Are atheists held to higher standards regarding mortal sin?

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Sanosuke:
Booger, I think that both of those arguments are self-defeating. šŸ™‚ I will give a few reasons.

First, neither of those arguments even consider that God does provide enough evidence to believe. It seems that if there are hard-core atheists who have converted to Christianity, then there is obviously enough evidence to reach theistic conclusions.
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There is no evidence, nor any logical proofs that support a god.

Additionally, if your claims had any truth to it, then why the need for faith?
Secondly, neither of those arguments acknowledge the fact that people can mold any evidence to fit their pre-determined worldview, or can just ignore the evidence altogether. The arguments against God that were just presented illustrate this fact perfectly. To put it simply in order to keep this thread on topic, both arguments show both/either a) a lack of understanding of the concept of free will and/or b) complete ignorance of the Christian position.
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Non sequiturs.

The point is that god has failed to prove his existence. You make the same old mistakeā€¦ blaming the recipients of the purported message, when you must blame the messanger. A perfect being cannot fail to send a message.

Think it over and youā€™ll see your blunder.
 
Thread drift:

To the person who sent the rep message: What makes you think Iā€™m an atheist???

And thanks for including me in your prayers. Itā€™s truly appreciated.
 
Hannibal, it is hardly a non-sequitur to point out that the proofs listed above fail to acknowledge important parts of Christian theology. Seeing your response about how a ā€œperfect being cannot fail to send a messageā€ only proves my point further.

At any rate, I digress. Our threadmaker has stated his wishes that we keep his thread on topic, and we should respect that.
Booger:
I can edit and remove them if you feel that it would be appropriate.
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Nah. I have always been against deleting parts of posts because it makes reading the thread more difficult. So going back to the topic, I think that atheists are individuals, and would therefore be judged as individuals. Judging any group of people (especially one with such a broad spectrum of people as atheism) constitutes stereotyping and unsubstantiated generalizing.
 
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Sanosuke:
Our threadmaker has stated his wishes that we keep his thread on topic, and we should respect that.
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Sorry, but some things are cracking my up today. I wonder how many people think Iā€™m a male atheist.

squirt, the female Catholic šŸ˜›
 
SANOSUKE

*If an atheist seeks God with all his being and never finds God, then God will surely have mercy on him. *

I cannot imagine that if an atheist sought God with all his being, he would not find Him. God does refuse the sincere seeker.

As to the typical atheist position that God has not proved his existence to us, the question I would like to ask atheists in this forum is what kind of proof they would accept? Would they accept a miracle? I doubt it. They would merely respond that somewhere somehow the event will be explained in natural terms.

Would they accept a logical argument? I doubt it. Because every argument to them must be rooted in the priciples of causality with which they are familiar. They cannot imagine that a higher order of Being and Intelligence exists anywhere outside the universe since their primary assumption is that the only realities are the realities of our senses subject to the scientific method. They therefore blind themselves to any possibilities beyond the world that is evident to them.

Atheists will tell you that they honestly do not believe, so how can they be guilty of sinning, mortal or otherwise? Sounds a little like Sadamā€™s conduct today. He told the judge he cannot be held to account because there is no authority higher than himself that he can honestly believe in. This is a rational dodge, a game that he can play in his own mind. Sooner or later, when the final crunch comes, he will have to stare into the Abyss, and will be overcome at last by the awareness that the Abyss is staring back at him. Every atheist will experience this moment when he comes to the end of his rope. He will know that he only fooled himself all along when he said he saw no evidence of God. If he has any heart left, he will beg for mercy. If he doesnā€™t, he is a fool in that he has fooled himself right to the end.

Yes, final atheism has to be mortal, because God never prevents us from knowing Him. We only prevent ourselves, and we have to be culpable for our own follies.
 
Carl, your latest post once more reveals your poor understanding of atheism. Comparing us to Sadam? Whoā€™s next? Hitler, Stalin, or Satan? Do you have some sort of personal vendetta against atheists? I am only going to say this once because we have strayed from the thread starterā€™s original question. If your God exists, then only he knows what evidence an atheist would consider sufficient, which of course would probably be different for each atheist, but He can handle that (if he exists).
 
I cannot imagine that if an atheist sought God with all his being, he would not find Him. God does refuse the sincere seeker.
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Carl why would an atheist seek God if he doesnā€™t believe in God in the first place? A content atheist feels no need to put aside his rational to look for God if he doesnā€™t even believe in God in the first place.
 
*16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to be its judge, but to be its savior. 18 Those who believe in the Son are not judged; but those who do not believe have already been judged, because they have not believed in Godā€™s only Son. 19 This is how the judgment works: the light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil. 20 Those who do evil things hate the light and will not come to the light, because they do not want their evil deeds to be shown up. 21 But those who do what is true come to the light in order that the light may show that what they did was in obedience to God. * Gospel of Joh Chapter 3

Now your dispute is not with Sadam and me, but with the Gospel of John

Good luck disproving John and the Holy Spirit who inspired him.

I still like the remark of an earlier poster (forgot his name) who said to the effect that if we do not want to see God, God will oblige us in the next life.
 
Carl said:
*16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to be its judge, but to be its savior. 18 Those who believe in the Son are not judged; but those who do not believe have already been judged, because they have not believed in Godā€™s only Son. 19 This is how the judgment works: the light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil. 20 Those who do evil things hate the light and will not come to the light, because they do not want their evil deeds to be shown up. 21 But those who do what is true come to the light in order that the light may show that what they did was in obedience to God. * Gospel of Joh Chapter 3
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hmmmm ā€¦ if we just go by the quote you provided, then those who believe are not judged at all ā€¦ a literal interpretation of this passage seems to go against orthodox Catholic teachings.
 
And then, of course, atheists can take on Jesus himself.

*ā€œWhen you come to a town or village, go in and look for someone who is willing to welcome you, and stay with him until you leave that place. When you go into a house, say, ā€˜Peace be with you.ā€™ If the people in that house welcome you, let your greeting of peace remain; but if they do not welcome you, then take back your greeting. And if some home or town will not welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet. I assure you that on the Judgment Day God will show more mercy to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah than to the people of that town!ā€ *
Matthew 10: 11-15
 
And we should let Saint Paul weigh in.

*I have complete confidence in the gospel; it is Godā€™s power to save all who believe, first the Jews and also the Gentiles. For the gospel reveals how God puts people right with himself: it is through faith from beginning to end. As the scripture says, ā€œThe person who is put right with God through faith shall live.ā€ Godā€™s anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of the people whose evil ways prevent the truth from being known.

God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself made it plain. Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all! They know God, but they do not give him the honor that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness. They say they are wise, but they are fools; instead of worshiping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortals or birds or animals or reptiles. And so God has given those people over to do the filthy things their hearts desire, and they do shameful things with each other. They exchange the truth about God for a lie; they worship and serve what God has created instead of the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever! Amen. Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts. In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing. Because those people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about God, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do. They are filled with all kinds of wickedness, evil, greed, and vice; they are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, deceit, and malice. They gossip and speak evil of one another; they are hateful to God, insolent, proud, and boastful; they think of more ways to do evil; they disobey their parents; they have no conscience; they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or pity for others. They know that Godā€™s law says that people who live in this way deserve death. Yet, not only do they continue to do these very things, but they even approve of others who do them. *

Romans 1:20
 
Carl,

Does any of this address directly whether or not atheism in and of itself meets all the criterion for mortal sin?

If so, how?

If not, what does this have to do with this thread?
 
Carl, your Bible verses are irrelevant. If you had a valid point, then you would make it.
 
The Bible clearly tells us that pagans (or atheists) will be judged by the natural lawā€¦
knowing what is good and bad and living accordingly. I believe itĀ“s as simple as that.
On the same token, we know GodĀ“s law, the path led by Jesus Christ; yet, do we all follow that path. I think not. So, judgement will hit us in one of two ways:
  1. Obedience to God.
    or
  2. NatureĀ“s Law
We need to observe ourselves as Christians, as well do Atheists need to observe themselves. Either way we have guidelines.
 
Carl quoting the Bible will not get you brownie points when arguing with an atheist.

ā€œ*Because those people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about God, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do. They are filled with all kinds of wickedness, evil, greed, and vice; they are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, deceit, and maliceā€

*That is a horrible thing for the Bible to say. Granted the Bible says alot of horrible things, but if you actually believe this Carl i feel sorry for your lack of power over your mind. I have the greatest deal of respect for Christians who uphold their faith without covering their ears when dealing with anything that contradicts the Bible. You however, are upholding irrational beliefs just because the Bible says so and that is quite sad.
 
Squirt,
I donā€™t know much about the Catholic religion, so I hope this doesnā€™t sound stupid. Can you apply your original question to Protestants? If so, then what? If not, then why?
 
DREDGETONE

That is a horrible thing for the Bible to say. Granted the Bible says alot of horrible things, but if you actually believe this Carl i feel sorry for your lack of power over your mind. I have the greatest deal of respect for Christians who uphold their faith without covering their ears when dealing with anything that contradicts the Bible. You however, are upholding irrational beliefs just because the Bible says so and that is quite sad.

The question before us is not what atheists believe, but what Catholics believe. We quote Jesus, Saint John, and Saint Paul, and instead of answering you insult Catholics by saying these things are awful things to say.

You are in a Catholic forum. Stop insulting Jesus, John, and Paul by accusing them of having said ā€œhorribleā€ things. If you continue this line of smear tactics I will complain to the administrators and write a personal letter of complaint to Karl Keating.
 
Carl, your Bible verses are irrelevant. If you had a valid point, then you would make it.

Why are they irrelevant? Your answer is lazy in the extreme. Flesh out your thoughts.
 
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