Are "bad thoughts" always sinful

[JJ1989]

Hi guys,
This is my first time i post a thread on the CatholicForum

Ive noticed many threads talking about “bad thoughts”. I just wanted to know what exactly are bad thoughts? I know wilfully entertaining sexual and blasphemous thoughts are sinful.

What if you write up short stories based on your imagination . This requiresyou dwell on ideas on how to make some of the characters behave, e.g. in violent or illegal ways. Would these thoughts be sinful at all? Its for entertainment only and they dont tempt you to specifically act that way in real life.

p.s. i have a creative imagination…hope its not sinful though

 

[Newbie2]

Good question.

I’ve been dabbling at comics for years and have had the same dilemma, how to make bad guys bad without myself, as creator of the cartoon, sinning myself.

I’m sure some playwrights and script writers have had the same dilemma. Bad guys take the Lord’s name in vain GD this and GD that. “Jesus Christ!”, F this and F that etc, etc.

Don’t have an answer myself, but I think the key lies in, perhaps as an example, the difference between the A&E (sanitized) and original HBO versions of The Sopranos. In both versions, you get that the gansters are bad guys. The dialogue serves the plot well enough. However, I have to admit that the original HBO version is “better”.

Part of that is what amounts to ridiculous editing, where “my friend”, “bloodsucker”, and other terms are substituted for the original dialogue…ridiculous because we know these bad guys wouldn’t be true to their charactors if they used such cleaned up language. That and the dubbing doesn’t always match the video seamlessly.

I don’t have any answers, other to say that as an author, one can use the imagination and the intelligence of the reader to fill in the blanks. The best example I’ve ever seen of this, at least in a movie, was in “The Sting”. He goes to the room of the woman late at night, she lets him in, and the next thing you see is him waking up alone in her bed the next morning. We know what happened. It would serve nothing to show, as they do in every single movie nowadays…sigh…the two of them sweating up the sheets. It adds nothing to the plot.

I guess that good authors take us where they want us to go, using our imaginations and their words to creatively tell a story, which can be of good or of evil.

 

[fbl9]

Hi guys,
This is my first time i post a thread on the CatholicForum

Ive noticed many threads talking about “bad thoughts”. I just wanted to know what exactly are bad thoughts? I know wilfully entertaining sexual and blasphemous thoughts are sinful.

What if you write up short stories based on your imagination . This requiresyou dwell on ideas on how to make some of the characters behave, e.g. in violent or illegal ways. Would these thoughts be sinful at all? Its for entertainment only and they dont tempt you to specifically act that way in real life.

p.s. i have a creative imagination…hope its not sinful though

A villian has to be a villian.Now if the villian is you in these thoughts then i will say it is sinful thinking.Becasue you are entertaining these thought for your own enjoyment.
Now if you are using these thoughts for writing to provide entertainment for others i would say that in it’s self is not sinful. With the cavet that the story promotes good over evil.

 

[JJ1989]

A villian has to be a villian.Now if the villian is you in these thoughts then i will say it is sinful thinking.Becasue you are entertaining these thought for your own enjoyment.

thats what i dont understand. well consider this, how can you watch a movie with a violent scene and not picture yourself as one or the other of the characters. you could imagine how it would be to throw the punches but its hypothetical. is that really sinful thinking?
and is it really mortal?

 

[fbl9]

fbl9;7306154:

A villian has to be a villian.Now if the villian is you in these thoughts then i will say it is sinful thinking.Becasue you are entertaining these thought for your own enjoyment.

thats what i dont understand. well consider this, how can you watch a movie with a violent scene and not picture yourself as one or the other of the characters. you could imagine how it would be to throw the punches but its hypothetical. is that really sinful thinking?
and is it really mortal?

It is because you are wanting to do harm to another person which goes against charity towards your nieghbour. For it to be mortal a sin must have grave matter.
In your example you are thinking If i were that character i would have did this or that, this in it’s is not necessarily sinful but can lead one to sin, later on in their thoughts in relating to others that have done you wrong.

 

[Bookcat]

Hi guys,
This is my first time i post a thread on the CatholicForum

Ive noticed many threads talking about “bad thoughts”. I just wanted to know what exactly are bad thoughts? I know wilfully entertaining sexual and blasphemous thoughts are sinful.

What if you write up short stories based on your imagination . This requiresyou dwell on ideas on how to make some of the characters behave, e.g. in violent or illegal ways. Would these thoughts be sinful at all? Its for entertainment only and they dont tempt you to specifically act that way in real life.

p.s. i have a creative imagination…hope its not sinful though

In the areas you noted…such creative thoughts can be fine. You are not willing to actually rob a bank or murder people nor approving those who are…or “dwelling” it seems in sinful way (like your into causing people pain or something…)

What you are doing sounds fine…just like “reading or watching fiction”. One must judge things of course it is not “anything goes” (just like we do not “get into” violence that is well…over the top…etc) (there are things I am going to skip over …or not read or watch…I am not going to write such etc either) Of course your confessor too can help you out on particulars.

Sexual matters of course are a “different story”.

 

[Abba]

Hello JJ1989, Welcome to CAF!

I would say to stay away and not entertain bad thoughts. Our thoughts elevates our soul and helps us to come close to God, when we go to Adoration, Mass and when we pray we transcend to Our Lord through our thoughts. That is to say, that we disconnect ourselves from the world through an effort of our thoughts.

I think that we have yet a lot more to learn about the human mind and our thought process. This brings to my mind what Our Lord Jesus said and I paraphrase; that is that we commit adultery by the simple act of looking at our neighbors wife/husband.

I think Satan can be subtle and I would say; I forget the name of the Saint who said something like: Run away from places of sins as if from the plague! Your mind and thoughts are important vehicles that will lead you to a closer union with God and I would say that you need to protect it.

When I was a little girl, my grandmother taught me that the human mind is capable of thinking all sorts of thoughts and if ever in my life I had bad thoughts not to entertain them and to do a small sign of the cross on the center of my forehead, saying: “Lord, deliver me from bad thoughts” and this has helped me and saved me. So, if a bad thought enter your mind you do this exercise and simply do not entertain the thought and it goes away.

In the morning we offer our days labor, sufferings, etc… to Our Lord. We want to bring the light of Christ into the World and you need to ask yourself if via the way your are thinking is the best use of the talent God has given you.

Romans 2

15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

Again, our thoughts are an important vehicle in our spiritual lives and you want to keep it clean. Perhaps, your conscience is sending you a message?

Many great artists put to good use their talents without perverting their minds. Now, take form example Micheal Angelo. In the sistine chapel he painted evil people/or people who committed evil and they are clearly shown to be ugly and the bad guys. But, I am sure that he did not indulge in the perception of evildoers but instead with the intent to bring the light of Jesus to the world painted them and through the christian understaning.

I think it is a challenge to be a genuine Catholic artist but, it is what the people yearn for. It fulfills their hunger. The mass seems to want violence because they have been fed violence to the point that they want things to be more violent. It’s like to a degree, they have become immune to the violence, perversion etc… and it takes more to get their attention. But, I am of the belief that that kind of entertainment is trash and not what the people really want.

I would suggest that you do a search in Newadvent, Bible, Holy See and read about what the fathers of the Church thought about bad thoughts. Keep in mind that the reason why the power of positive thinking works, or day dreaming is - I believe - because the mind does not clearly…distinguishes from what is make believe and what is real when presented with information. And, the impact on the heart and soul is the same, rather is make believe or not. Take for example, a person that accepts abuse willingly for the sake of another. The impact is often the same on the emotions and psychy of the person rather the abuse was accepted willingly or not. The mind does not make amends.

I was just reading a Brown University magazine ( I have not read the article yet, ) (well, I looked for it but I did not find it right away), anywho, on the front page is the Director of the I Arts and Media department (whatever the name of the department is) well, he is a playwright and is planning to make movies and plays based on the Stories of the Catholic Saints. Now, that’s what I call putting good talent to good use.

What sayest thou?

Hope this helps.

To answer the question, I would say so if we entertain them. But, we can artistically depict evil without having to, because of your predisposition.

Peace,
Abba

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Hi guys,
This is my first time i post a thread on the CatholicForum

Ive noticed many threads talking about “bad thoughts”. I just wanted to know what exactly are bad thoughts? I know wilfully entertaining sexual and blasphemous thoughts are sinful.

What if you write up short stories based on your imagination . This requiresyou dwell on ideas on how to make some of the characters behave, e.g. in violent or illegal ways. Would these thoughts be sinful at all? Its for entertainment only and they dont tempt you to specifically act that way in real life.

p.s. i have a creative imagination…hope its not sinful though

Greetings! So do I!

It would be difficult for me to not get into specifics but I think a good start would be to know the difference between fiction and fact. If you are capable of distinguishing yourself from your characters and your story, then you can probably discern well on your own from that point.

It’s a shame that religious people often times sacrifice rationality when it comes to the art of creative fiction. When you write, you are not every single character you create. As a matter of fact, you’re more likely to only have one character in a story that resembles you. (At least, that’s as far as my own experience as a rookie writer XD). The other characters could be based on your family, your friends, your enemies, or they could be just made up entirely.

As a matter of fact, have you ever heard of caricature? Plenty times in political propaganda, an author would distort the images of people he/she viciously disliked or disagreed with by depicting heavily misconstrued fictional versions of them. Now obviously, for something like that to be even successful, the author should be as different as possible from the person they are mocking right?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think it is a challenge to be a genuine Catholic artist but, it is what the people yearn for. It fulfills their hunger. The mass seems to want violence because they have been fed violence to the point that they want things to be more violent. It’s like to a degree, they have become immune to the violence, perversion etc… and it takes more to get their attention. But, I am of the belief that that kind of entertainment is trash and not what the people really want.

Yet the Bible is not shy of describing the violence done to the enemies of God’s people. I’m sure the ancient Jews loved reading about how David struck down Goliath and severed the giant’s head and after which, he was still holding it when he was presented before Saul. In fact, I’m a little amazed at how such simple verses could already bring forth graphic images.

Violence in fiction is morally neutral. What matters is the ethics behind the violence and how it is portrayed. Senseless killing of the innocent is bad and hence, merits a negative portrayal.

On the other hand though, it’s only fitting for a struggle between the forces of good and evil to be portrayed as intense, dynamic, and full of dangers. And as for the climax, a fitting and dramatic end for the villain would only make it perfect.

Anything less would only demean the struggle. If a conflict is simply solved ‘just like that’ then it would create a false illusion that all trials against darkness are easy, effortless, and meager.

In other words, you’re just expressing an arrogant attitude that demeans the efforts of those who actually know that struggle.

I would suggest that you do a search in Newadvent, Bible, Holy See and read about what the fathers of the Church thought about bad thoughts. Keep in mind that the reason why the power of positive thinking works, or day dreaming is - I believe - because the mind does not clearly…distinguishes from what is make believe and what is real when presented with information.

I’m afraid you have it in reverse. Being unable to tell fantasy from reality is NOT the mark of a sane human being. Why else would you think that when the three children of Fatima saw the apparition, everyone thought they had gone bonkers?

Unless of course you are referring to the New Age hoohah about the subconscious mind knowing no distinction and all that hullabaloo.

And, the impact on the heart and soul is the same, rather is make believe or not. Take for example, a person that accepts abuse willingly for the sake of another. The impact is often the same on the emotions and psychy of the person rather the abuse was accepted willingly or not. The mind does not make amends.

Sorry but this statement makes neither grammatical or comprehensive sense.

To answer the question, I would say so if we entertain them. But, we can artistically depict evil without having to, because of your predisposition.

The authors of the Bible themselves weren’t capable of holding back the details regarding persecution, sacrilege, and infanticide.

 

[Sheeps]

why would someone use hardcore foul words in the first place anyway?

if you use such tough words in your creation, it only hurts you and the readers.
You are much aware that this work is to be published publicly and children of any age and everyone else would probably be influenced or add it up in their line of thinking that

“oh, the character jus said” F" … anyways, its normal… "

and everything follows.
there is always an alternative and all depends on you to decide if which of it to use. you know the Gospel anyway, so its not a big problem.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

if you use such tough words in your creation, it only hurts you and the readers.
You are much aware that this work is to be published publicly and children of any age and everyone else would probably be influenced or add it up in their line of thinking that

Old argument. There’s a reason why people invented the word “demographic” and rate their works according to appropriate ages.

 

[Abba]

In other words, you’re just expressing an arrogant attitude that demeans the efforts of those who actually know that struggle.

You have some nerves calling me arrogant. Why do you do that? Is it because that’s what people call you? I personally do not care about your success as a writer and all your worldly wisdom. I responded to this thread out of my concern for the salvation of the soul of the OP.

Yet the Bible is not shy of describing the violence done to the enemies of God’s people…
The authors of the Bible themselves weren’t capable of holding back the details regarding persecution, sacrilege, and infanticide.

Who is talking about the details?

I’m afraid you have it in reverse. Being unable to tell fantasy from reality is NOT the mark of a sane human being. Why else would you think that when the three children of Fatima saw the apparition, everyone thought they had gone bonkers?

You obviously missed the point. I am not talking about insanity nor specifically hallucinations.

Unless of course you are referring to the New Age hoohah about the subconscious mind knowing no distinction and all that hullabaloo.

You missed the boat. But, since you are a genius, I’ll let you figure it out.

Sorry but this statement makes neither grammatical or comprehensive sense.

I am not the most eloquent person and grammar is not one of my strong points. I use language to communicate my thoughts and it does not come natural for me, since it bothers you so much, please just skip my posts.

Thank you,

Abba

---

The entertainment industry is the least of my concerns right now. I think that if we follow the impulse and desires of the mass we would soon find ourselves renovating the coliseum in Rome and putting it back to old use.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You have some nerves calling me arrogant. Why do you do that? Is it because that’s what people call you? I personally do not care about your success as a writer and all your worldly wisdom. I responded to this thread out of my concern for the salvation of the soul of the OP.

You accuse me of misreading yet you don’t sound like someone capable of reading in context. Read my words again. I didn’t call you of anything. Why so defensive?

Who is talking about the details?

You claim that one can depict evil without having to so as long as one has your so-called ‘disposition’ (which in of itself is something you have only presented as obscure at best). Tell me, why haven’t the authors of the Bible followed your advice hm? They’ve depicted evil as graphically and violently as possible. The same thing with the violence done against the enemies of God.

You obviously missed the point. I am not talking about insanity nor specifically hallucinations.

No, you are making the claim that a human is actually incapable of telling fiction from fact. Unfortunately, people’s initial reactions towards claims about visions and apparitions have a different story.

You missed the boat. But, since you are a genius, I’ll let you figure it out.

Not even a genius can catch a boat that sinks before it even leaves port.

I am not the most eloquent person and grammar is not one of my strong points. I use language to communicate my thoughts and it does not come natural for me, since it bothers you so much, please just skip my posts.

You’re right that it indeed bothers me but you’re wrong if I’m going to ignore your posts because you’re giving advice to someone who has something far more in common with me than someone who neither has good communication skills or literary expertise.

The entertainment industry is the least of my concerns right now. I think that if we follow the impulse and desires of the mass we would soon find ourselves renovating the coliseum in Rome and putting it back to old use.

False dichotomy. What do you have against entertainment and why do you craft strawmen against that those who enjoy by reducing them to members of the mindless, carnal “mass”?

You’d be surprised at how those desires can be philosophized.

 

[Abba]

Not even a genius can catch a boat that sinks before it even leaves port.

I am barking up your tree. I guess it can get a little uncomfortable there as I am attacking your God. It’s nice to follow Jesus when it is convenient and we do not have to sacrifice anything. I think that it is even better when we need to make sacrifices. Are they really sacrifices? I do not know. I don’t know if I would necessarily call a sacrifice the loss of some baggage which opens the way to a closer union with Our Lord Jesus.

I hit a nerve of yours there, much like the one Jesus hit with the rich young man.

Matthew 19:16-24
The Rich and the Kingdom of God
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’**”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

The rich young man walked away, but, you want to lash out and attack and take the OP with you.

You are not even allowing for a discussion to take place, you are just being defensive and possessive of the OP. The OP asked the question in a Catholic Forum and I think that he is seeking the Catholic answer not the answer from a self proclaimed artist in the Philippines. Just because you are an artist does not make your answer correct.

Isn’t that something! Jesus invited the rich young man to follow him. What an invitation!

Peace,

Abba**

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I am barking up your tree. I guess it can get a little uncomfortable there as I am attacking your God. It’s nice to follow Jesus when it is convenient and we do not have to sacrifice anything. I think that it is even better when we need to make sacrifices. Are they really sacrifices? I do not know. I don’t know if I would necessarily call a sacrifice the loss of some baggage which opens the way to a closer union with Our Lord Jesus.

Actually, if anyone had his nerves struck it was you. So instead of addressing the points about violence in the Bible, your words about knowing fantasy from fiction, and pretty much everything that qualifies a rebuttal, you resort to a condescending rant about how I worship the entertainment industry and are ‘full of baggage’ simply because I challenged your sacred cow of obscure, non-conformist mysticism.

You are not even allowing for a discussion to take place, you are just being defensive and possessive of the OP. The OP asked the question in a Catholic Forum and I think that he is seeking the Catholic answer not the answer from a self proclaimed artist in the Philippines. Just because you are an artist does not make your answer correct.

Tell me, why won’t you answer my points? There is violence in the Bible, both on the side of the antagonists. I ask you simple questions regarding violence in the Bible and took you up to defend your claim that the human mind actually can’t know fantasy from reality. That is already a discussion, contrary to what you claim.

Oh and that last bit clearly tells me the sort of ‘logic’ you subscribe to. Yes indeed, if a professional football player were to ask for similar advice regarding his profession, your advice as a oh-so-holy Catholic matters more than let’s say, a coach or a fellow player. Yes indeed, forget all those worldly notions of knowing about a subject before speaking on it. Being holy is enough.

Just ask the Pharisees.

Forgive me if I find Socrates more enlightening when he advised people only to speak of things where they are wise. I may be a rookie but I am far from self-proclaimed. I’ve studied under prominent writers of my country and have had my work already critiqued by them. Don’t think I don’t know my stuff.