Are Black people cursed?

[ModernCatholic]

Hi! I am a young black Catholic male and am wondering if black people are cursed. Firstly, I have (thankfully) never been on the receiving end of direct racism but have been exposed to these types of ideas through the internet. I believe as an intellectual Catholic it is important to have clear stances on these issues. I traditionally have always believed that Catholicism had an answer to everything and I believe that if I were to refuse to look into this, I would be a hypocrite. I am expecting to have a logical and mature discussion about this. No one needs to feel like they should hold back their opinions because it may offend me as I am in a good mental state and care more about truth than what I want to be true; so I am willing to accept whatever is true. I believe that it is important for me to know if my dark skin is a curse because then I can understand why and see what I can do about it.

What the Church says about this is kind of confusing to me. I am aware that there isn’t and never has been any Church doctrine that has taught this but it hasn’t been rejected either (and like I said earlier, apparently one Pope believed this too). Technically this is a “racist idea” but not to confuse with any prejudgements of what racism is. Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. I am aware that the Church teaches that racism is an intrinsic evil because it takes away the inherent dignity that every human has because everyone was created in God’s image. However, this theory doesn’t contradict that as it says that although everyone was created with equal dignity and in the image of God, some people have lost that same dignity and it shows through the darkness of their skin. This would mean that we (blacks) would have lost our dignity and cannot reflect the image of God as best as lighter skinned people can. And there is also the whole thing about Blessed Anne Marie who claims to have seen it happen.

Apparently, some believe that black skin was the curse given to Ham by Noah after he saw his father naked. Another is that this was the Mark of Cain that Cain received after murdering his brother. Another is that in early Biblical times, Blacks (or the people who became black) had much power and conquered everyone unjustly so God cursed them and the rest of history was basically turned opposite. What these theories have in common is that they both have to do with being punished for a certain sin. What perplexes me is why a whole big chunk of the world would have to suffer because of these very early humans’ faults but maybe it’s the same type of thing as original sin, how we are all affected by the first sin of the first humans. I also don’t understand how or why Noah would have a black, white, and tan son all directly from his blood.

I am filled with much confusion so can someone please tell me if Black people are or aren’t cursed and if they aren’t, I need full theological proof. Thanks

 

[ModernCatholic]

This idea of Blacks being cursed is one that isn’t very recent. Apparently, a Pope at one point gave a special indulgence to the people of Ethiopia and neighbouring regions, “that they may disinherit the curse put on them by Ham” and a Blessed of the Church (Anne Marie) said that she had visions of the moment and saw in great detail when their bodies started becoming black, starting from the face; until them and all their descendants became fully black on their whole bodies. This idea seems to me to be the perfect explanation of all the negative parts of the “black experience”. We are considered by many to be less beautiful, have much less variation (in eye colour, hair colour, and hair texture), have “less advanced” societies, have much fighting between each other in Africa (I know not all blacks are African. I, for one am Jamaican but still black but I believe my ancestry most likely traces back to Africa), possibly have lower IQ’s (I have some problems with the current concept of IQ and IQ testing but there is a lower average IQ score with blacks than with other races), were the go to people for cheap slaves, were segregated against and said not to have souls, etc; but perhaps most troubling is that we haven’t been known to be very religously Catholic or Jew (Catholicism and Judaism have always been seen as “white mans’ religions”. Even if we had nothing, we would have everything with God but now apparently we didn’t have that either. It is said that Jesus came among the least of us but if he really was white like everyone pictures him then that can’t have been true.

It doesn’t really help me believe otherwise when almost everything that is considered pure and holy must be white. The lyrics to the popular song “Save Your People” features the part where it says that we “shall be whiter than snow” and it has always been that the light dispels the darkness—it seems the only logical way to complete this analogy would be to admit that since dark is bad, black people are worse. There are some positive associations with black people, however, like in Songs of Solomon where it talks about being “black but beautiful” (but it is still “black ‘but’ beautiful”). In this instance, blackness is seen as a good thing because things turn black when they are closer to the sun and to the light. The prophet Miriam criticizes Moses for having a Cushite wife (most likely because of skin tone).

 

[ModernCatholic]

It is possible that when Christ died for our sins, the curse was lifted (if there ever was one) but if blackness was a curse than the black skin would be changed back (which didn’t happen). However, the effects of original sin still stayed when Christ died on the Cross (such as death, sickness, birth pains, etc.). This is an important thing to me because if being black really was a curse then that would mean that in heaven our skin would be made white “again” since we will worship God eternally with our bodies. Our bodies are pleasing to him and if this was true then what would be most pleasing to him would be for our skin to be lighter. I also always hear the argument that since Jesus Christ was perfect, then he must have been white with blue eyes and blonde hair since that is seen as perfection to many. That would also mean that it would be sacrilegious to paint Jesus with dark skin as that would be somehow cursing him.

 

[MCH1]

Lets unpack this

I believe that it is important for me to know if my dark skin is a curse because then I can understand why and see what I can do about it.

OK, reasonable.

What the Church says about this is kind of confusing to me. I am aware that there isn’t and never has been any Church doctrine that has taught this but it hasn’t been rejected either (and like I said earlier, apparently one Pope believed this too). Technically this is a “racist idea” but not to confuse with any prejudgements of what racism is. Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. I am aware that the Church teaches that racism is an intrinsic evil because it takes away the inherent dignity that every human has because everyone was created in God’s image. However, this theory doesn’t contradict that as it says that although everyone was created with equal dignity and in the image of God, some people have lost that same dignity and it shows through the darkness of their skin. This would mean that we (blacks) would have lost our dignity and cannot reflect the image of God as best as lighter skinned people can. And there is also the whole thing about Blessed Anne Marie who claims to have seen it happen.

Some catholics, even saints, thought that unbaptized babies went to hell. Because a pope believed something doesn’t make it true.

Apparently, some believe that black skin was the curse given to Ham by Noah after he saw his father naked. Another is that this was the Mark of Cain that Cain received after murdering his brother. Another is that in early Biblical times, Blacks (or the people who became black) had much power and conquered everyone unjustly so God cursed them and the rest of history was basically turned opposite. What these theories have in common is that they both have to do with being punished for a certain sin. What perplexes me is why a whole big chunk of the world would have to suffer because of these very early humans’ faults but maybe it’s the same type of thing as original sin, how we are all affected by the first sin of the first humans. I also don’t understand how or why Noah would have a black, white, and tan son all directly from his blood.

Forgive me for sounding racist here, but each race has it’s own vice.
Europeans tend to be power hungry, Asians get caught up in advancement and care little for individual human lives. Now I do not say all people have these problems, they are a cultural thing. They were likely caused by some incidents involving a few people that have “cursed” their descendants. Could something like this have happened to Africans? Sure.

This idea of Blacks being cursed is one that isn’t very recent. Apparently, a Pope at one point gave a special indulgence to the people of Ethiopia and neighbouring regions, “that they may disinherit the curse put on them by Ham”

Good. I wish someone had removed the “curses” that cause evils in other races.

See below:

 

[MCH1]

a Blessed of the Church (Anne Marie) said that she had visions of the moment and saw in great detail when their bodies started becoming black, starting from the face; until them and all their descendants became fully black on their whole bodies.

The curse of blackness is preferable to the curse of power hunger.

were the go to people for cheap slaves, were segregated against and said not to have souls

Again, power hungry caucasions did all that.

but perhaps most troubling is that we haven’t been known to be very religously Catholic or Jew (Catholicism and Judaism have always been seen as “white mans’ religions”.

It simply originated among whites.

he lyrics to the popular song “Save Your People” features the part where it says that we “shall be whiter than snow” and it has always been that the light dispels the darkness—it seems the only logical way to complete this analogy would be to admit that since dark is bad, black people are worse. There are some positive associations with black people, however, like in Songs of Solomon where it talks about being “black but beautiful” (but it is still “black ‘but’ beautiful”). In this instance, blackness is seen as a good thing because things turn black when they are closer to the sun and to the light.

A song? Relax.

The prophet Miriam criticizes Moses for having a Cushite wife (most likely because of skin tone).

Maybe because his wife a pagan? Not “one of them”?

Be content with your “curse” of black skin. Other races have worse traits.

 

[Trishie]

Absolutely not! Black people are not cursed
You are aware that Jesus was not white, He was of a more middle eastern heritage, therefore darker skinned, drawing his skin color from His Jewish Mother?
An individual and personal punishment does do not extrapolate to include all those whose skins are darker or very dark.
It is a result of geography, where a person’s people mostly lived
and the reaction of the skin to centuries of exposure to the sun, or a general lack of sufficient sun exposure
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence...r-variation/modern-human-diversity-skin-color

http://www.naturallyhealthyskin.org/anatomy-of-the-skin/what-determines-skin-colour/

http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask288

There are many links you can follow.

Please be at peace.

 

[ModernCatholic]

So do you believe that the story of Ham being associated with black people may be true but it isn’t a bad thing as other curses? I think that it would be a very severe curse as we are meant to worship God with our bodies. We can change our souls and intentions and get rid of evil desires such as power hungriness but if blackness was a curse than that would mean that when God looks at us, he would be less content since it isn’t how he created things and wanted things to be. This would also mean that to get to heaven, all black people and just people, in general, would actually be made “whiter than snow”.

 

[ModernCatholic]

Thanks for your reply! I am aware of the physical reason why Black people are darker but what I am saying is that God could have put all those scientific rules and reasoning in place in order to fulfil the theology behind it. It’s kind of like telling a child that a baby is the love between a mommy and a daddy versus explaining the birds and the bees and technical stuff and all that.

 

[MCH1]

So do you believe that the story of Ham being associated with black people may be true

It maybe.

it isn’t a bad thing as other curses?

Yes.

I think that it would be a very severe curse as we are meant to worship God with our bodies. We can change our souls and intentions and get rid of evil desires such as power hungriness but if blackness was a curse than that would mean that when God looks at us, he would be less content since it isn’t how he created things and wanted things to be.

You are overthinking this. Blacks appearing unbecoming to whites is not all that bad. Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder. What to Europeans is a curse of ugliness, may not even be a problem to blacks.

This would also mean that to get to heaven, all black people and just people, in general, would actually be made “whiter than snow”.

Who knows? Maybe the “true” color of people was green, and curses made people the colors they are today. The soul is what God looks at, not the appearence. An deformed person with no face but a clean sprirt would be more pleasing to God than someone with a face but a dirty soul.

 

[Greenfields]

Short but direct answer …no.All people are equel in everything.

 

[MCH1]

All people are equel in everything.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Sorry, couldn’t resist.

 

[ModernCatholic]

Ok… I am not satisfied with the answer “maybe” because accepting this belief would come with many different implications. For one, black people would have to be “servants of servants” which basically condones racial slavery. We would essentially not be of equal in dignity and capacity to think about or love God. And we wouldn’t be able to see the image of God and the beauty of the human body in ourselves but would have to look towards others and pray for lighter skin. We couldn’t be comfortable in our own skins and would never be able to do the same things in the Church as or lighter skin brothers and sisters and would never achieve a high place in heaven. I don’t think that this issue is something that should be taken lightly as it has serious consequences.

 

[guanophore]

I am a young black Catholic male and am wondering if black people are cursed. Firstly, I have (thankfully) never been on the receiving end of direct racism but have been exposed to these types of ideas through the internet.

After studying the history of slavery in North America, one could certainly believe this is the case. But Black people are no more cursed than any of the rest of us. I think you need to spend more time studying your faith, rather than reading such drivel on the internet!

I am willing to accept whatever is true

What is puzzling is why you would think that this could be true?

I believe that it is important for me to know if my dark skin is a curse because then I can understand why and see what I can do about it.

Science has determined that all human beings originated in Africa, and therefore, all of our ancestors were Black. As humanity moved North there was less sunlight available and the human skin adapted to absorb more light.

https://www.nature.com/news/1998/001207/full/news001207-8.html

This means Adam and Eve were Black. God created them and called them “Good”.

As far as doing anything about being cursed, all curses over you were broken at your Baptism. Jesus bore all of our curses in His body on the cross.

I am aware that there isn’t and never has been any Church doctrine that has taught this but it hasn’t been rejected either

Of course it has. Did you not realize that the whole New Testament was written by, for, and about Catholics? Have you found anything in the NT that supports the ridiculous claim that you are cursed because of Ham?

I am aware that the Church teaches that racism is an intrinsic evil because it takes away the inherent dignity that every human has because everyone was created in God’s image.

If you know this, then how can you also say that the Church has not rejected it? I don’t see how it can be made more clear?

However, this theory doesn’t contradict that as it says that although everyone was created with equal dignity and in the image of God, some people have lost that same dignity and it shows through the darkness of their skin.

I will wait for you to provide a source for this. Losing our communion with God through the Fall is not equivalent to losing the dignity of being made in the image and likeness of God. Humans were not “unmade”. Sin, and the consequences of sin (“curse”) do not unmake what He has made.

 

[MCH1]

Ok… I am not satisfied with the answer may be because accepting this belief would come with many different implications. For one, black people would have to be “servants of servants” which basically condones racial slavery.

I never said Africans are cursed, merely said it is possible that all races have some curse. I said nothing about slavery…

We would essentially not be of equal in dignity and capacity to think about or love God. And we wouldn’t be able to see the image of God and the beauty of the human body in ourselves but would have to look towards others and pray for lighter skin.

Jesus took on our humanity. He became a Jew. Jews have skin that is about a mix of black and white. So He took on all skin colors.

We couldn’t be comfortable in our own skins and would never be able to do the same things in the Church as or lighter skin brothers and sisters and would never achieve a high place in heaven.

Not at all! Do you think that those you undergo plastic surgery have the highest place in Heaven?

I don’t think that this issue is something that should be taken lightly as it has serious consequences.

Again, I never said it was true for sure. I said it was possible.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

If you are talking about this post, it was a joke from Animal Farm.

 

[guanophore]

This would mean that we (blacks) would have lost our dignity and cannot reflect the image of God as best as lighter skinned people can.

It is such nonsense to read this I am having trouble taking it seriously. It would also mean that what God created and pronounced “good” was somehow “lost”. That would mean that whatever a human could do to unmake what God made makes humans more powerful than God.

And there is also the whole thing about Blessed Anne Marie who claims to have seen it happen.

This is not a teaching of the Church.

Apparently, some believe that black skin was the curse given to Ham by Noah after he saw his father naked.

Do you find any biblical support for this view?

Oppressors use the passage about Ham being a slave to support the practice of slavery.

24 When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,

“Cursed be Canaan;
a slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers.”

26 He also said,

“Blessed by the Lord my God be Shem;
and let Canaan be his slave.
27 God enlarge Japheth,
and let him dwell in the tents of Shem;
and let Canaan be his slave.” Gen. 9

There is nothing here about the color of anyone’s skin.

Another is that this was the Mark of Cain that Cain received after murdering his brother.

Another imaginative insertion into the text, which says nothing about skin color - used to justify injustice to Black people.

Another is that in early Biblical times, Blacks (or the people who became black) had much power and conquered everyone unjustly so God cursed them and the rest of history was basically turned opposite.

Do you have any Biblical support for this view?

 

[Greenfields]

I’ve studied that book back in school.
I think a mature answer is called for MCH1.

 

[guanophore]

What these theories have in common is that they both have to do with being punished for a certain sin.

Which is why they are all irrelevant, since Jesus paid the price for our sins on the cross.

What perplexes me is why a whole big chunk of the world would have to suffer because of these very early humans’ faults but maybe it’s the same type of thing as original sin, how we are all affected by the first sin of the first humans.

I am glad this perplexes you, because it is irrational. Original sin has afflicted all of humanity, from our very Black ancestors Adam and Eve to the present, every race and color. Jesus came and died on the cross to free us from the slavery of sin.

Deuteronomy 24:16 “The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Jeremiah 31:30 But every one shall die for his own sin; each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

I am filled with much confusion so can someone please tell me if Black people are or aren’t cursed and if they aren’t, I need full theological proof.

I fear that, if you cannot accept what is in the Catechism and the Scriptures themselves, I don’t know what “theological proof” would suffice

(Catholicism and Judaism have always been seen as “white mans’ religions”.

I don’t know why. The Ethiopian church is older than the Roman/Latin and all the European “white” Catholics. Jesus was a Jew, a Palestinian, and He fled into Egypt, where he grew up in safety surrounded by other people of color. All the Apostles were Palestinian, and the followers of Christ were first called “Christians” in Antioch of Syria.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

What did Jesus really look like? - BBC News

You tell me, does this representation of the average Palestinian Jew 2000 years ago look “white”?

 

[MCH1]

I think a mature answer is called for MCH1.

I wrote several long answers stating my view on the matter. A little humor never hurt anybody.

 

[Greenfields]

And I respected you enough not to add humour about your post .God bless.

 

[MCH1]

Sorry, no offense was meant.