Are cafeteria Catholics a different religion since they hold to a different definition of what it means to be Catholic?

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livingwordunity said:
If that’s what you want to do then I can’t agree with you. Did you not know that we are all sinners, but not all are heretics?
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ok, ok… then define those cafeteria catholics as Heretics, and expel them All. we’ll need an Inquisition.
 
Fairwinds,

Here’s what I said in post #7:
livingwordunity said:
I’m not trying to kick anyone out. I asked an objective question that is reasonable considering the apparent contradiction of claiming to be Catholic while having a contradictory definition of what it means to be Catholic…I did some research since starting this thread, and although it’s not possible for someone who was validly baptized to lose the mark of baptism, it is possible for someone to no longer be considered a Catholic although this requires extreme measures and conditions which combine a valid juridical act with an interior apostasy or heresy from the faith. So the answer to my OP question is basically no since even though the person may have apostatized in beliefs, they continue to receive the sacraments and did not combine their apostasy of beliefs with a formal juridical act of defection.
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I think Fairwinds may be pulling your leg!! Seriously, anyone who is Catholic is always Catholic. no matter what… Speaking form personal experience, I fell away for many years and did not practice the faith at all, due to personal sin, of course. However, if someone asked me what was my religion, I always said “Catholic”. throught he grace of God and possibly the many prayers of my relatives, living and dead, I had a reawakening to the faith, and never looked back again. I LOVE my Catholic church, and thank God for our savior Jesus Christ. I love all the teachings of the church, not just the ones I like. I love that my conscience has reawakened and I love being able to go to daily Mass, Eucharistic Adoration and share my faith with anyone who asks (and , someimte, with those who don’t exactly ask, but are sending out some type of signal, IMHO). thank God that no one “kicked me out”. Cafeteria Catholics need our prayers and support and dialog at every opportunity. Let’s not give up on any of our Catholics, even those who are lost in darkness at the present time…
 
Used2beSherryG said:
I think Fairwinds may be pulling your leg!! Seriously, anyone who is Catholic is always Catholic. no matter what… Speaking form personal experience, I fell away for many years and did not practice the faith at all, due to personal sin, of course. However, if someone asked me what was my religion, I always said “Catholic”. throught he grace of God and possibly the many prayers of my relatives, living and dead, I had a reawakening to the faith, and never looked back again. I LOVE my Catholic church, and thank God for our savior Jesus Christ. I love all the teachings of the church, not just the ones I like. I love that my conscience has reawakened and I love being able to go to daily Mass, Eucharistic Adoration and share my faith with anyone who asks (and , someimte, with those who don’t exactly ask, but are sending out some type of signal, IMHO). thank God that no one “kicked me out”. Cafeteria Catholics need our prayers and support and dialog at every opportunity. Let’s not give up on any of our Catholics, even those who are lost in darkness at the present time…
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I think I now realize that. But it’s very hard to comprehend. Maybe because I only have human reasoning and not God’s insight into it.
 
I think that if Catholics who dissent on different issues were to leave the Church, there wouldn’t be much of a Church left. For instance, polls have shown that over 90% of American Catholics use a form of birth control that is prohibited by the Church. And yet, most people take Communion at Mass.

Likewise, utilizing the Sacrament of Confession has dropped to practically nothing. Yet, most people attending Mass take Communion. Are all these Communicants strictly worthy in thought, opinion and deed?

In the very end, it is going to be each soul before God. Hopefully, He is merciful and understanding. I believe that He is.
 
marimagi said:
I think that if Catholics who dissent on different issues were to leave the Church, there wouldn’t be much of a Church left. For instance, polls have shown that over 90% of American Catholics use a form of birth control that is prohibited by the Church. And yet, most people take Communion at Mass.

Likewise, utilizing the Sacrament of Confession has dropped to practically nothing. Yet, most people attending Mass take Communion. Are all these Communicants strictly worthy in thought, opinion and deed?

In the very end, it is going to be each soul before God. Hopefully, He is merciful and understanding. I believe that He is.
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The question of whether or not someone is excommunicated and should not receive Holy Communion is a different subject that the OP of this thread which deals with whether or not they are still considered Catholic. Off topic, your faith is described as “Catholic and Orthodox”. Do you mean Catholic and orthodox (small “o”)?
 
livingwordunity said:
Your faith is described as “Catholic and Orthodox”. Do you mean Catholic and orthodox (small “o”)?
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I should probably change it to Roman Catholic only. But I was also Chrismated in the Orthodox Church and know that there is so much truth there as well, I can’t deny it completely. I am a practicing Catholic and have been for almost 40 years.
 
With all due respect, relativity is destroying our Church. The Church is absolutely a hospital for sinners BUT if we do not acknowledge that sin is sin, then who will be healed?
 
They aren’t a different religion, they’re just [depending on the person - the term seems to range from ‘disagrees with most dogma of the Church but still goes to Mass’ to ‘in line with doctrine, but still some stuff not on the same page’ and everything in between] somewhat misguided.
 
livingwordunity said:
I only asked the question. I didn’t call for them to be kicked out. Are we not allowed to ever ask questions? Jesus said we have to beware of false prophets who will be among us and who will try to lead us astray. How are we to beware of this if we don’t ask questions when someone claims that seeking an abortion and believing in so-called “same-sex marriage” is compatible with being Catholic?
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Either people around here are a little edgy or I am not stating my thoughts clearly, for which I apologize. I did not mean to infer that you were advocating this position, but was merely extending the idea out to where some would like it to go.

If someone holds a position that is contrary to the teaching of the Church, or to what I believe is right and proper, I say let them be. Each person has the right to think and say what they want, and we will have to answer to God for what we say and do. But trying to force others to accept another position is a different matter. That is the false prophet Jesus is talking about, one who tries to influence or manipulate the morals of others, not just hold a contrary position.

Similarly, the Church presents its teachings and its doctrines and expects its members to follow them. But it can’t really do much beyond that, at least not in this age. It can inform and warn us about the false prophets amongst us, but the Church cannot prevent those false prophets from speaking.
 
“Your fidelity to the Church still needs you to stand strong against the hypocrisies that result from a closed and sick heart. But your main task isn’t to build walls but bridges. It is to establish a dialogue with all persons, even those who don’t share the Christian faith but “who cultivate outstanding qualities of the human spirit” and even with “those who oppress the Church and harass her in manifold ways. … Through dialogue it is always possible to get closer to the truth, which is a gift of God, and to enrich one another.” Pope Francis reiterated that dialogue means “being convinced that the other has something good to say, making room for their point of view, their opinion, their proposals, without falling, of course, into relativism. For dialogue [to exist] it is necessary to lower the defences and open the doors.”
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-Pope Francis
 
Prodigal Son1,

The purpose of this thread was to seek understanding about what the Church teaches about this. It has nothing to do with burning bridges.
 
chaunceygardner said:
Either people around here are a little edgy or I am not stating my thoughts clearly, for which I apologize. I did not mean to infer that you were advocating this position, but was merely extending the idea out to where some would like it to go.

If someone holds a position that is contrary to the teaching of the Church, or to what I believe is right and proper, I say let them be. Each person has the right to think and say what they want, and we will have to answer to God for what we say and do. But trying to force others to accept another position is a different matter. That is the false prophet Jesus is talking about, one who tries to influence or manipulate the morals of others, not just hold a contrary position.

Similarly, the Church presents its teachings and its doctrines and expects its members to follow them. But it can’t really do much beyond that, at least not in this age. It can inform and warn us about the false prophets amongst us, but the Church cannot prevent those false prophets from speaking.
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I probably shouldn’t even go here…but I was watching a documentary yesterday about a priest who molested boys at a school for the deaf for decades. When some of those boys became men, they tried and tried and tried to get someone to do something about it. The documentary went into what the Vatican has known about bad priests and how they have handled the situation over the past 60 years at least. I couldn’t help thinking about some of the things we are taught that are supposed to make us unworthy of partaking in Communion, while some priests who molest children, were just being forgiven, not addressed as a danger to their parishes, and shuffled around.

I wonder if things like this are what contributes to the modern cafeteria Catholic’s propensity to discount the magesterium? At the very least, it doesn’t help the situation at all.
 
livingwordunity said:
There are many today who identify as Catholic but who define what it means to be a good Catholic in a radically different way than what is taught by the Magisterium. For example, calling abortion a right, believing in so-called “same-sex marriage”, etc. These can include Catholics who go to Mass every Sunday. When a Catholic leaves the church and registers in a Protestant denomination they are no longer considered a Catholic. What about when someone has Protestant-like beliefs, rejecting the authority of the Magisterium, but continuing to go through the physical motions of going to Mass every Sunday while believing or at least still claiming they are Catholic? Some of these are prominent politicians who even claim on top of this to be a “Catholic in good standing” while ignoring repeated admonitions from their bishop.
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Most Catholics that agree with the legality of abortion, do not agree with the moral right to have an abortion. Given the split between religion and the state, moral rights and legal rights are not essentially identical.

Some Catholics simply don’t agree with legally forcing a woman to give birth, even if they don’t believe in the moral right to have an abortion.
 
Cafeteria Catholics are as a rule poorly catechized. They are weak and waffling as to the teachings of the Magisterium

Also, most of them are too comfortable with liberal friends of their own generation.

Nobody is going to tell them what to think about abortion or same-sex marriage if it conflicts with the liberal values of the various communities and culture clubs to which they belong.
 
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