Are capitalistic and conservative ideals sinful?

[WillieWonka]

It might not be pretty, but Gordon Gekko was right: Greed Is Good.

How so? Well, greed is the driving factor behind capitalism, and market capitalism has brought more prosperity to more people than any system in history. More than any religion. More than any ideology. More than any government.

The genius of market capitalism is it has taken the universally observed acquisitiveness of people and has channeled it into a system that benefits the largest numbers.

Nobody has ever gotten rid of acquisitiveness and greed. Never at any time in history. But market capitalism has managed to turn that drive into a lot of good.

Don’t shy from greed. Embrace it. We’re all sitting here blathering away on computers because some guys were greedy and founded companies that became billion dollars empires.

We all benefit from greed.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

Don’t shy from greed. Embrace it

I think embracing greed’s a little too much, depending on the meaning. If you mean let people make money with their ideas, that’s good. If you mean become greedy, that’s dangerous.

 

[Bluegoat]

It might not be pretty, but Gordon Gekko was right: Greed Is Good.

How so? Well, greed is the driving factor behind capitalism, and market capitalism has brought more prosperity to more people than any system in history. More than any religion. More than any ideology. More than any government.

The genius of market capitalism is it has taken the universally observed acquisitiveness of people and has channeled it into a system that benefits the largest numbers.

Nobody has ever gotten rid of acquisitiveness and greed. Never at any time in history. But market capitalism has managed to turn that drive into a lot of good.

Don’t shy from greed. Embrace it. We’re all sitting here blathering away on computers because some guys were greedy and founded companies that became billion dollars empires.

We all benefit from greed.

Is prosperity a Christian, or Catholic, value?

 

[Bluegoat]

First of all, I think the church has condemmed socialism as well as at least “free-for-all” capitalism. I’m not sure the U.S. is either of those.

Why not?

Well, I’ve been looking up the history of the term here, and it’s so confusing, I’ll likely withdraw the statement.

But as for what I meant - What I think of as Red Toryism is eaaentially based on Christian values - not that it’s perfect, but that is where it’s coming from.

This other conservatism that seems increasingly common seems to me to have some other underlying value system, although many of it’s proponents seem to be Christian. Mind you, they are often fundamentalists of some sort, and perhaps that is the answer. Fundamentalism is a kind of dualism, and that may be the origin of that strange set of values that seems out of kilter to me.

I will have to think about this some more.

 

[DeannaMarie]

Is prosperity a Christian, or Catholic, value?

NO! Did God create us for wealth? No. He created us to know, love, and serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next. To equate prosperity with happiness is absurd. American citizens may enjoy abundant prosperity, but are we happier than citizens of less prosperous countries? No. Bill Gates has greater wealth than Mother Teresa, but is he happier? No.

Is greed a virtue? Not at all! Greed is one of the seven deadly sins.

 

[WillieWonka]

Is prosperity a Christian, or Catholic, value?

Yes. At the minumum, prosperity means you have your next meal. So do your kids.

 

[WillieWonka]

NO! Did God create us for wealth? No. He created us to know, love, and serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next. To equate prosperity with happiness is absurd. American citizens may enjoy abundant prosperity, but are we happier than citizens of less prosperous countries? No. Bill Gates has greater wealth than Mother Teresa, but is he happier? No.

Is greed a virtue? Not at all! Greed is one of the seven deadly sins.

We all have our next meal. Some folks in the world don’t. That’s what our prosperity gives us. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I am indeed happier when I can eat.

I can’t speak for Bill Gates or Mother Teresa.

Remember, anyone who wants to experience the pure bliss of blessed poverty is free to enter that state. Funny so many sing it’s praises, but so few choose it.

 

[Langdell]

Both greed and sloth are among the seven deadly sins. Whatever we undertake, we should undertake with at least the aspiration of succeeding at it. We should want to be, and work toward being, a successful parent, a successful spouse, a successful employee, etc. Part of being successful is providing for yourself and your family, running your business well (if you happen to have one) so that your employees can be fairly compensated, and hopefully saving enough to provide for emergencies and to help others.

.

 

[m134e5]

1. Success is great

There is nothing wrong with being successful. God gave us minds and bodies to use well, and doing so will probably bring us at least some kind of success.

1. Wealth is great

There is nothing wrong with having a lot of money, as long as the money doesn’t become the center of our lives instead of God.

1. Failure is great

This is not a capitalistic or conservative ideal. Failure can bring us back to God when we have let money or something else distract us from God- but it is not great in itself.

4 A small amount of greed is good (drives innovation and job creation), too much is bad.

There’s nothing wrong with learning how to do a job well, working hard, and reaping the rewards- as long as you don’t oppress others in order to get where you are.There’s also nothing wrong with wanting those who don’t have the skills or self-discipline to do what you do to keep their hands out of what youve fairly earned- even if it’s a shockingly large amount compared to what some earn.

Capitalism has been a part of this country since it’s beginning. It gave this country the nickname “the land of opportunity.” It brought people from all over the world, because they saw the good it promised- and though there is poverty here, and many of those immigrants struggled to get on their feet when they got here (and sadly many of them were oppressed), many found the success they dreamed they’d find. In Capitalism, America has something the rest of the world wants- or at least wanted for a long time (and when they seemed to want it less, that’s when things really started messing up)- that should tell us something.

 

[Bluegoat]

We all have our next meal. Some folks in the world don’t. That’s what our prosperity gives us. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I am indeed happier when I can eat.

I can’t speak for Bill Gates or Mother Teresa.

Remember, anyone who wants to experience the pure bliss of blessed poverty is free to enter that state. Funny so many sing it’s praises, but so few choose it.

And what if part of the reason they don’t have meals is Western capitalism? What does Christ suggest to us about our primary purpose in life?

I think we would all say that it would be a very good thing if everyone could be adequately fed, clothed, housed? Is this really what constitutes the kid of prosperity you have been talking about, or that is pushed in the West? Or is it a new Ipod every year, and two cars, and a vacation in a warm spot? Those things seem quite clearly of a different order, and are outside of what Christianity and Catholicism says we need or should look for.

 

[WillieWonka]

And what if part of the reason they don’t have meals is Western capitalism? What does Christ suggest to us about our primary purpose in life?

I think we would all say that it would be a very good thing if everyone could be adequately fed, clothed, housed? Is this really what constitutes the kid of prosperity you have been talking about, or that is pushed in the West? Or is it a new Ipod every year, and two cars, and a vacation in a warm spot? Those things seem quite clearly of a different order, and are outside of what Christianity and Catholicism says we need or should look for.

1. I have no reason to think Western market capitalism is keeping meals from anyone. How and where is this happening?
2. I don’t know what Christ says is the purpose of life. But I guarantee it’s OK to eat while pursuing it.
3. I have indeed been talking about prosperity that can be measured in things likefood, clothing, and housing. In fact, didn’t Christ mention something about being hungry and you fed me?
4. My prosperity can also be emasuerd in iPods, cars, and vacations.
5. Prosperity is not limited to what the Church says one needs.
6. Note we are all free to choose poverty. It’s easy. I’ve done it a few times without even trying. The profound joy I felt when they towed away the BMW was only exceeded when I was finally able to buy an old Pinto. Sadly, I lost my moral footing and got another BMW when capitalism smiled on me again.

 

[Bluegoat]

1. I have no reason to think Western market capitalism is keeping meals from anyone. How and where is this happening?
2. I don’t know what Christ says is the purpose of life. But I guarantee it’s OK to eat while pursuing it.
3. I have indeed been talking about prosperity that can be measured in things likefood, clothing, and housing. In fact, didn’t Christ mention something about being hungry and you fed me?
4. My prosperity can also be emasuerd in iPods, cars, and vacations.
5. Prosperity is not limited to what the Church says one needs.
6. Note we are all free to choose poverty. It’s easy. I’ve done it a few times without even trying. The profound joy I felt when they towed away the Beemer was only exceeded when I was finally able to buy an old Pinto. Sadly, I fell from that state again.

Ah, it seems clear that you don’t actually care about the answer to the ops question - I wonder why you bother to post?

If you don’t see how Western capitalism keeps some people poor, you need to learn more about it.

 

[WillieWonka]

Ah, it seems clear that you don’t actually care about the answer to the ops question - I wonder why you bother to post?

If you don’t see how Western capitalism keeps some people poor, you need to learn more about it.

Just show us where Western capitalism is keeping meals from folks. I am the first to agree I need to learn more. So, tell us. I’m sure I’m not the only one here who doesn’t know.

(If anyojne does know how Western capitalism is keeping meals from folks, please speak up.)

 

[MindOverMatter]

There are certain socially conservative ideals that are in fact, good. Being pro-life, anti-euthanasia, supporting traditional marriage, etc. What you’re talking about are fiscally conservative ideals and I can’t really answer that.

However, are you sure about this statement? I understand it’s not easy to get to Heaven if you’re rich.

Matthew 19:23-24

I believe in work; i believe everybody should work. But i believe that the objective goal of society is twisted. We live in a society where its everybody for themselves, where people help each other only out of necessity of survival and saving face and power. Politically speaking, i think that modern politics is a front to hide the fact that we are all contributing to a way of life that is akin to survival of the fittest.

I think that the goal of society to simply accumulate wealth and compete for comfortable living conditions is sinful. I think that the exploitation of food and water is a sin. I think that the existence of “social or economic classes” is a sin. And i believe that until human beings strive for the benefit of everybody rather then for the benefit of individuals, only then will we be living in a good society.

Thats just my point of view.

 

[WillieWonka]

I believe in work; i believe everybody should work. But i believe that the objective goal of society is twisted. We live in a society where its everybody for themselves, where people help each other only out of necessity of survival and saving face and power. Politically speaking, i think that modern politics is a front to hide the fact that we are all contributing to a way of life that is akin to survival of the fittest.

Thats just my point of view.

We live in a society where 58% of the federal budget goes to social security, medicare, medicaid, chips, safety net programs, and veterans benefits.

Everybody out for themselves?

 

[MindOverMatter]

We live in a society where 58% of the federal budget goes to social security, medicare, medicaid, chips, safety net programs, and veterans benefits.

Everybody out for themselves?

Out of necessity of maintaining a structure that keeps the rich rich and saves them face. If they didn’t give those things, the threat of revolution would rise. It may be true that those in power may do a good turn, but that doesn’t change the fact the system is driven toward profit before people. If these people in power were truly about the people there would not be any such thing as poor people.

 

[fish90]

Capitalism still enslaves people in the third world. That is something that needs to be taken care of.

Our social programs do give what a person is worth to the best of its ability. The problem is these programs are unaffordable. I am a minimalist when it comes to social programs. I do not think a person has a right to live in a house the same size as mine and get a subsidy for it. I also do not think breast augmentation, face lifts and tummy tucks are a necessity in most cases. I would be happy if everyone has enough nutritious food in their belly, they sleep in an adequate house, and receive necessary basic medical care from conception to natural death. Hearing about some stories about how older people in my life lived, our social programs can be considered luxurious.

 

[slywakka250]

ok, I agree that capitalism will keep some people poor.

However, I think that social responsibility, and social justice does not lie with the government. It is a moral requirement on every individual…If you are a wealthy person…God is likely calling some very rich people to go to very great lengths to help the poor. If they choose not to answer that call, then the poor will suffer more, and such is our condition.

I think you can have it both ways. You can have strong rights of private property, liberty, and self-determination, free from excessive regulation and taxes, but only if there are enough people who voluntarily give of their excess wealth to help their neighbor. i believe Jesus talked about doing just that.

When the government forces responsibility and justice, other equally important values such as liberty are violated…

 

[reasonforseason]

Why? Do you also think that it’s un-Christian to force people to support the military?

Why is it un-Christian for the government to take our money to help the poor, but not un-Christian for the government to take our money to build big bombs?

Edwin

This is called “providing for the common defense”. It is the only thing our constitution says the government is supposed to do.

 

[MindOverMatter]

Our social programs do give what a person is worth to the best of its ability. The problem is these programs are unaffordable. I am a minimalist when it comes to social programs. I do not think a person has a right to live in a house the same size as mine and get a subsidy for it.

what you are saying here is a product of the survival of the fittest mentality. Nobody deserves anything. We receive our value from God, and are value as persons has to be considered in that respect. I think that if i am to believe that a person has intrinsic value as a person, then a person ought to receive that which fulfills that intrinsic value, and that means living in a house that saves ones dignity as a living person and promotes ones health.