Are capitalistic and conservative ideals sinful?

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WillieWonka said:
The grocery store model doesn’t match reality. As a model we can deal with it, but it mainly demonstrates it is stupid to buy something and then destroy its value. Why bother to buy a business and then just destroy it and start over? Get rid of emplyees, inventory, and market share? Better to just buy a vacant building for less money.

Be careful not to assign the characteristics of any model to reality unless it can be demonstarted there is a match.

I agree capitalism doesn’t try to bring about human dignity. But capitalism has allowed for more prosperity and human dignity than any other system in history.

I don’t know what you are trying to say by, “The end in your story is based on how good the outcome is for you not others. Sounds like greed if you ask my humble opinion.” Can you elaborate on oyur humble opinion?
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The greed that I make my opinion on is based upon your statement of “So, I am stuck. Even if I want to cut wages and laugh at them while passing out canned Spam at Christmas, I can’t get away with it. I am in the same place as a guy who loves his employees. Neither one of us can control the market.” I did not see any motivation that is oriented to the good with the statement of “I can’t get away with it. I am in the same place as a guy who loves his employees. Neither one of us can control the market.” Just my observation, nothing more.

The grocery store story happened in real life. Not even a mile away from my house. The story may also show silliness that comes from being inconsiderate of human dignity.😃

The good morality that exists in proper capitalism created the human dignity we see today. Prosperity has nothing to do with dignity. Maybe indirectly but certainly not directly.

I do not wish any disrespect.

God Bless
 
Hi, Fish90,

You’re welcome… 🙂
fish90 said:
Hey tqualey, thanks again

Hey WillieWonka,

There also exists in business the personal element. This element is arguably what keeps small business going in face of large corporations.

Real life example for ya:D
An owner goes and sells his small grocery store. The new owner comes in and fires all the workers and buys cheaper products. The new owner actually lost market share ( loyal customers) due to his/her cost cutting and denial of the personal element.

So tqualey is right there is not one force acting. Pouring money into quality and workers is actually a great idea in the long term. Capitalism is not the end all and be all about economics. It doesn’t at its heart aim to bring about high acceptance of human dignity. The end in your story is based on how good the outcome is for you not others. Sounds like greed if you ask my humble opinion.

God Bless and with respect,
fish90
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On a silly note … do you get the impression we are communicating with Gene Wilder … and, if we ‘do well’ we’ll be invited to the chocolate factory? imdb.com/title/tt0067992/ Just could not be too serious for too long… 😃

God bless
 
tqualey said:
Hi, WillieWonka,

You do realize how a business is legally formed (sole proprietorship, partnership or corporation) has nothing to do with the economic system it finds itself in. There are corporations in Russia.

Hold on… with all of these concessions … I am getting confused… does this mean that you are agreeing with me…😃 Market forces are never equal (like an algebra equation…) rather they are competing from different aspects - more like a multi-dimensional chess game with more then one player. There really is no ‘winner’ in the sense that the game stops - it is a long and protracted end-game for position. And, don’t forget, the government is playing in this, too. While not necessarily bad … I don’t think anyone last year had thought of Uncle owning GM!

God bless
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I realize there are various forms of business organization. Why do you ask?

What concessions?

Of course market forces are never equal. they are always adjusting in relation to one another. That’s Econ 101.
 
tqualey said:
Hi, Fish90,

You’re welcome… 🙂

On a silly note … do you get the impression we are communicating with Gene Wilder … and, if we ‘do well’ we’ll be invited to the chocolate factory? imdb.com/title/tt0067992/ Just could not be too serious for too long… 😃

God bless
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Gotta be careful though. We should not wish any disrespect.

There are times when people disagree about a lot. I think that is the case for us and WillieWonka:D.

God Bless
 
fish90 said:
The greed that I make my opinion on is based upon your statement of “So, I am stuck. Even if I want to cut wages and laugh at them while passing out canned Spam at Christmas, I can’t get away with it. I am in the same place as a guy who loves his employees. Neither one of us can control the market.” I did not see any motivation that is oriented to the good with the statement of “I can’t get away with it. I am in the same place as a guy who loves his employees. Neither one of us can control the market.” Just my observation, nothing more.

The grocery store story happened in real life. Not even a mile away from my house. The story may also show silliness that comes from being inconsiderate of human dignity.😃

The good morality that exists in proper capitalism created the human dignity we see today. Prosperity has nothing to do with dignity. Maybe indirectly but certainly not directly.

I do not wish any disrespect.

God Bless
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  1. My point is very simple. Both the greedy and benign employer face the same market forces and both are constrained in what they can do by those forces.
  2. Maybe you didn’t see anything oriented to the good. So what? I’m demonstrating how market forces constrain actions in market capitalism.
  3. How’s the grocery doing now?
  4. If prosperity has nothing to do with dignity, then why are you so concerned about jobs? If it has nothing to do with dignity, then what is the relationship between an economic system and dignity? What are you complaining about?
 
fish90 said:
Gotta be careful though. We should not wish any disrespect.

There are times when people disagree about a lot. I think that is the case for us and WillieWonka:D.

God Bless
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Feel free to speak freel. I don’t care.
 
I suspect that maybe 90% of the time, the principles of morality and the principles of good business would lead an attentive person to the same decision. Unfortunately, a lot of people are not especially insightful about their long-term best interests.
.
 
fish90 said:
I do not mean disrespect. I was saying that the poster needs to be careful because it sounded a little disrespectful. I hope you were not offended.

God Bless
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Do I sound like someone who easily takes offense? Communicate as effectively as you can.
 
Langdell said:
I suspect that maybe 90% of the time, the principles of morality and the principles of good business would lead an attentive person to the same decision. Unfortunately, a lot of people are not especially insightful about their long-term best interests.
.
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I agree. And we have to be careful not to brand incompetence, mistakes, poor judgement, and adverse market conditions as immorality. The verdict on long term interests tends to be delivered after the term is done.
 
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