Are Catholic men being turned into wimps?

[Sailor_Kenshin]

From an era when men actually thought protecting their country and those weaker than themselves was honorable… break the chains of wimpitude! Take this double shot of awesome and win!!

GaoGaiGaaa! Fighting King of Braves!

 

[GraceDK]

I would argue that many of us are deciding even further from the level of the “wimp”. Some of us are even turning into eunuchs. We have no sex lives, and we just live with it, day after day, year after year.

I mean that figuratively, not literally. No, I haven’t been physically castrated. Instead, my wife refuses me sex, and I am forced to accept it. This has gone on for 16 years. So I have been practicallly castrated, although my sex organs are still intact.

Most Jewish/pagan/agnostic/atheistic men wouldn’t put up with this. They would leave. Or they would demand change of their wives.

I have no such opportunity. I have no leverage to address the situation. Our church forbides divorce and remarriage. And adultery, polygamy, even masturbation, are not permitted to us. Essentially, for men in my position, there is no opportunity for sexual release. We have two choices: abandon the faith, or live in 100% abstinence.

I could live in 100% abstinence, if I were called to this, and made an oath to this. If I did that, I would be a priest, religious, or committed single. But this was not my vocation calling; I was called to marriage. This is what I discerned when I was still a transitional single. But instead of enjoying the benefits of the marriage bed, I get years of sexlessness. My self-respect and self-esteem have plummeted, as a result.

In effect, we have become eunuchs, even though all the parts are still attached. No wonder that we are often objects of ridicule by non-Christians, and even other Christian believers. They must think that Catholic men are big, dumb idiots, for putting up with this.

But your own life is unique. If your wife denies you sexual relations and leads you to despair she might be the sinner here if she is not willing to get medical attention for whatever problem that has lead to this…
When we get married we say: “In sickness and in health, for better and for worse, till death do us part”, right… but if a person enters the marriage without the intention of giving themselves to their spouse, then an anulment could be achieved.

The other day I learned about a man whose whole sexual organ was removed during a mistaken operation. Quite a catastophe for him and his family and a scandal for our health system. However… Is his wife now a “big dumb idiot” if she stays by his side for the rest of his life, knowing there is no more sex? I think not… rather I think she does what she has to and at the same time she is a hero for it.

 

[caro_c]

I saw a Dr Philip Mango www.saintmichael.net on EWTN Live, last week (I think). He had some interesting things to say about masculinity and femininity. He has some talks on youtube. What he said made a lot of sense. He talked about modern culture tuning men into wimps, expectations, the important role of fathers etc. I presume it will be on EWTN’s archive. Well worth a view.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[jmcrae]

But your own life is unique. If your wife denies you sexual relations and leads you to despair she might be the sinner here if she is not willing to get medical attention for whatever problem that has lead to this.

It sounds like a break-down in communication. Maybe she is having to go out to work, and is thinking that if she has to live as-if the single life even while married, why should she have to “put out”. It goes both ways, after all.

 

[mrpathetic]

It sounds like a break-down in communication. Maybe she is having to go out to work, and is thinking that if she has to live as-if the single life even while married, why should she have to “put out”. It goes both ways, after all.

She actually holds down 2 jobs, although she doesn’t need one.

I make enough money to support the family, and provide a decent, middle-class lifestyle. She holds down her 2 jobs, because this gives her money, power, and control.

==========================================================

Regarding divorce/annulment: I made a decision not to go down this route. This would be bad for my children. I grew up in a broken home - my father was an alcoholic, and abandoned the family while I was still very young. Life in that family was miserable. My mother had to support a family of 3 on the salary of a typist.

I promised myself I would never put my own children through that. So I am staying, for the duration. (My wife may show me the door someday, but I will never leave, of my own volition.)

=======================================================

I just wish that God would remove my sex drive, which would allow me to live with no sex urges. Then I could find the situation tolerable. Why did He give me a sex drive, and a life partner who refuses sex?

What a cruel joke. It is like being locked in a cage, with plenty of food, but your jaw is wired shut, so you can’t eat anything.

I will obey God’s will, and the teachings of our faith. If I have to live in 100% continence for the rest of my life, and this is God’s design, I will do it.

I just wish that God would bless me, by taking away my sexuality. That would help me cope with this situation, day after day, year after year…

 

[GraceDK]

I just wish that God would remove my sex drive, which would allow me to live with no sex urges. Then I could find the situation tolerable. Why did He give me a sex drive, and a life partner who refuses sex?

What a cruel joke. It is like being locked in a cage, with plenty of food, but your jaw is wired shut, so you can’t eat anything.

I will obey God’s will, and the teachings of our faith. If I have to live in 100% continence for the rest of my life, and this is God’s design, I will do it.

I just wish that God would bless me, by taking away my sexuality. That would help me cope with this situation, day after day, year after year…

WHY is she doing this to you??? Where is the love… Put her on here! I want a talk with her… what is she up to…?
Is she not aware of what marriage is??? Many of us would LOVE to have a wonderful husband and to be wanted both sexually and in other ways.
As for me… I too live an unvoluntarily sex-less existence. Think of me, dear brother, and peope like me. You have children and family. I have a room and a bed alone and when I feel the sex urge I have no where to take it. I cant even have a hug.
Many of us are more or less like you.
I am trying not to focus on it but focus on the vastness of beauty around me in creation, in friendship, in the church, in music, in Christ.
As for you I think you should sit down your wife, show her your anger, hurt and disappointment clearly (to tell you the truth many women get turned on by passionate men who say “HEY, face this NOW”, and who demand respect. Being a doormat is an alltogether turn off both for the male and female.) Tell her you want things to change and that if she cares at all she will work with you… I mean… how cruel is she! Sorry but its your fault I say this… Dont walk around like some mouse. You gotta say things like they are or you will be to blame for your own situation.

 

[mrpathetic]

WHY is she doing this to you??? Where is the love… Put her on here! I want a talk with her… what is she up to…?
Is she not aware of what marriage is???

She knows that I post on message boards like this, and she really dislikes that fact. No, unfortunately, she will not “join the discussion…”

I think she has a highly secularized view of marriage. She has abandoned Christianity, and now labels herself as an agnostic.

She views our marriage now as a contract and living arrangement, nothing more. She certainly does not see it as a sacrament. I still try my best, to honor my vows, and be faithful to both my Lord and my wife.

I have expressed my anger and disillusionment with my wife, and she simply does not care. So, I have effectively given up trying to change my wife’s attitudes towards sex and marriage. She simply refuses to budge.

She keeps telling me that I can leave, and find someone else. But we all know that Scriptures prohibits this. “He who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery”… We all know the rules.

So I will honor my Lord, and remain in my marriage, with 100% continence. I see no other choice. I just pray to the Lord, for the grace to bear this burden…

 

[jmcrae]

So I will honor my Lord, and remain in my marriage, with 100% continence. I see no other choice. I just pray to the Lord, for the grace to bear this burden…

That is all that can be done, at this point, other than opening up the lines of communication, somehow.

Some marriages go through a phase like that, so I am told, although 16 years seems a very long time.

 

[dad_of_seven]

Short answer?

Yes.

Antidote? Try this book, Real Men: Ten Courageous Americans To Know And Admire.

 

[GraceDK]

Are Catholic men being turned into wimps?

I think this question is complicated.
Can someone define a real man and someone define a wimp?

Also, can someone point out the start point before the “turning” began.
When were men not “wimps”? and what did they do right back then that they dont do now?

also, who is “turning” in the “turned” since the verb is passive?

 

[ac_claire]

Are Catholic men being turned into wimps?

I think this question is complicated.
Can someone define a real man and someone define a wimp?

Also, can someone point out the start point before the “turning” began.
When were men not “wimps”? and what did they do right back then that they dont do now?

also, who is “turning” in the “turned” since the verb is passive?

Hi Grace,

Well it’s clear the OP question can’t be really answered because it’s way too general.

But I think we can discuss it. As a general trend over the past few decades, I would say yes, in my opinion there has been a subtle shift in the cultural respect for masculinity that used to be the norm. Or at least more common. Seems like now it’s more popular and common to tear down men or mock their masculinity, or mock their traditional values if they have any. (Speaking mostly about pop culture here-- TV, movies, etc.)

I can’t point to exactly when the shift happened. Seems to be gradual, and I think it has a lot to do with feminism and the so called “sexual revolution” of the 60s and 70s.

Our late Holy Father taught that men and women are equal in dignity but have different roles, and were created with different but complementary purposes. Seems like one result of this shift I was talking about is the line that marks the differences between the sexes has been blurred over the past few decades. For example, men and women now are more apt to dress alike…women are told we need to be more agressive; men are taught they need to be more sensitive, etc., etc.

Again, I’m speaking in very general terms here, about a trend. Personally I’m sort of old-fashioned and I like men to be real men.

 

[GraceDK]

Hi Grace,

Well it’s clear the OP question can’t be really answered because it’s way too general.

But I think we can discuss it. As a general trend over the past few decades, I would say yes, in my opinion there has been a subtle shift in the cultural respect for masculinity that used to be the norm. Or at least more common. Seems like now it’s more popular and common to tear down men or mock their masculinity, or mock their traditional values if they have any. (Speaking mostly about pop culture here-- TV, movies, etc.)

I can’t point to exactly when the shift happened. Seems to be gradual, and I think it has a lot to do with feminism and the so called “sexual revolution” of the 60s and 70s.

Our late Holy Father taught that men and women are equal in dignity but have different roles, and were created with different but complementary purposes. Seems like one result of this shift I was talking about is the line that marks the differences between the sexes has been blurred over the past few decades. For example, men and women now are more apt to dress alike…women are told we need to be more agressive; men are taught they need to be more sensitive, etc., etc.

Again, I’m speaking in very general terms here, about a trend. Personally I’m sort of old-fashioned and I like men to be real men.

I still think its very vague.
you say:
“Seems like now it’s more popular and common to tear down men or mock their masculinity, or mock their traditional values if they have any”.

what does the masculinity consist in in your eyes? and what is the traditional values? Please be specific.
My question is this. What is it in men that was there 200 years ago that you don’t find today? (Given, as seems to be the presumption, that men have changed over time). All I ever hear is women and men wanting men to be “real men”. To me its clear that a man is a man, no matter what his personality, hobby or job. A sensitive emphatic high school teacher is as much a man as a New York fire fighter.
I think there has been some misunderstandings in the past where men and women were put into a box… like a woman would be told: you are only created to help the man, you dont need an education. and a man was supposed to be an absentminded provider who had cigars and drinks with his male colleagues…
I dont see the golden age behind us any where, is what I am trying to say.
Also I wonder why there is talk of men being feminized (as if feminised in itself is a bad thing) but not about women being masculinised. Today we have women working as leaders of banks, politicians, we have them wearing suits and short hair.
I believe the potential of flexibility has always been there in both men and women.
If I wear pants and short hair tomorrow that does not make me less woman. Neither would I say that I have become masculinised.

To me its seems we have a generel problem with economic systems that do not leave space for men and women that want to focus first and foremost on their families, we see a neo-pagan roughness in the sexual mindset and individual trend which is destructive.

This postmodern mindset should be our common enemy as Christians… we should not wage war on each other like what I see here on these boards where especially women are asked how to be and act and dress… there seems to be a battle going on among religious people which is not even found in secular groups… this is sad-.

 

[mystagogia]

The problem is not confined to Catholic men.

We’ve got a problem with masculinity in our culture at large and this has an effect on us, too.

Look around, particularly at the youth culture where boys are filled with angst and dropping out in droves. Go down to your local college campus and walk around. Girls rule, just ask one there if girls rule or not.

Men are turning themselves into metrosexuals and proving their feminist creds in order to play the game, or they are dropping out and pursuing other breeds of women. An emasculation dynamic is afoot for men while at the same time young women are being emboldened and encouraged to exercise liberating power.

The pendulum has swung from having a set up against girls to having one against boys.

Can there ever be a happy medium?

 

[mrpathetic]

It is extraordinarily hard to be a Catholic male in 20th-century America. I presume it is the same in many other Western countries as well.

For one thing, it is extraordinarily hard for men to practice chastity in this culture. I mean, it is nearly impossible. It is a daily struggle, and a brutal one at that. The insane, sex-drenched culture that pervades our civilization, has made chastity an almost impossible virtue to live. Regardless of your life state, you are hit with constant sexual temptation - it is virtually everywhere. It is insidious and pervasive. I can’t even drive home from work, without having to deal with it! There is a huge billboard, along the road that I take home every day, with suggestive pictures of women in their underwear. How am I supposed to resist or ignore that? I have to look down at the floorboards of my car! (No, I haven’t caused any accidents - yet.)

Non-Christian men don’t understand the plight of Christian men, when it comes to this issue - indeed, they are almost oblivious to the problem. They don’t understand why Christian men don’t just start acting like libertines, like seemingly every other groups of males in this culture.

On the other hand, we have a culture that hates masculinity - true masculinity, to be specific. Our culture has devalued the traits of traditional males - strength, courage, reason, responsibility, trustworthiness, devotion, creativity, and ambition. Men who exhibit these traits are treated as either hypocrites or throwbacks. Indeed, men in this culture are supposed to act more like women, or else they are ostricized and humiliated. And additionally, it is almost impossible for these men to model these traits to their sons - which will only perpetuate the problem, to another generation. Maybe by the end of the next generation, there won’t be any real men left in this culture - we will become Amazonia, not America.

**Christian women also don’t understand the plight of men, when it comes to this regard. They don’t understand why men just won’t act like women, and stop complaining. **

In effect, Catholic men are hit by a double-whammy today - a secular culture of sexual perversion, enclosing a Catholic subculture that is increasingly effeminate. In effect, it puts a squeeze on Catholic men. We can’t remain chaste, and we can’t act like traditional males. **What are we supposed to act like? **

No wonder so many men simply give up, and either walk away from Christianity, or start acting like women. They either become Christopher Hitchens or Perez Hilton.

 

[GraceDK]

The problem is not confined to Catholic men.

We’ve got a problem with masculinity in our culture at large and this has an effect on us, too.

Look around, particularly at the youth culture where boys are filled with angst and dropping out in droves. Go down to your local college campus and walk around. Girls rule, just ask one there if girls rule or not.

Men are turning themselves into metrosexuals and proving their feminist creds in order to play the game, or they are dropping out and pursuing other breeds of women. An emasculation dynamic is afoot for men while at the same time young women are being emboldened and encouraged to exercise liberating power.

The pendulum has swung from having a set up against girls to having one against boys.

Can there ever be a happy medium?

Boys are filled with angst? and dropping out? In Europe the teen suicide is highest among girls and angst and panic attack is as big with girls as with boys. The rootless culture and lack of religious and spiritual identity are reasons for this.
Girls rule? how so? I am fairly young still and I have never ruled anyone. I have gone about my business and tried to do well in school as well as socially. Is it bad for a girl to have self-confidence? Should she shrink so that boys can feel they “the man”? I dont get this mentality.
In everyone of my schools I always felt that boys were looked at with particular tolerance and encouragement by the teachers and the other students. It was pressumed a boy would be gifted and smart whereas the girls would have to work hard to gain the same position.
I know in the US its different probably, but I think the tendencies I have seen in my own life were not to be envied by americans.
What do you mean “girls rule”. What kind of mindset is it that you have that sets girls against boys? Have you ever experienced being treated as with less worth than a woman, having lower pay-check than your female colleages, having less to say at a public gathering or in church than a woman, or been asked to be silent because you were a man???
What do you mean that “girls rule”?
In my own campus there is no “girls rule” and no “guys rule” ( I assume you think its just as catastrophic if guys “rule” right?)

I don’t like the way many people use the word feminine, feminised, etc, as a bad word. I am a woman. If I am white and people start to say: “You are starting to become like a black person”, would that not seem like a racist remark? Like there is something wrong with black people… But many of you use “woman” as a bad or inferior word.

Again I wonder… who are these hidden agents that you speak off who cause the emasculation? In my culture I could say: women are being turned into men, they are agressive, use casual sex, foul language etc. However, there is nothing truly masculine about these traits. Rather they are signs of a cultural disease.
Something masculine could be strength, mathematical and logical thinking, self control… and if a woman has these traits, then that is only good. And womans strength can be relational, empathy, understanding… also traits that are good when found in men.

In other words… I dont really follow your basic assumptions.

 

[chevalier]

Virtues are virtues, good in anyone.

Shortcomings are a different thing and some are more odd in one gender than in the other. Think of an anorexic man or a particularly rude and coarse woman. These things are largely cultural, but not totally. The differences between genders are not only in outward appearance. It is wrong to blur some of those differences and the key problem there is not the particular external manifestation of that difference but rather a more inward rejection of a part of one’s identity. There’s a reason we don’t want men walking around in mini skirts, even though kilts are fine. The principle is different between the two.

 

[ac_claire]

I still think its very vague.
you say:
“Seems like now it’s more popular and common to tear down men or mock their masculinity, or mock their traditional values if they have any”.

what does the masculinity consist in in your eyes? and what is the traditional values? Please be specific.

I intentionally didn’t get into specifics because I don’t want to pick apart individual examples of personal opinion as if those validate or invalidate the main claim. Which is that there has been a general trend of lack of respect for masculinity and femininity in modern culture today in favor of this new doctrine of egalitarianism of the sexes. This is all just my opinion. I think that because it is common knowledge, and plain truth, that the sexes are equal, focusing on that fact…as if it is *the most important * truth about men and women…is disordered.

My question is this. What is it in men that was there 200 years ago that you don’t find today? (Given, as seems to be the presumption, that men have changed over time).

I don’t think I said that men have changed in the past 200 years.

 

[Leonius]

The point is that normal masculine behaviour is now considered “undesirable” behaviour as you can see by the number of boys who are diagnosed as been ill and given drugs when they display masculine traits instead of been taught how to control those traits to their great benefit. Yes boys are harder to control than girls, but it is a strong hand and discipline they need not sedatives, been born a male is not an illness.

There is no golden age where men were perfect men but this is the first age where men been men at all are looked down on, ridiculed, vilified rejected and told to get in touch with their feminine side.

The current problems are caused primarily by the destruction of the family, which has been caused by the false feminist notion which is not compatible with Christianity of the battle of the sexes which artificiality seeks to put men and women at each others throats, this is not what God wants and is evil. Boys raised without a father go one of two ways unless they are able to find a good surrogate father, which is rare. They either imitate the traits of their mother and become effeminate or in trying to distinguish themselves as men they go to far and become self destructive.

Even the traditional family unit with a father present are no longer immune from the effects of this due to the effects modern society has had in making men ashamed of who they are.

The kind of article posted by the OP are a symptom of the insecurity many men feel about been men as a result of the constant assaults by society against them just for been born men.

It’s ironic that such insecurity is actually not masculine but is rather a symptom of the type of person I mentioned above raised without a proper male role model who as a result tries to hard to differentiate themselves from women. And he is destined to be frustrated due to the fact that modern women are determined to make themselves as much like men as possible.

The real danger which I see at present in many men to differing degrees is that a false marketed “masculinity” is been adopted by men who do not know what true masculinity is, the most obvious examples of this false masculinity can be found in adverts that promote a product as manly and that buying it makes the man manly to. This false masculinity reduces a man’s worth to irrelevant things such as sex appeal/good looks, wealth, physical prowess or even drinking a lot of the right kind of alcohol.

True manliness is not found in any of these things but rather in the cultivation of the virtues particularly Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperance in that order.

With regards to the Church the reason she has become feminised is because men have been made to feel unwelcome and so have left. One thing men are good at is recognising when they are not respected. Even the person of Christ that is taught today is a version that only women can relate to in most churches.

Christ is the greatest, most courageous, heroic man to have ever walked the face of the earth but you would never know it in those churches where only the images of a loving, caring meek and mild Christ are perpetuated and the facets of His character which men respect and can relate to most strongly are not talked about as if they were shameful and not to be mentioned.

 

[RoyNeary2001]

Such a question is acceptable because the underlying premise is that men can be challenged and confronted about the essence of our being. We are supposed to fight back by vigorous aggression or argumentation. It is easy to hurl a vindictive phrase, “Be a man!”

 

[jmcrae]

Wimpiness is unattractive in both sexes. How about if everyone just be an adult, and stand up for what you believe in?