Are Catholic men being turned into wimps?

[jmcrae]

It could be, yeah. You’re right. Part of that is just the differences in the natural sex drives of men and women.

Right, and with many women, there is a strong need to be wooed and seduced - so many women cannot just turn on their sex drives at will. If a man comes to bed expecting his wife to be ready for intimacy at a moment’s notice, he is likely to be disappointed. He has to caress her and bring her gently past her natural resistance, to the point where she is ready for sexual intimacy.

Maybe this is more work than some men are willing to do (or maybe the initial natural resistance is mistaken for a definite “no” - and if communication is generally poor in the marriage to begin with, I can definitely see how it would be very confusing for the man), and in such a case, the marriage would definitely become sexless.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Even the Bible suppresses men We always have to prepare the coffee… it’s in the Bible… He-brews

 

[whatevergirl]

Even the Bible suppresses men We always have to prepare the coffee… it’s in the Bible… He-brews

LOL–
I think you are in need of some.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Right, and with many women, there is a strong need to be wooed and seduced - so many women cannot just turn on their sex drives at will. If a man comes to bed expecting his wife to be ready for intimacy at a moment’s notice, he is likely to be disappointed. He has to caress her and bring her gently past her natural resistance, to the point where she is ready for sexual intimacy.

Maybe this is more work than some men are willing to do (or maybe the initial natural resistance is mistaken for a definite “no” - and if communication is generally poor in the marriage to begin with, I can definitely see how it would be very confusing for the man), and in such a case, the marriage would definitely become sexless.

With many men, there is a strong need to be wooed and seduced to pick up the vacuum cleaner - so many men cannot just turn on their enthusiasm for cleaning up the house at will. If a woman comes to the kitchen expecting his husband to be ready for taking out the garbage at a moment’s notice, she is likely to be disappointed. She has to express her need and appreciation for her knight and hero and bring him gently past his natural reluctance, to the point where he is ready to happily and very energetically scrub even the largest and greasiest pots and pans.

Maybe this is more hassle than some women’s patience can bear (or maybe the initial natural reluctance is mistaken for a definite “no” - and if communication is generally poor in the marriage to begin with, I can definitely see how it would be very confusing for the woman), and in such a case, mowing the lawn and washing the cars would be put off indefinitely, causing frustration not only to the wife, but paradoxically also to the husband, who would love to take care of everything, but cannot swing into action because he cannot bring himself over the initial psychological hurdle.

 

[Dtmccameron]

With many men, there is a strong need to be wooed and seduced to pick up the vacuum cleaner - so many men cannot just turn on their enthusiasm for cleaning up the house at will. If a woman comes to the kitchen expecting his husband to be ready for taking out the garbage at a moment’s notice, she is likely to be disappointed. She has to express her need and appreciation for her knight and hero and bring him gently past his natural reluctance, to the point where he is ready to happily and very energetically scrub even the largest and greasiest pots and pans.

Maybe this is more hassle than some women’s patience can bear (or maybe the initial natural reluctance is mistaken for a definite “no” - and if communication is generally poor in the marriage to begin with, I can definitely see how it would be very confusing for the woman), and in such a case, mowing the lawn and washing the cars would be put off indefinitely, causing frustration not only to the wife, but paradoxically also to the husband, who would love to take care of everything, but cannot swing into action because he cannot bring himself over the initial psychological hurdle.

:clapping:

One might be led to think sex is the only reason men get married at all.

 

[jmcrae]

With many men, there is a strong need to be wooed and seduced to pick up the vacuum cleaner - so many men cannot just turn on their enthusiasm for cleaning up the house at will. If a woman comes to the kitchen expecting his husband to be ready for taking out the garbage at a moment’s notice, she is likely to be disappointed. She has to express her need and appreciation for her knight and hero and bring him gently past his natural reluctance, to the point where he is ready to happily and very energetically scrub even the largest and greasiest pots and pans.

Maybe this is more hassle than some women’s patience can bear (or maybe the initial natural reluctance is mistaken for a definite “no” - and if communication is generally poor in the marriage to begin with, I can definitely see how it would be very confusing for the woman), and in such a case, mowing the lawn and washing the cars would be put off indefinitely, causing frustration not only to the wife, but paradoxically also to the husband, who would love to take care of everything, but cannot swing into action because he cannot bring himself over the initial psychological hurdle.

You probably think you’re being funny, but you’ve actually just described quite a few men that I know.

It would be so nice if everyone were to just do their duty without being asked, and without needing any kind of an incentive, but it seems that we are simply not made that way.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

LOL–
I think you are in need of some.

gone brewing

 

[NoxSineStellae]

Maybe it’s because I was sexually abused, but I don’t understand equating household chores with the sex act and it actually kind of frightens me. I thought the church taught that sex was to be sacred and holy, something special, something more. Something you do only with someone you’re married to, something intimate, something that requires complete trust.

But it’s the same as doing the dishes or taking out the garbage? Really? Being naked and vulnerable, giving my body and soul to my husband, allowing him INSIDE me - this is the same as him running a vaccuum cleaner over the floors? I just want to cry right now. How horrible. How cheap and low a view of sex and what a woman gives of herself do you have to have to see folding laundry when you’d rather not as an equal exchange.

I have never denied my husband when he initates, and I initate often - because he knows how much it means, and how special it is for both of us. If he had this disrespectful quid pro quo attitude I don’t know what I’d do.

 

[whatevergirl]

Maybe it’s because I was sexually abused, but I don’t understand equating household chores with the sex act and it actually kind of frightens me. I thought the church taught that sex was to be sacred and holy, something special, something more. Something you do only with someone you’re married to, something intimate, something that requires complete trust.

But it’s the same as doing the dishes or taking out the garbage? Really? Being naked and vulnerable, giving my body and soul to my husband, allowing him INSIDE me - this is the same as him running a vaccuum cleaner over the floors? I just want to cry right now. How horrible. How cheap and low a view of sex and what a woman gives of herself do you have to have to see folding laundry when you’d rather not as an equal exchange.

I have never denied my husband when he initates, and I initate often - because he knows how much it means, and how special it is for both of us. If he had this disrespectful quid pro quo attitude I don’t know what I’d do.

I agree, but I think that Varga was being tongue in cheek with his post…(I hope!)

 

[NoxSineStellae]

I agree, but I think that Varga was being tongue in cheek with his post…(I hope!)

I think he was too, but it’s a sentiment I’ve seen expressed again and again. It’s a husband’s “duty” to provide (money) for the family, and a woman’s “duty” to have sex whenever he wants, no matter what she wants, in exchange. When you take away the religious trappings, this is prostitution.

Maybe more men would have more willing wives if they recognized the true sacredness of sex. A woman taking care of the house, your meals, yours clothes, etc - that’s the exchange for your paycheck. Not her body. Your bodies are mutual gifts to each other, freely given and freely received.

 

[jwashu]

Maybe it’s because I was sexually abused, but I don’t understand equating household chores with the sex act and it actually kind of frightens me. I thought the church taught that sex was to be sacred and holy, something special, something more. Something you do only with someone you’re married to, something intimate, something that requires complete trust.

But it’s the same as doing the dishes or taking out the garbage? Really? Being naked and vulnerable, giving my body and soul to my husband, allowing him INSIDE me - this is the same as him running a vaccuum cleaner over the floors? I just want to cry right now. How horrible. How cheap and low a view of sex and what a woman gives of herself do you have to have to see folding laundry when you’d rather not as an equal exchange.

I have never denied my husband when he initates, and I initate often - because he knows how much it means, and how special it is for both of us. If he had this disrespectful quid pro quo attitude I don’t know what I’d do.

Keep this attitude, there are many women who begin to treat it that way when they have other responsibilities around the house. What I’m saying is that it’s not just men and it can be very hurtful to ones spouse.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think he was too, but it’s a sentiment I’ve seen expressed again and again. It’s a husband’s “duty” to provide (money) for the family, and a woman’s “duty” to have sex whenever he wants, no matter what she wants, in exchange. When you take away the religious trappings, this is prostitution.

Maybe more men would have more willing wives if they recognized the true sacredness of sex. A woman taking care of the house, your meals, yours clothes, etc - that’s the exchange for your paycheck. Not her body. Your bodies are mutual gifts to each other, freely given and freely received.

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I agree. I think it’s a duty in the realm of the sacredness of it…the duty and the sacrifice go hand in hand, in my eyes…and not ‘in exchange’ for something else. I don’t barter with my husband over sex, and that is a terrible situation for any man/woman to be in, within a marriage.

I work outside of the home now, so my dh and I and THE KIDS do the chores…so, it’s a non issue at my house, now. When I was a SAHM, I did the household work…I was home all day, that was my job to do that, and take care of the kids. I wouldn’t have expected my husband to come home after a long day of work, and then do the chores. But, when two people are working, it becomes necessary for both to do the chores willingly, another thing that we sacrifice for one another. Truth is when you really know what love is, and how to act it out in your marriage…these issues really don’t come up. You want to do for one another, not withhold from one another. I don’t get the whole withholding sex thing. ***

 

[GraceDK]

Maybe it’s because I was sexually abused, but I don’t understand equating household chores with the sex act and it actually kind of frightens me. I thought the church taught that sex was to be sacred and holy, something special, something more. Something you do only with someone you’re married to, something intimate, something that requires complete trust.

But it’s the same as doing the dishes or taking out the garbage? Really? Being naked and vulnerable, giving my body and soul to my husband, allowing him INSIDE me - this is the same as him running a vaccuum cleaner over the floors? I just want to cry right now. How horrible. How cheap and low a view of sex and what a woman gives of herself do you have to have to see folding laundry when you’d rather not as an equal exchange.

I have never denied my husband when he initates, and I initate often - because he knows how much it means, and how special it is for both of us. If he had this disrespectful quid pro quo attitude I don’t know what I’d do.

Sweet sister in Jesus. Praised be His Name.
If you write a book let me know… then I will buy some copies … Not only do you write well but you also write truth and I envy the beauty of your relationship with your husband where you have both realised what sex really is…
God bless you.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Sorry, NoxSineStellae, I didn’t want to offend you.

Sex as quid pro quo, in exchange for a paycheck or for household chores, didn’t even pass through my mind. I only wanted to paint a humorous picture of guys’ attitudes towards these chores, that was my only motive.

 

[barb_finnegan]

OUr media depicts men as ignorant Neanderthals who only care for sex and eating. A lot of young boys, especially if they don’t have fathers, end up having a narrow view of manhood. This hyper masculinity is not historical though.

Men in the past wrote many of the great works of poetry, created artwork, and wrote plays. All of this today would be considered wimpy and unmanly. This is of course silly. Richard the LionHearted wrote poetry, for example and he certainly wasn’t feminine.

We won’t get men back into the church until parents begin to actively fight the media’s portrayal of males. Encourage your son to have interests in both sports and reading or the arts. Talk to all your children, but boys also, about honor and responsibility. Fathers and mothers should treat each other with respect and try very hard not to make negative comments about the opposite sex(at least in front of their opposite sex children) Sadly, I have heard mothers say things like, ‘all men are stupid.’ when their sons are in the room.

I think that once the next generation realizes that manhood stands for something more then following some selfish hedonistic desires then there will be more male participation in the church and even an upsurge in vocations.

Hear, hear, Deb!

I agree with you 1000%! And I’m a woman, too!

 

[vocatio]

Thanks for the term correction (eem) I have always been confused on that! I don’t know what you mean, by ‘stop making them take low paying jobs…’ I don’t make men do anything, so not sure why that comment was directed at me.

I was speaking about the Diocese needing to pay higher wages for not only teachers, but also for other director positions. Protestant churches pay fairly well as the congregation gets larger. Let’s face it jobs for the parish and diocese pay really bad. This is not a just wage. I believe that men, like me, would love to work for the Church if the door was open to us. I beleive that the jobs should be about 50/50 and pay enough for a Catholic family to support their families. The Church has done a very poor job at making it possible for men to be the bread winner when it comes to offering jobs that once was in the hands of clergy only. There is no real justification for this. Protestant churches pay much better and provide even the status that goes along with it. Sure it’s a ministry. But try comparing it to the so called mega churches and then compare those to the average parish size. I know small congregation youth ministers that are provided for much better than priests. So there really is no justificaton for this in opinion…It’s just that an opinion. Hope that helped.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

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I agree, Grace…if women weren’t so repressed as if they were mere property back ‘in the day,’ the revenge factor of feminism (as I post above a page or so back) wouldn’t have come into play. I am not a feminist, but I’m for equal treatment of women, women not being considered property in our society, and women being allowed the right to vote, and earn an honest wage. But, radical feminism crept in, the pendulum has swung completely in the opposite direction, and now men are being marginalized. Why can’t there be a balance? Neither sex repressed or held down…neither sex marginalized??
I believe my marriage has a happy balance…my husband is the spiritual head of household…he is the MAN of the house. I am a woman, and I have my own individual role that I play…and to mix the two up, to start marginalizing one another, would make for a bad marriage…and thus…as we can see…an imbalanced society. ***

Again, a straw man set up by the enemies of truth. Women were never so oppressed as the feminist want you to believe, and feminism was never, ever about equal pay for equal work.

It has its roots in eugenics.

Now, how about something for the men?

Saint Nuno Alvares Pereira: A Warrior and a Man of Faith
Written by Benjamin Hiegert
Thursday, April 23 2009

Count Saint Nuno Alvares Pereira
On April 26, 2009, the Portuguese Count Nuno Alvares Pereira is to be canonized, nearly six centuries after his death. Saint Nuno Alvares had a brilliant military career and became the Constable of Portugal. Later, out of gratitude for a miraculous victory he won over the Spaniards, Saint Nuno built the Gothic church of Our Lady of the Scapular of Mount Carmel on a hill outside of Lisbon. He gave the church to the Carmelite order, and then joined them as a simple lay brother.

Saint Nuno’s combative life and his devotion serve as an example for Catholics today who must fight to affirm their Faith in a secular world. As we will see, he drew his strength for the fight from his great devotion to Our Lady.

Saint Nuno was born and grew up outside Ourem near Fatima where Our Lady appeared in 1917, and from his youth, he had an ardent devotion to her, the Rosary and to the Brown Scapular. During the 14th century, Portugal had nearly become a province of the Kingdom of Castile. Spain had already defeated Portugal’s armies, and the Portuguese court was weak and decadent. Most of Saint Nuno’s life was spent fighting the Spanish to preserve Portuguese independence. His most important battles were Atoleiros, Aljubarrota (very near Fatima), and Valverde inside of Spain.*

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• For an account of Saint Nuno Alvarez Pereira’s life, see John Haffert, The Peacemaker Who Went to War: The Life of Blessed Nun’Alvarez Pereira, Precursor of Our Lady of Fatima.

Last Updated ( Friday, April 24 2009 )

But wait! There’s more!

The whole story.

 

[whatevergirl]

***Not being permitted to vote, being beaten and it was ‘acceptable,’ I dunno…that is oppression to me. If you look at the history of what women did in this country, for our right to vote…they sacrificed much, spent time in jail, were spit upon and beaten…etc…so you and I could have the right to vote. The term feminism is a term that doesn’t have any meaning to me, really…it’s a societal term.

Women were oppressed, it isn’t my opinion. I will say that today, modern radical feminists want to take ‘freedoms’ to mean something unnatural, and immoral. When an entire movement can be built upon killing babies – that has nothing to do with ‘women’s rights.’ I believe that what started out as a positive–women being given basic rights men had in our country, for example–went completely awry by our modern day feminists. (using the societal term) ***

 

[whatevergirl]

*The irony of this thread…is hidden in the question…are Catholic men ‘being turned into’ wimps? By who? Women?

Let me say this, my husband is very much a masculine man through and through…not because I give him permission to be.

No one turns anyone into anything. We can go on and on about feminism…but, the reality is…no one turns anyone into anything. I do believe there is a link between the radical feminist movement and men behaving as ‘traditional’ men…no doubt, I wouldn’t deny that exists. But, being a traditional, strong Catholic man is very doable in today’s world. *

 

[jmcrae]

*The irony of this thread…is hidden in the question…are Catholic men ‘being turned into’ wimps? By who? Women? *

Good point. If we really have so much power, even to turn strong men into wimps, then why not simply acknowledge our vast superiority over you?

If a man wants to be the strong, decisive one, he should not be standing there awaiting permission from his wife or his mother to do so.

Let me say this, my husband is very much a masculine man through and through…not because I give him permission to be.