Are Catholic schools a good thing?

[ack]

I started my public high school by being fairly non-religious, but I always got along with the religious students better than the non-religious ones, and I think that was a good influence on me.

In other words, I was friends with both religious and non-religious people, and this made the positive effects of religion more clear.

I’m not saying that this is the ideal way for someone to become more faithful. The ideal would have been having parents with a strong faith, or a good high school CCD/Sunday School/youth group. Our high school CCD program was horribly boring, and I don’t remember any attempt at challenging the students to have a healthy spiritual life. I seem to remember that we talked about drugs, fighting, parents, girlfriends…but we didn’t spend a lot of time talking about God. Because I could talk about those things somewhere else, I just didn’t see the point of it all.

This is why I’m personally EXTREMELY fond of the public high school experience (in our area)… sometimes teen “rebellion” in PUBLIC high schools can actually push kids TOWARDS religion… rather than having it forced on them by the school itself…

 

[ChristineML]

When I went to college in northern New Jersey in the early 1990’s it seemed that many fellow college students who had fallen away from the Catholic Faith directly attributed that falling away to hatred / disgust of their Catholic (high?) schools. That was a shock to me, who had such positive experiences at my all girls’ grade school.

I wondered though if it was hypocrisy on their parents’ part that led to their falling away. Were their parents paying money for Catholic schools just because it was tradition in their families and neighborhoods? Because of the prestige of going to a private school? I wondered if there was a profound disconnect between what their teachers were saying (assuming THEY were knowledgeable and faithful to the Magisterium) and how the parents were actually living. Were the parents seen praying or blaspheming? Going to Mass and Confession regularly or dropping the kids off and not going themselves? Praising the local priest and our Holy Father, the Pope, or constantly criticizing and tearing down? Obeying the Church in those hot-button topics, abortion, birth control, etc. or openly, vocally disobeying and giving their children tacit permission to do the same?

Just wondering, how much credit or blame should go to the Catholic school vs. to the parents’ example…

Christine

 

[mom4truth]

Christine:

I think there are a couple things that define a good Catholic school upbringing. l) the faith starts in the home, with the parents who should be setting an exemplary example to their children. They should beging teaching the faith from birth on; cooperating with the Magisterium in ALL aspects - no cafeteria Catholics 2) choosing a Catholic school that adheres to the Magisterium. This can be a tough one. While many Catholic schools call themselves Catholic, they are anything but. I have first-hand experience in this. Teachers are not required to be Catholic. Many so-called Catholic teachings are not permissible according to the Magisterium. However, they may still be presented to the students. Again, I’ve experience this with my kids. With all that being said, if kids are truly grounded in their faith, then they can be successful in a Catholic school even if the school isn’t “truly” Catholic. But the kids must be very strong in their faith and values to overcome the sins of the this world. It’s a tough one, but it can be done. JMHO!

 

[valient_Lucy]

I don’t think the process of sending one’s child to a catholic school propells a parent towards NOT giving a child the education he otherwise would. Instead, I think parents that give their children no catholic formation would STILL be that way if there were no catholic schools or CCD.

So the presence of the school IMO has no negative effect on the parental educational motivation.

You’re probably right that people will be lazy or lukewarm, with or without schools. I’m just wondering if Catholic schools have given people the impression that it’s not their job to teach their children about the faith, or the idea that they’re incapable of doing it.

As for the school itself, it depends. A GOOD catholic school for kids with lukewarm parents who otherwise give no formation is better than nothing! A lousy catholic school (one where the behavior and teaching is NOT in compliance with the catechism and christian principles) CAN have a seriously negative effect. Such places unintentionally innoculate kids against catholicism rather than instruct them in it.

I agree with that. I’m a little worried in fact, about my cousin from a non-religious family, who is going to be attending a nominally Catholic high school.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Interesting… I wonder if the breakdown is happening at the high school level… when the teens are trying to be rebellious, kwim?

I see a big difference between Catholic education on the elementary/middle school levels and the high school level… at least locally.
This is why I’m personally EXTREMELY fond of the public high school experience (in our area)… sometimes teen “rebellion” in PUBLIC high schools can actually push kids TOWARDS religion… rather than having it forced on them by the school itself…

Just some thoughts and personal observations…

Interesting point, about the differences between a Catholic grade school and a high school level.

 

[eliza3b]

I’m just wondering if Catholic schools have given people the impression that it’s not their job to teach their children about the faith, or the idea that they’re incapable of doing it.

You bring up an interesting point here. One of the biggest criticisms of the Catholic school system, specifically the parish based Catholic school, is that it has alienated parents from their responsibility of teaching the Catholic faith to their children. The parents rely on the school to teach the faith, and many parents have had the same instruction as their children, by lay teachers or through CCD programs. They’ve been conditioned to believe that they are not as knowledgable as the DRE or the religion teacher because they lack a teaching degree or a masters in religious ed. It some ways it has made things more complicated than they perhaps should be.

 

[starobserver]

They are good if they focus on the values instead of money only and ‘‘Catholic’’ remains just a name.

 

[mom4truth]

Unfortunately, we can’t even count on values. It’s very sad and frustrating to see our Catholic schools in such disarray. I believe there is not much we can do about it except PRAY!

 

[BostonMyrtleBea]

I agree it can go both ways, but I think that if a family is going to teach the faith, they would do that in either case. Likewise, if they don’t teach the faith at home, they are not likely to change either way.

My parents never even took us to Mass (except rarely), but I remember them sending us out the door to Mass b/c of school.

Had I not gone to a Catholic school, I would have known nothing and had probably never gone to Mass, so I’m absolutley THANKFUL that we went! No doubt about it. I honestly don’t think I would have had ANY Catholic teaching at home even if I didn’t attend a Catholic school.

I feel so strongly about it that I am going to make sure my child (though not yet born) will attend a Catholic school.

I actually went back to my old parish on a visit home to stop into the rectory to tell them how much my education meant to me. Unfortunately, the convent was gone by then so I couldn’t tell the nuns directly

 

[Larowyn]

Catholic schools are not always good, even for Catholics. I was severely abused by teachers and classmates alike in a Catholic high school and was asked to leave over a few comparatively trivial things while many of my bullies and abusers remained there unpunished for all four years and went on to good colleges. The “supportive and understanding” staff and faculty took a dim view of my complaints of beatings from bigger boys and sexual harassment from girls and an openly homosexual boy and they went ignored.

 

[dandn5000]

I think so. I just think that their necessity diminishes with age of the student. They’re great for grade school, to get kids into the habit of living their faith all the time, and even in middle school they’re helpful, but once you hit high school and the teen years, they tend to become less important. From what I’ve heard from my friends, the Catholic high school my grade school feeds into is basically a public high school, but with nicer clothes and richer kids. They certainly aren’t any better morally, and the academic advantages tend to be because they can require college-track courses, while public schools can’t, so in public schools kids sometimes work under their potential.

 

[Bataar]

I think it depends on the school and more importantly, the archdiocese. After being homeschooled through my grade school years, I went to a Catholic high school. Academically, it was great, but it was not Catholic. The school taught that in some cases, abortion is ok, sex before marriage is okay as long as YOU think it is, homosexuality is okay, Adam and Eve are just symbols, non Catholics were not only permitted, but encouraged to take Communion at school Masses, you get the idea.

I am the only one I know that I still talk to that is a practicing Catholic. The people who were Catholic going in to that school have since dropped the faith and the non-Catholics I knew never picked up the faith. Some friends of my mom who sent their kids to another Catholic school basically said that if (again, referring to this archdiocese) you want your kids to learn to defend the faith, send them to a public school. If you want them to lose the faith, send them to Catholic school.

I’ve mentioned it in other similar threads on this board, but I’ve wondered what it would be like to sue the school or archdiocese in a secular court for false advertising. It doesn’t seem like it would be too difficult to get documented evidence of what the school is teaching and compare it with what it actual Catholic teaching.

 

[mom4truth]

Bataar:

Your post saddens me. Yet, I believe it’s true. What I cannot understand is why our bishops do not do anything about our Catholic schools. I wonder: why is that?

 

[Bataar]

Bataar:

Your post saddens me. Yet, I believe it’s true. What I cannot understand is why our bishops do not do anything about our Catholic schools. I wonder: why is that?

Honestly, I believe there is an agenda within the Church to destroy it from the inside. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but from some other things I’ve read about, it makes sense.

 

[Mystic_of_God]

I was lurking on a Protestant blog, and the poster discussed a Baptist church where the minister got rid of Sunday school. The minister said that the introduction of Sunday schools was actually controversial in the late 18th-early 19th century. He said one of the main reasons people opposed them was the fear that, if Sunday school was introduced, people would stop teaching their children about the faith. He found that, in his experience as a Protestant minister, that is exactly what has happened. He found, in his discussions with teenagers at his church, that they had received almost no religious instruction from their parents.

Don’t Catholic schools do the same thing? A parent could feel that, since they’ve enrolled their child in a Catholic school, they don’t need to worry about teaching their children the faith. After all, they are paying trained professionals to do it for them.

Do people feel that this has happened, or could happen, as a result of Catholic schools? Or do Catholic schools encourage and emphasize the fact that the parents must take an active roll to educate their children in the faith?

As a high school student in a Catholic school, I can tell you. Absolutely, Catholic schools are a good thing. Has the experience been positive? Absolutely. Has it assisted me in my faith? Yes. Have my parents neglected my education? No.

 

[SomeCatholicGuy]

I was lurking on a Protestant blog, and the poster discussed a Baptist church where the minister got rid of Sunday school. The minister said that the introduction of Sunday schools was actually controversial in the late 18th-early 19th century. He said one of the main reasons people opposed them was the fear that, if Sunday school was introduced, people would stop teaching their children about the faith. He found that, in his experience as a Protestant minister, that is exactly what has happened. He found, in his discussions with teenagers at his church, that they had received almost no religious instruction from their parents.

Don’t Catholic schools do the same thing? A parent could feel that, since they’ve enrolled their child in a Catholic school, they don’t need to worry about teaching their children the faith. After all, they are paying trained professionals to do it for them.

Do people feel that this has happened, or could happen, as a result of Catholic schools? Or do Catholic schools encourage and emphasize the fact that the parents must take an active roll to educate their children in the faith?

Personally, I think Catholic schools are a good thing. Whether the parents decide to teach their kids about the Catholic faith is not dependent upon the existence of Catholic schools, in my opinion. The parents who really care would see Catholic schools only as one of the many tools to teach their kids about Jesus.

That said, I do believe that there’re differences between various Catholic schools. Some parochial schools nowadays are fairly liberal. It is therefore important to find one that adheres to Church teachings. If one is not available in the area, it is perhaps best to homeschool the kids. Ultimately, however, I believe it is not dependent entirely upon which school the child attends, be it public school, Catholic school, or homeschool, but rather the parents’ role and responsibility in the life of a child they chose to bring into this world.

 

[Nurse_Joy]

One question is are catholic schools a good thing. That may or may not be true, probably is.

I think a better question is Are Catholic schools a good value? Then one must qulaify what the purpose of the school is in the first place, and then measure their success against that goal.

The answer to the second question in my opinion is that they are a terrible value.

First of all, they ‘touch’ almost no one when you look at them compared to the greater community. For the millions and millions of $$$ the parishes in my diocese shell out for the schools we could have, for example, a TV and radio stations that would be capable of reaching everyone.

Second and more importantly, besides assorted individual testimonials, the Catholic School industry never shows any sort of measurement that they “work”. That is, kids that have this experience are any more likely to show up at church as adults than anyone else. If they aren’t putting the faith in the kids, why do it?

 

[Joe_5859]

Bataar:

Your post saddens me. Yet, I believe it’s true. What I cannot understand is why our bishops do not do anything about our Catholic schools. I wonder: why is that?

Honestly, I believe there is an agenda within the Church to destroy it from the inside. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but from some other things I’ve read about, it makes sense.

Okay, you’re a conspiracy theorist.

I think, with things like this, it is always helpful to keep in mind the parable of the weeds and the wheat (Mt 13:24-30; 36-43). Some of us would have our bishops go through and uproot every weed in every diocese post-haste. That’s not always the best course of action.

I think a lot of our bishops are working to improve Catholic schools, but many times it is in ways that we do not see. Change often comes slowly, but it does happen.

To be fair, I do not think that most dissenters are trying to bring down the Church from the inside. In their mind, they are doing something good to help the Church. I agree that they are incorrect and their efforts can lead to bad things, but I don’t think they’re trying to be destructive.

Maybe I’m overly optimistic, but, when I’m tempted to be harsh on our bishops, I always remember that they are successors to the apostles and I am not. Of course, that doesn’t mean each and every decision they make is entirely above criticism. But I like to at least start off by extending them the benefit of the doubt that they have more information on the situation than I do, and that they are doing everything they can to help their people get to heaven.

 

[Joe_5859]

Second and more importantly, besides assorted individual testimonials, the Catholic School industry never shows any sort of measurement that they “work”. That is, kids that have this experience are any more likely to show up at church as adults than anyone else. If they aren’t putting the faith in the kids, why do it?

Absolutely! We need to make every effort to ensure that our Catholic Schools have a very strong Catholic identity.

• The school year should always begin with an all-school Mass, not a pep rally.
• The teachers should preferably actually be Catholic.
• It should also be stressed that every teacher has a responsibility to be a witness for the faith, and to catechize their students, whether they are the Biology teacher, the Math teacher, the Music teacher, or the History teacher. It’s not just a task that is relegated to the religion department.

Of course, it’s hard to generalize too much. There are some good Catholic schools out there. The ones I went to were not phenomenal, but they weren’t horrible either. They did a good enough job to keep me Catholic and none of the teachers espoused any heresy. I think many of the Catholic schools are also fighting an uphill battle with the secular culture. Many of my classmates lost their faith in high school, but it wasn’t because of the school. The teachers did teach the faith accurately for the most part. The students just didn’t agree with it.

 

[Sarabande]

I was lurking on a Protestant blog, and the poster discussed a Baptist church where the minister got rid of Sunday school…

Don’t Catholic schools do the same thing? A parent could feel that, since they’ve enrolled their child in a Catholic school, they don’t need to worry about teaching their children the faith. After all, they are paying trained professionals to do it for them.

Do people feel that this has happened, or could happen, as a result of Catholic schools? Or do Catholic schools encourage and emphasize the fact that the parents must take an active roll to educate their children in the faith?

I think it depends on the school and on the parent(s). There will be great Catholic schools which excel both academically and spiritually. What parent, who truly wants to give the best to their child in both spheres, wouldn’t want to send their children to a school like that? Then you have the Catholic schools that are just good academically and you can learn either hardly anything about your faith or learn totally the wrong things.

There are many parents who are good Catholics and want to do their best in raising them properly, but there are also parents who don’t feel like doing their part in the spiritual raising of a child. When I taught music and ran the children choir at a Catholic school there were many parents who sent their children to the school, but they didn’t show up for mass on Sundays. Those kids were getting conflicting messages. At the same time, even though the parents may not be doing their job, if the Catholic school is, that might help the child along in their faith.

I attended Catholic school from 2 1/2 to 16. My grade school was excellent academically, but only ok in religion. It didn’t do enough. We had religion class every morning and learned our prayers, etc. But we only had mass once a month and we learned nothing in the catechism. Confession was once a month, so that was good.

My Catholic high school was better. I really enjoyed my religion classes and biblical history classes, etc. We only had confession twice during the 1 1/2 years that I was at the school there. My parents transferred us to a public school due to finances. Academics were pretty much equal, but no religion classes. At that point I was already set in my religious beliefs.

My husband had a different experience. He attended public school till about 15 or 16. CCD was a total and major joke. Everyone I know who are from my generation and went to CCD - we grew up in the 80s and 90s - all agreed that CCD was a joke. They were usually taught by well-meaning mothers. In my husband’s experience it was more about secular humanism rather than religion, spirituality and the catechism.

His high school experience at a private, Catholic prep school was a different experience. He came across some very devout and wonderful teachers - one became a priest, another is in the seminary now. It was what brought him closer to God and to the Church. Although his parents went to mass every Sunday, they didn’t really supply much more than that other than morals, etc., so going to this private Catholic school was a wonderful thing. His older sisters didn’t have that and neither one are practicing Catholics.