Are Catholic supposed to address transgendered people by their new sex?

[LordHaveMercy]

Oh give me a break, stop acting like you speak for god.

Don’t worry, I only speak for myself

 

[LordHaveMercy]

You do not speak for God on this issue. You have no idea of his intentions when he created these trangender individuals. I would advise agaisnt speaking out for God in this way.

I’m not speaking out for God, just myself

I do know that God chose what sex they would have, and I’ll have to defer to Him when deciding what sex to call them. I would not want to offend or disturb this person, so I would likely avoid a situation where I needed to specify a sex.

 

[TruthSeeker319]

As a Catholic, I don’t believe that the “Archbishop” of Canterbury is an actual archbishop since Anglican orders are not in the proper line of apostolic succession, making them null and void.

But out of respect for The Most Reverend Justin Welby and for the Anglican Communion more generally, I will always refer to him by his recognised ecclesial title. The same applies to “female bishops and priests” in Episcopalian churches.

I approach transgendered people in a similar way. No, I do not in principle believe that a person can biologically change gender. XX and XY chromosomes don’t lie. (Still - biological chromosomal or hormonal disorders/hermpaphoroditism does exist, about 1 in 20,000 men has no Y chromosome, instead having 2 Xs.The equivalent situation - females who have XY instead of XX chromosomes - can occur for a variety of reasons and overall is similar in frequency).

But out of respect for the individual and so as not to cause uneccessary hurt, public disgrace, embarrassment or disrespect, I will refer to them by the gendered term they see fit.

If asked about my actual opinion of transgenderism, I would unreservedly explain Catholic doctrine regarding sexual identity.

Wow. This is an awesome reply! I’ve never thought of it this way. Thanks for this!

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

I just think God is so wise, and I’m so thankful for what he has created. I just couldn’t bring myself to offend Him by knowing that He created someone as one sex but choosing to call them a different sex. I know that God made a perfect decision when He lovingly stitched this man or woman together in their mother’s womb. but I would have to choose between offending them or offending God.

You assume that god is offended that these people consider themselves transgender. Do you have any canon law to back this up, any scripture or church teachings, any statements by the pope or clergy? Like a above poster said Pope Francis called a transgender man, a son of god.

 

[Usagi]

E.g. There is NO Caitlyn Jenner. He is Bruce Jenner with serious psychiatric issues.

People are certainly allowed to change their names. Caitlyn Jenner can be Caitlyn if she wants, and it would be rude to call her Bruce.

 

[LordHaveMercy]

You assume that god is offended that these people consider themselves transgender. Do you have any canon law to back this up, any scripture or church teachings, any statements by the pope or clergy? Like a above poster said Pope Francis called a transgender man, a son of god.

I didn’t say God is offended that these people call themselves transgender. I said I believe I would offend God if I were to choose what sex to call someone instead of the sex God gave them.

I’m not sure how it’s relevant, but Pope Francis has spoken out against gender theory, here is an example.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

I didn’t say God is offended that these people call themselves transgender. I said I believe I would offend God if I were to choose what sex to call someone instead of the sex God gave them.

I’m not sure how it’s relevant, but Pope Francis has spoken out against gender theory, here is an example.

Were talking about Gender not Sex. a transgender men is still female(Sex), but they identify as a women(gender)

Sex vs Gender, Your arguement just fell flat on itself.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

I didn’t say God is offended that these people call themselves transgender. I said I believe I would offend God if I were to choose what sex to call someone instead of the sex God gave them.

I’m not sure how it’s relevant, but Pope Francis has spoken out against gender theory, here is an example.

The pope is talking about teaching children they can change their gender. I am strongly agaisnt that but that is a different issue my friend.

 

[LordHaveMercy]

Were talking about Gender not Sex. a transgender men is still female(Sex), but they identify as a women(gender)

Sex vs Gender, Your arguement just fell flat on itself.

Right, I was very careful to use the word ‘sex’ because the sex that we belong to is primarily indicated by the bodies we are born with. When I use pronouns, I use the pronouns that correspond to a person’s sex. If I know that a person struggles to identify with his or her sex, I will generally avoid using pronouns if at all possible to not draw attention to the situation.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

Right, I was very careful to use the word ‘sex’ because the sex that we belong to is primarily indicated by the bodies we are born with. When I use pronouns, I use the pronouns that correspond to a person’s sex. If I know that a person struggles to identify with his or her sex, I will generally avoid using pronouns if at all possible to not draw attention to the situation.

Understood. I respect your position, I think I will have to agree to disagree though.

 

[joeybaggz]

People are certainly allowed to change their names. Caitlyn Jenner can be Caitlyn if she wants, and it would be rude to call her Bruce.

Unless I personally know them, I’m going to call everyone “Sparky.” Should end the problem.

By the way, if you’re in a public place and someone looks like a woman what else but Ms. or Ma’am would you call them. I don’t think they’ll be wearing signs on their forehead.

 

[Bookcat]

That works only if people believe “your truth” to be the only truth, and I can practically guarantee that someone who identifies as transgender does not.
And does a better job of alienating people than actually helping them come to the truth.

I don’t see any charity at all in your approach.

It is not about “my truth” and “your truth” but about truth.

There is the call of the relativism that is so present in our culture. I understand they have likely embraced that call…but that does not mean I will sing along with them that song.

Truth is what IS.

And Truth in the mind is when what is in ones mind conforms to what extra mental reality - conforms to what really is. Conforms to the reality that exists outside ones mind.

And the person is not the gender they have suggested they are. They cannot change the reality of their being male or female.

We are to live according to the truth…and yes with charity (we do not throw oranges…but love them and kindly not go along with their misconceptions…and certainly not go along with the war on the reality of male and female that has begun in our culture).

 

[Sarcelle]

It is not about “my truth” and “your truth” but about truth.

There is the call of the relativism that is so present in our culture. I understand they have likely embraced that call…but that does not mean I will sing along with them that song.

Truth is what IS.

And Truth in the mind is when what is in ones mind conforms to what extra mental reality - conforms to what really is. Conforms to the reality that exists outside ones mind.

And the person is not the gender they have suggested they are. They cannot change the reality of their being male or female.

We are to live according to the truth…and yes with charity (we do not throw oranges…but love them and kindly not go along with their misconceptions…and certainly not go along with the war on the reality of male and female that has begun in our culture).

But what if you refer to someone with their previous name and they correct you with their preferred name. What do you do? Insist on calling them by their old name and tell them that they are deluded?

It’s true but what does that accomplish?

 

[styrgwillidar]

We do not tell people with severe eating disorders or sever depression to snap out of it, or disrespesct them by telling them their feelings are crazy. If you believe thats its a mental health issue you should still show courtesy and compassion to transgender indviduals and adress them as their preffered gender. We can talk about these issues more generally and how to fix them, but with the high rates of suicide in the transgender community (The same as jews during the holocaust) we need to be careful and sensitive on how we talk to them or else it cost a life.

John 3:16

There should be mutual respect.

“The Emperor’s New Clothes” (Danish: Kejserens nye Klæder) is a short tale written by Danish author Hans Christian Andersen about two weavers who promise an emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent. When the Emperor parades before his subjects in his new clothes, no one dares to say that they don’t see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as “unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent”. Finally, a child cries out, “But he isn’t wearing anything at all!” - wikipedia

They should not insist I participate in and support their delusion by colluding with them in the denial of their sex.

It is demeaning, insulting and degrading to be forced to deny the truth. I will not be intimidated into doing so.

As others have said, I will call them by whatever name they choose with a smile. But I will use the pronouns (and actually try and avoid the issue by avoiding having to use pronouns) appropriate for their sex. Which was not assigned, it is an integral part of them and simply what they were born as.

“The Emperor’s New Clothes”?

We are living it, folks trying demean, belittle and even force others out of jobs for simply telling the truth, not going along with lies.

 

[Bookcat]

But what if you refer to someone with their previous name and they correct you with their preferred name. What do you do? Insist on calling them by their old name and tell them that they are deluded?

It’s true but what does that accomplish?

Who said I would do either?

Not sure what I would do exactly - for that is a “hic et nunc” question that has a very particular context that is not here an now - currently.

I only noted that I would not address them by their incorrect gender. I am not going to say what is true that is not.

Not going to lie to them for that would be contrary to truth

And to lie to them would also be contrary to my loving them.

Love the person - in truth and love and with gentleness.

 

[Bookcat]

A splendid quote:

"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived.

Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled in an arbitrary way. In a culture without truth, this is the fatal risk facing love. It falls prey to contingent subjective emotions and opinions…"

~ Pope Benedict XVI

CARITAS IN VERITATE

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate.html

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I doubt refusing to call someone by their preferred pro noun would encourage them to change their mind and would probably just put up barriers.

In practice I might find it awkward, I know of an old schoolmate who is transitioning, this individual is 6’3 and obviously masculine and harsh as it sounds I very much doubt anyone will ever look at this person and see a woman. There needs to be understanding on both sides, we should always treat people with respect but transgendered individuals need to understand that people can’t force themselves to see something they can’t see.

 

[Bookcat]

I doubt refusing to call someone by their preferred pro noun would encourage them to change their mind and would probably just put up barriers.

.

Just talk with them lovingly.

No need for putting up barriers.

But certainly I am not to lie to them - that creates a barrier and goes against loving them.

see above posts.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

Just talk with them lovingly.

No need for putting up barriers.

But certainly I am not to lie to them - that creates a barrier and goes against loving them.

see above posts.

Your not lying to them by showing compassion. When someone has depression, you do not tell them its all in their head and to man up.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

There should be mutual respect.

“The Emperor’s New Clothes” (Danish: Kejserens nye Klæder) is a short tale written by Danish author Hans Christian Andersen about two weavers who promise an emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent. When the Emperor parades before his subjects in his new clothes, no one dares to say that they don’t see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as “unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent”. Finally, a child cries out, “But he isn’t wearing anything at all!” - wikipedia

They should not insist I participate in and support their delusion by colluding with them in the denial of their sex.

It is demeaning, insulting and degrading to be forced to deny the truth. I will not be intimidated into doing so.

As others have said, I will call them by whatever name they choose with a smile. But I will use the pronouns (and actually try and avoid the issue by avoiding having to use pronouns) appropriate for their sex. Which was not assigned, it is an integral part of them and simply what they were born as.

“The Emperor’s New Clothes”?

We are living it, folks trying demean, belittle and even force others out of jobs for simply telling the truth, not going along with lies.

That is your right and prerogative. I highly doubt you know any transgender individuals. If you cause a suicide through your determined agenda of telling the “truth” well I will let God judge you.