Are Catholics allowed to refrute Islam?

[gmcbroom]

Why do I ask this. Simple. Since we as Catholics agree that Islam claims to be an Abrahamic Religion. We have to acknowledge that there is some truth in Islam do to this. Does that mean we’re allowed to refrute it? Why do I ask? They believe in God. Good so do we. But they don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus or the Trinity. In fact any who ascribe partners to God are unbelievers. To muslims Catholics are pagans. Worse they don’t believe in sacred tradition and they accept only that sacred scripture which shares their views, that being the Didache, but the bulk of it they view as corrupted. So this tends to lead me to believe that Islam and Christianity are not compatiable. They are opposed to each other. So how can I refrute them successfully? Or should I just let them believe as they believe and we believe as we believe?
sincerely,
gmcbroom

 

[Cat_Herder]

Yes. But we should accept that Allah is their understanding of the God of Abraham per CCC 841. Hence dialogue with Muslims should center on their misunderstandings about God rather than resemble, well, the kind of stuff you find in Chick tracts.

 

[ManOnFire]

Muhammed was raised by his uncle, Abu Talib, who was a scribe for the old and new testaments. His uncle would undoubtedly have had intimate knowledge of our Faith due to all his transcriptions into the local language, and it’s logical thay they had many conversations about it since they lived together. One or both men could have witnessed the objections to the faith by the locals, probably due to references to cannibalism. Muhammed could have dreamed an “improved” version of our religion. There were no witnesses, so how can we discern?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

But I cannot in good conscience accept what the Catechism says about Islam worshipping the same god as Christians and together with us they adore the one, merciful God…I find that part of the CCC disturbing. Not much has changed for me on that front.

Yes. But we should accept that Allah is their understanding of the God of Abraham per CCC 841. Hence dialogue with Muslims should center on their misunderstandings about God rather than resemble, well, the kind of stuff you find in Chick tracts.

 

[revert_jen]

Does that mean we’re allowed to refrute it?

Allowed by whom? The Church? Or society and/or the Muslims themselves? The Church exhorts us all to share the Gospel with others. Society is less happy about the idea.

So how can I refrute them successfully? Or should I just let them believe as they believe and we believe as we believe?

Well, it’s not exactly a question of refuting Islam. It is a question of sharing the Truth with them. If they are receptive, share the love of Christ with them in words. If they are not receptive to hearing the Truth, show them the love of Christ in your actions–treating them with respect, and desiring their good. Knowing the Truth is for their good, but the most powerful thing you can do to effect that change is to pray for them.

As for letting them believe as they believe–generally you don’t have a lot of choice. You can’t make them change.

There are books that have been written about the most effective ways of evangelizing Muslims. I believe it is very difficult in general, since a refutation of Christianity is to some extent built in, since the founders of Islam were familiar with the New Testament and could build arguments against Christianity into the religion from the start. In addition, the Trinity is an extremely difficult thing to understand, and humans aren’t capable in this life of fully understanding it. If it is understood improperly, it is very easy for it to sound like paganism.

In general, I think your best preparation for evangelization of anyone is to know your faith as well as possible, and to pray for them before speaking to them.

–Jen

 

[Jehoshua]

Of course we can refute and correct the errors of Islam, in fact it is imperative that we do so. Since when has the Church said we should let heresy and falsehood go unchallenged and uncorrected by the truth.

---

As to the catechism it is merely a compendium of church teaching, not dogma in and of itself and historically it had to be edited extensively after original compilation due to the gross heresy that the original contained. Perhaps the particular passage regarding Islam and God is merely badly worded as a leftover from the original errors in the compilation process, afterall it would be ignorant to deny that there is a modernistic/liberal/relativist heretical faction within the church that seeks to corrupt and destroy the truth and the Catholic Faith.

That is of course not to deny that the catechism on the whole is an excellent source of Church teaching and to denigrate it on the possible error of certain small passages would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater so to speak in denying the usefulness of the greater whole of the rest of the book.

 

[Sam_777]

Since we as Catholics agree that Islam claims to be an Abrahamic Religion. We have to acknowledge that there is some truth in Islam do to this.

Satan was a second sphere angel, does that mean that there is some truth in his words!

Islam is nothing but an earthy law, same as other secular laws, all have some truth in them…

So how can I refrute them successfully?

Simply read the hadiths and you would find many things that show the discrepancy of Islam.

 

[Jerusha]

We have every right to present a refutation of any religion whose believers persistently attack us. If they were confident enough in their beliefs, they would not find it necessary to do so.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I agree, its a matter of remaining in a state of respect also. You can be 100% in disageement with Islam as a religion.

I know this is easier said than done, especially after a couple coffee’s in the morning and another terrorist bombing on Catholic Priests. Nonetheless, two wrongs won’t make a right.

 

[jakasaki]

Muhammed was raised by his uncle, Abu Talib, who **was a scribe for the old and new testaments. **

Where did you get this information from…??

Abu Talib was born a pagan & died a pagan.

Even on this death bed, mohamad was asking his unclie Abu to leave his pagan beliefs and come to allahs and follow the religion of islam.

Abu did not do so, therefore he died a pagan.

 

[tomarin]

Why do I ask this. Simple. Since we as Catholics agree that Islam claims to be an Abrahamic Religion. We have to acknowledge that there is some truth in Islam do to this. Does that mean we’re allowed to refrute it?

I think that we as Catholics believe that Mohammad was a false prophet. Therefore whatever the religion he founded teaches, it is not based on divine revelation. They may believe in God but they do so imperfectly because they reject Christ’s divinity (as well as many other things that are foundational to Christianity).

As for how you can refute them, there are a number of apologetics publications devoted to that question, some of them available through Catholic Answers.

 

[Big_Dummy]

I read somewhere that Abu Talib was an Ebionite.

 

[faith4christ]

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,

Hebrews 13:9 Be not led away with various and strange doctrines. For it is best that the heart be established with grace, not with meats; which have not profited those that walk in them.

From What JESUS said here in these 2 passages,we are only to believe what we are taught and not that of other religious beliefs, further in the quar’an (No I’m not muslim) it commands that all islam respect the people of the book,those people are both the Jewish and CHRISTians, Seeing that a lot of muslims don’t even pay attention to their own Holy book how can we refute them on our behalf?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

And because they reject the Trinitarian God, reject the sonship of Our Lord Jesus, and have an altered form of the Fall and salvation and God’s interactions with humanity I cannot in good conscience support CCC 841 of the catechism.

I think that we as Catholics believe that Mohammad was a false prophet. Therefore whatever the religion he founded teaches, it is not based on divine revelation. They may believe in God but they do so imperfectly because they reject Christ’s divinity (as well as many other things that are foundational to Christianity).

As for how you can refute them, there are a number of apologetics publications devoted to that question, some of them available through Catholic Answers.

 

[ManOnFire]

Where did you get this information from…??

Abu Talib was born a pagan & died a pagan.

Even on this death bed, mohamad was asking his unclie Abu to leave his pagan beliefs and come to allahs and follow the religion of islam.

Abu did not do so, therefore he died a pagan.

Wikipedia. But Abu Talib’s religion is less consequential than his ability to tell Muhammed about the information contained in the old and new testaments. Of course, I’m assuming that Abu learned about the Faith while recopying the OT and NT. I don’t see how anyone can translate and recopy and not learn. Both men could then have deep discussions and opinions on the Faith relative to the local perception. Talib lost his sight in his old age but told Muhammed that he wished he could still see so he could record his story. Talib’s religion isn’t really the point of the post. The point is that Muhammed could have been trying to improve on ours, but dreams can’t be proven.

I can’t remember the book or verse, but Jesus said (paraphrasing) “Many will come after me, proclaiming to be me. Do not believe them.” Timothy?

That said, I hope we have peace with all people.

 

[jakasaki]

Wikipedia. But Abu Talib’s religion is less consequential than his ability to tell Muhammed about the information contained in the old and new testaments. Of course, I’m assuming that Abu learned about the Faith while recopying the OT and NT. I don’t see how anyone can translate and recopy and not learn. Both men could then have deep discussions and opinions on the Faith relative to the local perception. Talib lost his sight in his old age but told Muhammed that he wished he could still see so he could record his story. Talib’s religion isn’t really the point of the post. The point is that Muhammed could have been trying to improve on ours, but dreams can’t be proven.

I can’t remember the book or verse, but Jesus said (paraphrasing) “Many will come after me, proclaiming to be me. Do not believe them.” Timothy?

That said, I hope we have peace with all people.

Based on what you just posted, this is not mohamads uncle Abu Talib, insted it is Waraqa.

Waraqa was one of the sons of Khadija’s uncle.

Khadija was mohamads first wife.

Before islam was established by mohamad, it was Waraqa who became a Christian & it was he to used to write the Gospels in Arabic and it was Waraqa who in later years lost his eyesight. It was not Abu Talib…

 

[ManOnFire]

Based on what you just posted, this is not mohamads uncle Abu Talib, insted it is Waraqa.

Waraqa was one of the sons of Khadija’s uncle.

Khadija was mohamads first wife.

Before islam was established by mohamad, it was Waraqa who became a Christian & it was he to used to write the Gospels in Arabic and it was Waraqa who in later years lost his eyesight. It was not Abu Talib…

If the reference was wrong, then I apologize for the reference. I’ll see if I can find it…

 

[losh14]

Glad I found this thread, this is exactly on my mind right now.

I was invited to lunch by a Muslim coworker, a nice guy and we’ve had some good conversations. I was expecting a conversation on our personal spirituality and our experience - instead, it was like an Islamic version of the “Roman Road” that the Campus Crusade for Christ evangelists walked around the dorm using. I did some research here and found “The Call of the Minaret”:

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9204fea1.asp

This read just like a script and its exactly what my coworker said, down to citing Deut 18:18 to refer to Mohammed. Although what’s interesting is that he said this is a proof text that any prophet who says a falsehood is not a prophet. So when Jesus said “Before Abraham was, I AM”, was Jesus lying or was He being a prophet? Wish I would have thought of that at the itme …

So how to refute him … that’s what I’m going to spend some time working on. He challenged me, specifically, on Jesus’ divinity, asking essentially where does Jesus say that He is God? I’m ashamed to say i wasn’t ready, and my best refutation was Jesus statement “Before Abraham was, I AM” (Jn 8:58) but I also argued that Revelation holds that Jesus will return to judge the quick and the dead, defeat Satan, and reign forever. Also that the 12 Elders bowed down before the Lamb of God (whom we coequate with Jesus).

But as I think on it, the exchange was again one of those proselytic “scripts” rather than a true conversation. Really disappointing. And he paid for lunch so I told him I’d treat next time … well, we need a follow-up.

Anyway, back to point. Yes, we do need to correct and refute the errors in Islam. Partly to affirm ourselves in faith, partly to defend others, and mostly because when the Truth is challenged it must be defended.

 

[prodigal-sun]

And because they reject the Trinitarian God, reject the sonship of Our Lord Jesus, and have an altered form of the Fall and salvation and God’s interactions with humanity I cannot in good conscience support CCC 841 of the catechism.

Then by the same reasoning you must also believe that the Jewish people also worship a different God.

Peace!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’ve heard this argument before. Nope. If you read Genesis, God says “we” when he speaks, sounds trinitarian enough for me already. Then if you look, Catholics and Jews believe in the same salvation history up until Christ whereas the Muslims believe in an alternative route. The Fall is a different account and outcome, the situation with Abraham and Ishmael different, and Jesus is mischaracterized. In the Old Testament Christ is not present at all but we see Him in prophecy. So looking at the holy writings and character of God, we have common ground. Would I say that at this point Jews misunderstand the nature of God? You bet! If God is Trinity and they refuse to accept it and His Son, yes, then in effect, we do worship different gods. But as far as salvation history prior to the advent of our Lord, we have the same understanding of God. Muslims never did.

Peace back atcha!

Then by the same reasoning you must also believe that the Jewish people also worship a different God.

Peace!