Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

[trdchubi]

That is not the root cause of anti-semitism. Before I tell you the real root, let me comment on that article you cite.

The quotes do not list the letters these statements are from. They only list books written by other people. They should have mentioned the document for each quote so I can confirm its veracity.

However, you could say it is right about the Council of Elvira and in a sense that is still true today. Practicing Jews also prefer their children marry Jews. No big deal, both sides have their reasons.

The info about council of Nicea is sort of correct but it was Constantine that was angry at the Jews for the reasons stated below. And BTW, the date of Easter was not really changed; it was set to a uniform date* (Christians were celebrating Easter on different dates)* and Constantine gave his opinion that the chosen date should not coincide the Passover(some Christians were celebrating Easter on what we now call Good Friday).

So as an aside, all Christians today celebrate Easter on the Sunday after Good Friday because of the Council of Nicea. (Oh, Oh! the Protestants celebrate Easter on the Sunday after Good Friday because the Catholic Church said so.)

Now for the true root cause:

1. Shortly after the crucifixion of Jesus the Temple was destroyed as retaliation from the Romans for not only revolting against the Empire but also defeating the Romans in a battle during the revolt.
2. After the Crucifixion of Jesus, the Roman Empire began to collapse, facing similar problems that we are dealing with today.
3. When Constantine took control of the entire Empire he made the observation that only his fourth of the Empire did not persecute the Christians. Neither him nor his father.
4. He came to the conclusion that he was given the entire Empire by the Christian God because he and his father did not persecute the Christians.
5. He eventually came to the conclusion that the Jews and the Romans were punished for the Crucifixion.
6. He believed the Jews had gone crazy after having killed their own God and that is why they revolted.
7. He believed the Roman Empire was collapsing because of its part in the Crucifixion.
8. Constantine then blamed the Jews for the problems of the Roman Empire. He believed they should have recognized their own God and He was angry the Jews had gotten them involved.

As pagans began to come into the Christian Church many harbored this belief. And so that is when people began to blame Jews when things went bad. That is the root of people saying things like “Hey, the economy is bad. It must be the Jews’ fault.”

Of course we can not say that in fact the Jews and the Romans were punished by God for the crucifixion. But it is true that both did suffer after the Crucifixion. I am also not saying Constantine was correct in what he believed, but the evidence shows that is what he believed.

But the bottom line these anti-semites are just jerks looking to find scapegoats. In the past these types of bad Catholics have become groups like atheistic socialists and then persecute the Catholics in places like Spain, Mexico, Cuba, Poland, Russia, etc.

The question is still in effect. An intensely negative attitude towards the Jews developed in many early church leaders. How did this all come about?

One argument states that the Church fathers may have had a considerable amount of first hand experience on how Jews persecuted the Christians. The Sub-apostolic fathers, Pre-Nicene fathers and Post-Nicene fathers may have their fair share of this religious hatred.

Christians resorted to the old attitude of “an Eye for an eye” which Jews are well known. It is not surprisingly evident that they returned the hatred of the Jews with hatred. (Remember some church fathers were still exposed to Jewish culture and teachings).

When the early Christians saw the destruction of the temple in 70 AD when one million Jews were killed, and the suppression of the Bar Kochba rebellion in 135 AD they concluded that these are well-deserved examples of God’s punishment on the Jews, ‘Christ killers’ as they fondly called them. They considered God had finished with the Jews and now the church had replaced them in his plan, thus the false doctrine of superssesionism.

Yes, Constantine was a pivotal contributor to anti Semitism inside the Roman Empire and of Europe. Once the church got the power of the state on their side, it is not surprising the Christians started to persecute the Jews and anti-Semitism took the character that it has had ever since.

With this Hatred made by the early Church Fathers, some of Christians particularly Catholics of today purposefully subscribe to the idea of anti semitism without actually knowing the real reason why, as if it is an official doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I guess, we are just so fond of blaming Jews for every adversity that beset mankind and the world that includes the current economic woes we are experiencing right now. Now that is foolish.

 

[Hail_Linus]

The question is still in effect. An intensely negative attitude towards the Jews developed in many early church leaders. How did this all come about?

One argument states that the Church fathers may have had a considerable amount of first hand experience on how Jews persecuted the Christians. The Sub-apostolic fathers, Pre-Nicene fathers and Post-Nicene fathers may have their fair share of this religious hatred.

Christians resorted to the old attitude of “an Eye for an eye” which Jews are well known. It is not surprisingly evident that they returned the hatred of the Jews with hatred. (Remember some church fathers were still exposed to Jewish culture and teachings).

When the early Christians saw the destruction of the temple in 70 AD when one million Jews were killed, and the suppression of the Bar Kochba rebellion in 135 AD they concluded that these are well-deserved examples of God’s punishment on the Jews, ‘Christ killers’ as they fondly called them. They considered God had finished with the Jews and now the church had replaced them in his plan, thus the false doctrine of superssesionism.

Yes, Constantine was a pivotal contributor to anti Semitism inside the Roman Empire and of Europe. Once the church got the power of the state on their side, it is not surprising the Christians started to persecute the Jews and anti-Semitism took the character that it has had ever since.

With this Hatred made by the early Church Fathers, some of Christians particularly Catholics of today purposefully subscribe to the idea of anti semitism without actually knowing the real reason why, as if it is an official doctrine of the Catholic Church.

I guess, we are just so fond of blaming Jews for every adversity that beset mankind and the world that includes the current economic woes we are experiencing right now. Now that is foolish.

1. It is important to see the entire documents of those quotes to understand the context. and to see if they are accurate. As I pointed out, the articles description of Easter was completely wrong and not supported by the facts. If the author got that wrong who is to say he did get those quote wrongs. I can’t tell you how many times I have followed the trail of citations I have found things taken out of context are things that were just plain wrong. Furthermore, even on this forum I often see people post these one liners and when I search the phrases on my database I am unable to find their existence.
2. However, when Jews began to distance themselves from Christians and say Christianity was not part of the Jewish religion (at least a sect) Christianity lost the legal protections the Jews had. Judaism was a legal religion and while they were disliked they were not persecuted. In other words, the Christians were left to fend for themselves.
3. If one believes that Jesus is God then it is not unreasonable to conclude the Jews killed God Temple was destroyed as punishment. Furthermore, In Isiah God does say that he despised the sacrifices in the Temple. Also, Israel was not really conquered. They made an alliance with the Romans (while they were still a Republic) to Protect them from Alexander the Greats offspring (see I Maccabees for the history). God had forbidden them from making them an alliance of this kind.
4. The early Christians did not persecute the Jews. There was no “eye for an eye”. As I stated in my first response, the pagan that converted to Christianity harbored resentment for the Jews since they probably had the same belief that Constantine did that the Empire had been punished for the persecution Christians. Additionally, the Pagans always hated the Jews as they hated the Christians for the their refusal to practices syncretism and they still harbored that resentment even after conversion.

 

[chosen_people]

1. It is important to see the entire documents of those quotes to understand the context. and to see if they are accurate. As I pointed out, the articles description of Easter was completely wrong and not supported by the facts. If the author got that wrong who is to say he did get those quote wrongs. I can’t tell you how many times I have followed the trail of citations I have found things taken out of context are things that were just plain wrong. Furthermore, even on this forum I often see people post these one liners and when I search the phrases on my database I am unable to find their existence.
2. However, when Jews began to distance themselves from Christians and say Christianity was not part of the Jewish religion (at least a sect) Christianity lost the legal protections the Jews had. Judaism was a legal religion and while they were disliked they were not persecuted. In other words, the Christians were left to fend for themselves.
3. If one believes that Jesus is God then it is not unreasonable to conclude the Jews killed God Temple was destroyed as punishment. Furthermore, In Isiah God does say that he despised the sacrifices in the Temple. Also, Israel was not really conquered. They made an alliance with the Romans (while they were still a Republic) to Protect them from Alexander the Greats offspring (see I Maccabees for the history). God had forbidden them from making them an alliance of this kind.
4. The early Christians did not persecute the Jews. There was no “eye for an eye”. As I stated in my first response, the pagan that converted to Christianity harbored resentment for the Jews since they probably had the same belief that Constantine did that the Empire had been punished for the persecution Christians. Additionally, the Pagans always hated the Jews as they hated the Christians for the their refusal to practices syncretism and they still harbored that resentment even after conversion.

Here we have in your post the concept of “the Jews” as “Christ Killers” and the concept of “the Jews” as cursed for rejecting the Christian god - both central points in the development of Catholic anti-Semitism. The two come together in the concept that this “rejection” of the Christian god prevented “the Jews” from being absolved of the sin of being “Christ Killers” and therefore the sin was passed from generation to generation among “the Jews”.This was the underlying reason for the Jesuit Order requiring, until 1946, that anyone wishing to join the Order, need show that they have no Jewish blood back 5 generations. Similar Catholic blood purity rules prevented Christians with “Jewish blood” from holding public office, teaching or studying or being entitled to charitable support from the parish (see: “Los Estatutos de Limpieza de Sangre”)

 

[chosen_people]

Chosen People, what if I went to a Jewish site in which it was being discussed whether Judaism was anti-Christian and, without further commentary, posted accounts of evils perpetrated by Jewish leaders upon Christians, whether the persecution of the early Church with all the martyrdoms or claims of the suffering of Palestinian Christians under Israeli occupation or whatever else? I doubt you would find it helpful to the discussion. It would just make Christians look authentically anti-Jewish and ferment any latent anti-Christian sentiment among Jews reading it.

No one is excusing individual abuses or bad policies towards Jews that certain Christian leaders adopted in the past. There can even be a time and a place for looking at these things together and vowing that they must never happen again. But simply throwing past abuses into the faces of the other group while they are taking pains to condemn such past mistakes and adopt a positive attitude towards you is only going to be counterproductive. This dialogue and reconciliation really has to be two-sided. If one side is always bending over backwards to please the other while that other is always casting renewed criticism at its former critics, how long can good relations likely to continue? Not that positive statements aren’t sometimes made by Jewish leaders, but we need more of that and less of this kind of thing. We don’t need to sweep the past under the rug, but we need to stop using it as ammunition to discredit one another.

The Romans fed Christians to the lions. The Roman Christians were involved in the persecution and rejection of the original Christians - the Ebionites. The Roman Christians and the Arian Christians were involved in mutual infighting resulting in the death of tens of thousands of Christians on both sides until the Roman Christians finally gained the upper hand, and political power, in the fourth century of the common era. Almost immediately they began promulgating laws aimed against the Jews.

Between 66 c.e - 135 c.e the Jews were involved in uprisings against Rome which led to the deaths of one third of the Jewish people. Whenever I ask about the extent of persecution by Jews of Christians (what period? how many Christians were killed? what are the sources for information of these persecutions and do they include non Christian sources? Are the laws and acts against the Jews a result of “revenge” for these “'persecutions”? If so, are acts of revenge compatible with Catholicism and at what point, if ever, is the “account” settled?) I never receive a clear authoritative answer. We Jews are of course bound by Torah and God’s commandments (see Vayikra/Leviticus 19:17 - 18 which obligates us to not hate or take revenge or bear a grudge and to love your fellow as yourself).

From “Jews and Judaism” Original Catholic Encyclopedia

"The obligation of wearing a distinguishing badge was of course obnoxious to the Jews. At the same time, Church authorities deemed its injunction necessary to prevent effectively moral offenses between Jews and Christian women. The decrees forbidding the Jews from appearing in public at Easter-tide may be justified on the ground that some of them mocked at the Christian processions at that time; those against baptized Jews retaining distinctly Jewish customs find their ready explanation in the necessity for the Church to maintain the purity of the Faith in its members, while those forbidding the Jews from molesting converts to Christianity are no less naturally explained by the desire of doing away with a manifest obstacle to future conversions.

It was for the laudable reason of protecting social morality and securing the maintenance of the Christian Faith, that canonical decrees were framed and repeatedly enforced against free and constant intercourse between Christians and Jews, against, for instance, bathing, living, etc., with Jews. To some extent, likewise, these were the reasons for the institution of the Ghetto or confinement of the Jews to a special quarter, for the prohibition of the Jews from exercising medicine, or other professions. The inhibition of intermarriage between Jews and Christians, which is yet in vigor, is clearly justified by reason of the obvious danger for the faith of the Christian party and for the spiritual welfare of the children born of such alliances. With regard to the special legislation against printing, circulating, etc., the Talmud, there was the particular grievance that the Talmud contained at the time scurrilous attacks upon Jesus and the Christians (cf. Pick, “The Personality of Jesus in the Talmud” in the “Monist”, January, 1910), and the permanent reason that “that extraordinary compilation, with much that is grave and noble, contains also so many puerilities, immoral precepts, and anti-social maxims, that Christian courts may well have deemed it right to resort to stringent measures to prevent Christians from being seduced into adhesion to a system so preposterous” (Catholic Dictionary, 484).

History proves indeed that church authorities exercised at times considerable pressure upon the Jews to promote their conversion;"

 

[Anna_Scott]

1. It is important to see the entire documents of those quotes to understand the context. . . .

Hail_Linus,

This is a very offensive post on so many levels, I don’t even know where to start.

Anna

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

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