Are Catholics really Catholic?

[po18guy]

I’m reading what everyone is posting and there is some good stuff here. I’d like to touch on the bishops, because they were brought up. We must be very careful when speaking about our bishops, for a number of reasons. I’ll go into them one at a time. Regardless of their flaws, they remain the successors of the Apostles. Whatever their flaws, they are not our peers.

Brotherly correction so noted and taken. Thank you.

But the point really is that I think it is incumbent on us to be deferential to the point of near totality to bishops when they talk about faith and morals. When they start talking politics; the choices a secular polity might make that could have this result or that, and realizing there are always unexpected consequences of anything that happens in the secular world, no matter how well-intentioned it might seem on the surface, then I feel free to depart from their counsel even when there is some potential, but uncertain, relationship to faith and morals.

This was actually my exact point. Now, in the various failures of the Church (beginning with my own), fault lies somewhere. It is in finding this fault and repairing not only the fault, but any succeeding damage it has done, that our attention should rightly be directed. But, in the case of the Church hierarchy, who holds them to the standard? This is our moral quandary: when prudential judgment fails at the leadership level, who should call it out, and how?

It is not the Church or her teaching that has failed - but her members at whatever level they operate. The balancing act here is to call any failures of judgment to the fore, while doing so charitably and respectfully. The prudential judgment errors of the USCCB, some egregious, must be brought to light. But how? Our acquiescence and silence become sin at some point.

 

[JReducation]

When it comes to the role of bishops in our lives, I think this is where the modern day Catholic falls off the Catholic pew. We keep avoiding the faith question.

“Are these or are they not the successors of the Apostles?”

When we put this question out of mind, then it is easy for us not to show them the respect that is due to an Apostle in the manner that we deal with them or speak about them.

“Am I or am I not going to comply with canon law?”

Here again, there is the dirty word, “obedience.” Canon law is what it is. How can I be Catholic and select the canons that I obey? One canon says that abortion is an excommunicable offense and I comply with it. Another canon says that I must show reverence toward all bishops, without exception. However, I ignore that one. The truth is that both are canons of the Catholic Church and both are equally binding, because in law there is no such thing as one law being more binding than another, unless it is stated in the law itself.

“Do I or do I not understand that the saints have been given to us by the Holy Spirit to teach us how to be better Christians? If so, why do I keep pushing away their example?”

Once again, we drop the ball. We like our plaster of Paris saints, because they don’t talk. They simply stand on a pedestal and look pretty. We don’t take lessons from our flesh and blood saints who lived in difficult times and had to deal with many bishops pleasant and unpleasant, but never said a negative thing about any of the unpleasant and obeyed every bishop equally. When they disagreed, they did so very privately. Our flesh and blood saints are not what we like and not the people that we want to imitate. In short, we waste the gift that the Holy Spirit gives us, because he raises up saints for our edification, yet we do not imitate them.

Setting aside these three points makes us less Catholic; but we don’t want to admit that and we find all kinds of explanations for our position. The goal here is to get past our explanations and back on track with what has been the tradition of the Catholic man or woman. Our great saints knew that bishops had flaws. They also understood that bishops were citizens of nations and as citizens, they had positions on the issues of their time and place. The saints were keenly aware that temporal matters had indeed become part of the role of a bishop since the first century of the Church. The Apostles not only taught faith and morals, but they also intervened in temporal affairs of state and the local community. The beauty of the saints is their faith. They have always accepted the presence of the bishop in all matters, not just faith and morals. But this did not deter them from holiness. On the contrary, as St. Francis wrote to the people of his time, “obedience is pleasing to God and man.” He went on to speak of the importance of pleasing both and the moral duty to do so, except in cases of sin. The man who obeys is closer to Christ than the man who holds on to his opinions. The man who puts others above him is like the man in scripture who takes the last place and is given the first place in the Kingdom of God.

The point is that regardless of what we believe, God has given us bishops, canons and saints and he will hold us accountable for our fidelity to them, because they are means to holiness. God does not give us the option to pick and choose our means to holiness. He gives us the means for our good. He wants us to use them, for our good. He knows what is best for us, much better than we know. To be truly Catholic, we must embrace what God has given to us, especially as a means to holiness. To avoid using these means is like the man in the parable of the talent who buries the talent. The means that God gives us are talents. We must ask ourselves if we are using them wisely.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Brotherly correction so noted and taken. Thank you.

This was actually my exact point. Now, in the various failures of the Church (beginning with my own), fault lies somewhere. It is in finding this fault and repairing not only the fault, but any succeeding damage it has done, that our attention should rightly be directed. But, in the case of the Church hierarchy, who holds them to the standard? This is our moral quandary: when prudential judgment fails at the leadership level, who should call it out, and how?

It is not the Church or her teaching that has failed - but her members at whatever level they operate. The balancing act here is to call any failures of judgment to the fore, while doing so charitably and respectfully. The prudential judgment errors of the USCCB, some egregious, must be brought to light. But how? Our acquiescence and silence become sin at some point.

The great saints, such as Catherine of Siena have taught us how to do this, but few people are learning from them. Catherine, for example, would dictate wonderful letters to the bishops and popes. However, guess what?

Catherine often castigated those of her followers who dared to speak a word against the bishops or the pope in the public square. She took two positions. First, these men are not our children and we have no right to them as such. If we speak well of our children, even when correcting them and punishing them in private, so much more so should we be toward our bishops and pope.

Her second position was very close to her first. She was a daughter of the Church. Whatever they (hierarchy decided) she agreed to obey, even if it was wrong (not sin). No human being is flawless; but not everything that is wrong is a sin. We can live with it.

You also have someone like St. Francis, whom I mentioned many times. Francis has also taught us the answer to your question. To obey, even when we know better, is not a sin, as long as what we obey is not a call to sin. To obey what we know is less than perfect is actually a great opportunity for sacrifice and penance. It is easy to obey when we know that the person in authority is right. It requires much humility to submit when we know that we are right and authority is wrong. But this was precisely the humilty of Christ. Pilate was wrong and Jesus was right. Francis taught was that our goal was not to correct Pilate, but to be like Jesus.

Then there are modern day saints like Maximilian Kolbe who abhored the horrors of Naziism, but ordered his brothers under penalty of mortal sin to receive every Nazi soldier with great love and to sacrifice themselves to the point that the brothers often gave up their food to feed the solidies who came through the friary. Maximilian understood the difference between sin and authority. The horrors against the Jews, Muslims, gays, handicapped and other select groups were sins that could not be condoned, much less supported. He communicated this to anyone who would listen. But he never made a public statement about it. His statements were always politely expressed in writing or in one-on-one conversations. When confronted with the unjust death of a man in the concentration camp, Maximilian did not make a public discourse. Witnesses tell us that he quietly walked up to the person in authority and began with, "Forgive me, . . . " then proceeded to make his case. He showed respect for his captors, because they were persons in authority; but that did not stop him from doing what was right or teaching them. He simply applied what he had learned from the saints before him. He made his case with great love and few words.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[simple_soul]

*The way I see it, Br. JR please correct me if I am wrong, the Church is our Mother, the leaders of our Church are our Fathers and the Fifth Commandment says to honor thy Father and Mother. Would/should this commandment also apply to our Spiritual Mothers and Fathers as well as our biological Mothers and Fathers? *

 

[fred410]

wow, 3 pages of activity on this post (only read first page)

anyway JReducation: you are so right about those who state they are catholic, but sadly dont live it.

i am a new catholic revert - and have visited many parishes in my area. the level of holiness or better said - authenticity - of the congregation varies.

in searching for a parish to join, i try to look past this, as i view the people authenticity reflects the point of their spiritual journey.

anyway, i would like to get active in some parish where i can help educate these people encourage them in leading a catholic life.

thanks, rich

 

[JReducation]

wow, 3 pages of activity on this post (only read first page)

anyway JReducation: you are so right about those who state they are catholic, but sadly dont live it.

i am a new catholic revert - and have visited many parishes in my area. the level of holiness or better said - authenticity - of the congregation varies.

in searching for a parish to join, i try to look past this, as i view the people authenticity reflects the point of their spiritual journey.

anyway, i would like to get active in some parish where i can help educate these people encourage them in leading a catholic life.

thanks, rich

Do not look for the level of holiness of your brothers and sisters when you visit a parish or participate in the liturgy. Instead, focus on Holiness himself. True contemplation is not about what others see or do not see. True contemplation is about our search for Him. Regardless of whether the Church is as quiet as a grave or as noisy as a barnyard, the fact is that God is present, if we just look for him.

I have often found God in those who appear to be godless. Currently, in my own ministry I’m finding him among men who have been convicted of great crimes. They are now free, after having served their prison sentences. They are alone and lonely. They come to us to find someone who will love them and not judge them by their actions. It’s funny, what originally brings these men to me is that they are going to be dads and have no jobs, clothing, food, cribs or other goodies for their babies. They come looking for material help, which I try to provide through the generous donations that parishioners around the diocese give to us. But I spend a lot of time with these men. We sit and talk for long periods of time.

Most of them keep coming back. Gradually, they keep asking about God. I don’t try to preach to them. But they hear the voice of God through our charity and our kindness. One of my friends always says that he the grey habit that I wear is so neutral that these men don’t feel anything when they come. This is good, because they can begin a relationship with another person without an agenda. It’s like beginning with a blank slate. But I too go into these meetings and conversations with a blank slate. I’m not looking at them, but looking through them and I’m moved to tears to find Jesus smiling, waiting to be loved and to be called forward. So when you go among your brothers and sisters, go as a blank slate. You want nothing and you’re not there to judge. You’re there to see Christ. Then sit back and wait, Love will find its way to you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF