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Balaco
Guest
Must we engage in these types of prayer, or are we free to pray to God as we wish if it is within Catholic guidelines?
Are Catholics required to engage in meditation/the 9 levels of prayer?
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Bookcat
Guest
You are free.
One may pray in many ways.
And many different legit Catholic spiritualities and schools of thought …
Of course we never leave the Lords Prayer
One may pray in many ways.
And many different legit Catholic spiritualities and schools of thought …
Of course we never leave the Lords Prayer
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Bookcat
Guest
Part 4 of the Catechism (Christian Prayer) gives a rich text regarding prayer
scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
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Bookcat
Guest
Or the more brief Compendium
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html (again part 4)
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html (again part 4)
po18guy
Well-known member
Opinion alert!!! We hear a lot about “centering prayer” these days, and some of its adherents are vociferous in their support. Emptying of the self and walking labyrinths and such. Since it has similarities to non-Christian practices, Buddhism and parts of new-age particularly, I avoid it. The Catholic faith is the richest, most varied and nuanced, most profound and satisfying belief system on the face of this earth. We will not live long enough to plumb the depths of the faith. No need for anything modern or trendy. Some of the best prayer is the simplest: silent and from the heart. Silent before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Silent, period.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Centering Prayer is a banned topic in CAF Spirituality Forum
Please respect the rule.
Jim
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Herculees
Guest
Hi Jim!
I’m not the one who posted about Centering Prayer! I, however, did not know this is a banned topic. I was just wondering why? Also, I’d appreciate knowing where I can read about what the banned topics are so I can make sure NOT to bring those topics up OR if you prefer post for everyone to see what those topics that are banned are.
Thank you,
Herculees
I’m not the one who posted about Centering Prayer! I, however, did not know this is a banned topic. I was just wondering why? Also, I’d appreciate knowing where I can read about what the banned topics are so I can make sure NOT to bring those topics up OR if you prefer post for everyone to see what those topics that are banned are.
Thank you,
Herculees
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Herculees
Guest
I would encourage you to go to the following site:
www.catholic-church.org/grace/growing/9grades/9grades.htm
It explains that we are all called to work towards the 9 grades of prayer
Also has a summary of the 9 grades of prayer.
Herculees
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Ad_Orientem
Guest
First, there’s no precept of the Church which states that we are required to do a certain amount of prayer at a certain level. It would be impossible to legislate the higher levels of prayer because the higher you go, the more it is God working in you and the less it is something you are initiating.
That said, just because there isn’t a legal precept about something, doesn’t mean we are just fine leaving it off. A thing may be morally necessary in itself, without the Church having to legislate it. St. Alphonsus Liguori, in The Necessity and Power of Prayer, writes:
[M]ental prayer is morally necessary for the soul, to enable it to preserve itself in the grace of God. For if a person does not remember in the time of meditation to ask for the help necessary for perseverance, he will not do so at any other time; for without meditation he will not think of asking for it, and will not even think of the necessity for asking it. On the other hand, he who makes his meditation every day will easily see the needs of his soul, its dangers, and the necessity of his prayer; and so he, will pray, and will obtain the graces which will enable him to persevere and save his soul.
That said, just because there isn’t a legal precept about something, doesn’t mean we are just fine leaving it off. A thing may be morally necessary in itself, without the Church having to legislate it. St. Alphonsus Liguori, in The Necessity and Power of Prayer, writes:
[M]ental prayer is morally necessary for the soul, to enable it to preserve itself in the grace of God. For if a person does not remember in the time of meditation to ask for the help necessary for perseverance, he will not do so at any other time; for without meditation he will not think of asking for it, and will not even think of the necessity for asking it. On the other hand, he who makes his meditation every day will easily see the needs of his soul, its dangers, and the necessity of his prayer; and so he, will pray, and will obtain the graces which will enable him to persevere and save his soul.
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Della
Guest
That is Teresan Discalced Carmelite spirituality, which is fine and good and proper, but it’s not required for all Catholics. You are asserting that it is required–it isn’t. Unless one is a Teresa Carmelite, no one is obliged to follow her model of prayer.
Having said that, anyone may follow it who wishes too, but again, it’s not part of the Church’s deposit of faith. It is a private devotion promoted by the Discalced Carmelites which Catholics are free to do or not.
Personal prayer can be divided up into stages, and has been by more saints that Teresa of Avila, but it’s not that cut-and-dried. There are many forms of prayer and spirituality within the Church, which we are free to do or not, according to what is beneficial to our own spirituality.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
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drforjc
Guest
Well, even St. Teresa admits that some souls are simply not capable of mental prayer and vocal prayer is realistically all such people may be able to accomplish. She stresses that vocal prayer done well, with an awareness of Who it is we are speaking to, may be just as efficacious for those souls.
I would also emphasize that the highest and most important forms of prayer in the Church, and the only ones that bind all or some Catholics in some form, namely the Mass and Divine Office, are primarily vocal. Most Sacraments are not valid unless essential prayers are said vocally.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
I honestly have no idea what this means.
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Anne1964
Guest
The nine levels of prayer as described in St. Teresa of Avila’s book, The Interior Castle, cannot be achieved simply because one wants them. At the higher levels, they are a gift from God that the person praying receives.
When one first begins to pray or meditate, it is through the person’s will that the prayer occurs. Vocal prayer is a good example of this. As another poster mentioned, some people remain at the vocal prayer stage and that is fine.
Others may advance to more contemplative types of prayer which St. Teresa describes. At those levels God takes the more active role and the person simply receives what He chooses to give.
I have never heard the St. Teresa’s levels of prayer described as a private devotion. I always thought of them as Teresa’s attempt at describing the various stages of prayer one might experience in this life.
When one first begins to pray or meditate, it is through the person’s will that the prayer occurs. Vocal prayer is a good example of this. As another poster mentioned, some people remain at the vocal prayer stage and that is fine.
Others may advance to more contemplative types of prayer which St. Teresa describes. At those levels God takes the more active role and the person simply receives what He chooses to give.
I have never heard the St. Teresa’s levels of prayer described as a private devotion. I always thought of them as Teresa’s attempt at describing the various stages of prayer one might experience in this life.
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Herculees
Guest
I did NOT intend to imply that we must follow St. Teresa’s way of prayer. I, however, was just trying to explain as you said so eloquently said. That prayer can be divided up into stages. I was only refering the person to the site as to show what the 9 stages of prayer was that they were talking about, and that we are called by God to NOT be stagnant but to grow in faith and grace. Sorry if I did not express this well.
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Della
Guest
You did write: “It explains that we are all called to work towards the 9 grades of prayer.”
Not everyone is capable of achieving all nine stages of prayer, as laid out by St. Teresa, but indeed, we are all called to grow in all aspects of our faith life.
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Exiled_Child
Guest
Actually, meditation is very likely the oldest form of Christian prayer, along with The Lord’s Prayer. I say that because the Desert Fathers give us highly detailed instructions on how to go about establishing a fruitful and productive daily meditation practice. It’s described by them as an ancient Christian tradition, which suggests it likely goes back to the Apostles themselves. If people don’t feel drawn to it that’s fine, but it’s a grave mistake to liken it to New Age practices. And one could just as easily liken the Rosary to Buddhist prayer beads. Not that the Rosary isn’t a good way to pray, but it came at least a thousand years after Christian meditation began.
I’m personally not convinced The Lord’s Prayer was the only prayer taught by Christ.
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Vic_Taltrees_UK
Guest
To meditate is to catch the vision of Christ for our fellow church members.
I was born doing it, before it was educated out of me.
I am doing it - almost whatever else I am doing - because what I am doing is in the context of God’s providence for the world and so my ambitions these days are to take away the shame of fellow Christians by getting them interested in science and history (which they may have been told they didn’t have the aptitude for) as well as whatever meanings of Scripture I pick up from hearing them explained. Branches of knowledge derive from:
I see spirituality (of whatever kind) as matters of boundaries, values, doing what we want (knowing it to be wholesome), when we want, why we want rather than dodging or drifting.
I usually have plenty of current issues in life where those Scriptures I have come across can be applied. Therefore my meditations are like an internal debate, adding layers of relevancy. Of course I try to do a lot of it when not busy with other things as well. And to repeat some of the traditional given prayers a lot.
As far as I can make out, St Teresa is not detailing a method per se.
One has to constantly inform the process by evaluating for oneself, sources of illumination regarding meanings of Scriptures including those suggested by CAF members.
I was born doing it, before it was educated out of me.
I am doing it - almost whatever else I am doing - because what I am doing is in the context of God’s providence for the world and so my ambitions these days are to take away the shame of fellow Christians by getting them interested in science and history (which they may have been told they didn’t have the aptitude for) as well as whatever meanings of Scripture I pick up from hearing them explained. Branches of knowledge derive from:
- landscapes (stretching to stars and ocean deeps)
- peoples who are in the landscapes
- words
- God whose provident will this is for us
I see spirituality (of whatever kind) as matters of boundaries, values, doing what we want (knowing it to be wholesome), when we want, why we want rather than dodging or drifting.
I usually have plenty of current issues in life where those Scriptures I have come across can be applied. Therefore my meditations are like an internal debate, adding layers of relevancy. Of course I try to do a lot of it when not busy with other things as well. And to repeat some of the traditional given prayers a lot.
As far as I can make out, St Teresa is not detailing a method per se.
One has to constantly inform the process by evaluating for oneself, sources of illumination regarding meanings of Scriptures including those suggested by CAF members.
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colden26
Guest
what exactly are the 9 grades/levels of prayer?
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