Are Catholics Rude?

[Polyphony]

I"You find me offensive? I find you offensive for finding me offensive"

That’s cute rhetoric, but it’s an example of the tu quoque fallacy.

 

[LethalMouse]

That’s cute rhetoric, but it’s an example of the tu quoque fallacy.

So within my context of standing with God and not actually doing getting offended, how can we define legitimate offense?

Is rightful offense at your hair color righteous? I mean maybe you have blonde hair and I find blonde hair offensive, why not dye it for my sake?

No? That is ridiculous you say? So when we begin up the line of what someone finds offensive, when is the offense justified? When is someones offense an “ism” and when is the offfender guilty? Hmmm where is that line? Can you draw me a concrete law of what specifically is legitimate offense and what is the offended parties own mental issues or pride?

 

[Polyphony]

Obviously, there’s moral and there’s immoral behavior. When someone acts immorally towards us, they expose us to a certain type of evil. We have a choice as to how to act with regard to that evil, and patience is the virtue by which we are able to suffer evil in a way that is pleasing to God. But not everyone is particularly patient. In fact, most of us are not, and this can be a venial sin, but it’s probably just an imperfection in most cases. Moreover, God is probably sending us that person to annoy us simply to prune us of such an imperfection.

I’m not sure if that gets at what you’re talking about or not.

But in the case of Eminem, I think his line is simply fallacious. Can people have a legitimate gripe as to the morality of songs of his such as Kill You? Of course. Does he have a right to respond with sheer moral relativism? In a sense, perhaps: but that doesn’t mean we have to buy his fallacious reasoning.

 

[LuciaPacifici]

Well this thread has been resurrected. I have been in a Protestant church and known Evangelical friends, and also a member of support groups that were trying to attract members. I will echo what has been already said here, that a group that needs to attract members badly will encourage everyone to act exuberant and cheerful, and frown upon those who don’t.

What I love about being Catholic is that the sacraments hold us together. We are the Body of Christ, but we have physical manifestations of God’s love with us. We don’t have to work ourselves into a giddy state to be near God. And if that sometimes means people are more “real” and show their human colors, I prefer that to something sugar coated.

As for hierarchy, some people are managing large numbers of people sometimes have to be impersonal…I have been a group leader, it isn’t always easy, but you do your best.

I would pick our church any day.

 

[praying4u2]

re:lethalmouse

"7While there are perhaos true “offenses” in another post I mentioned how if one stands truly with God they could not possibly be harmed by insults nor ever be humiliated. So that I have a firm belief that the offended and often most outwardly shy/anxiety ridden etc… are truly beyond arrogance and self centered. So to note that as the Bible claims there is a narrower flow of righteous than sinful. I might suggest that there are far fewer righteous than self righteous.

So to be offended of anything short of truest blasphemy is an issue of pride more than anything."

Please restate in English, thank you.

 

[LethalMouse]

Obviously, there’s moral and there’s immoral behavior. When someone acts immorally towards us, they expose us to a certain type of evil. We have a choice as to how to act with regard to that evil, and patience is the virtue by which we are able to suffer evil in a way that is pleasing to God. But not everyone is particularly patient. In fact, most of us are not, and this can be a venial sin, but it’s probably just an imperfection in most cases. Moreover, God is probably sending us that person to annoy us simply to prune us of such an imperfection.

I’m not sure if that gets at what you’re talking about or not.

But in the case of Eminem, I think his line is simply fallacious. Can people have a legitimate gripe as to the morality of songs of his such as Kill You? Of course. Does he have a right to respond with sheer moral relativism? In a sense, perhaps: but that doesn’t mean we have to buy his fallacious reasoning.

You are attacking the source of the quote which I gave with disclaimer… so yeah there is that which is the same thing you are railing against

But my post being in regard to the thread ie: you make a mistake at mass and someone is “rude”. You have not exposed them to evil any more than having blonde hair is evil… that would be the context.

 

[LethalMouse]

re:lethalmouse

"7While there are perhaos true “offenses” in another post I mentioned how if one stands truly with God they could not possibly be harmed by insults nor ever be humiliated. So that I have a firm belief that the offended and often most outwardly shy/anxiety ridden etc… are truly beyond arrogance and self centered. So to note that as the Bible claims there is a narrower flow of righteous than sinful. I might suggest that there are far fewer righteous than self righteous.

So to be offended of anything short of truest blasphemy is an issue of pride more than anything."

Please restate in English, thank you.

No, nine, nyet

And lol the topic of this thread and then your post, you are making me smile in the irony

 

[Polyphony]

You have not exposed them to evil any more than having blonde hair is evil…

I’m not sure what you mean here.

If someone is rude to another person, yes, they have exposed them to a sort of evil. Maybe that’s sort of technical language, but by evil I just meant what Fr. Hardon means here:

Sin, as distinct from physical evil, which is some form of suffering. It is evil because it is contrary to the will of God; it is moral evil because it is caused by a free created will acting against the law of God, who does not want moral evil as an end or as a means.

So, in another words, being rude to someone can be what’s called a moral evil (read: sinful). And when we experience sin, we usually experience a sort of suffering. In the case of rudeness, it’s perhaps anger: the perception of being slighted or injured coupled with a desire for revenge.

I’m not sure if that helps at all, but I do feel awful for talking to you in such an old thread, so I’m going to have to bow out. I was really just making a joke about Eminem initially. Nothing to see here, really.

 

[LethalMouse]

I’m not sure what you mean here.

If someone is rude to another person, yes, they have exposed them to a sort of evil. Maybe that’s sort of technical language, but by evil I just meant what Fr. Hardon means here:

Okay, whew you missed the part before what you quoted. The issue is that the “rude” person is the one who feels offended. So the rude person is the person by my statements you have essentially been defending. They the rude person are not the eminem quoters.

The eminem quote is meant that ehhh… okay I will script it into a script

You (walk into mass and mistakenly make the sign wrong with holy water)

Rude person (glares at you with the rude stare of a thousand knives and later has back turned to you in social situation)

You: “You find me offensive? I find you offensive for finding me offensive”

You see you originally defended the rude or offended person by attacking the quote and logic of what evil can be done… but now you say the rude/offended person commits the exposure to evil… which would make the user of the eminem quote morally right by your latest post.

Not sure our stances now? Lol you seemed to dislike my notion of not getting offended while simultaneously calling the acts of the offended evil…

 

[LethalMouse]

re:lethalmouse

"7While there are perhaos true “offenses” in another post I mentioned how if one stands truly with God they could not possibly be harmed by insults nor ever be humiliated. So that I have a firm belief that the offended and often most outwardly shy/anxiety ridden etc… are truly beyond arrogance and self centered. So to note that as the Bible claims there is a narrower flow of righteous than sinful. I might suggest that there are far fewer righteous than self righteous.

So to be offended of anything short of truest blasphemy is an issue of pride more than anything."

Please restate in English, thank you.

I feel like veing nice now that I am back on here lol

So basically you probably have an issue with why the offended or anxiety ridden are arrogant?

If you are these than everything affects YOU the world always does something against YOU the people you meet always slight YOU someone says something it offends YOU they do just about anything it bothers YOU they fail to do what YOU think should be they are so so so mean to YOU

Being offended/anxiety types therefore I submit contain truest arogance, some can barely funtion because all thing affect THEM at all times. Hence self righteousness and pride.

(YOU is used literary, not literal so I am not saying it is you… but Idk either way )

 

[multitude]

Many Catholics are rude. I don’t really begrudge it, at least not anymore.

 

[Legend]

This is definitely a subject worth discussing. But was it really necessary to resurrect a five-year-old thread?

 

[LethalMouse]

This is definitely a subject worth discussing. But was it really necessary to resurrect a five-year-old thread?

Who looks at thread dates once resurrected? Lol

Blame praying4u2, he did it! Lol

 

[pwlj_christ87]

I don’t think catholics are too rude, I think that, catholics have an immense obligation on their behalf to put forth the best motion forward regarding what they are to do and what they aren’t to do, I do not think that they are too rude. They may appear to be too rude, rude in what sense though? How can they be rude? What are they doing to be rude? Rudeness is also a feature that Jesus must of had, since he was man, and since he was the Son of Man, he established that he contradicted those who went against himself, and if he went against himself then he would be a contradiction in himself. SInce he claimed to be the Son of Man, meaning he is claiming authoritative dictatorship over himself.

So to answer your question, Jesus was rude, but he was rude to people who were probably rude back to him and even then I highly doubt that answer because at the end of the day when he was dying on Golgotha hill, his only rude response back to the insurrectionist who didn’t want to acknowledge him as who he was, was that he doesn’t wan’t anything to do with him, through his sigh’s and mourning, rather he turned to the man who believed in him and said like to you, today you shall be with me in Paradise.

• Sincerely,

Jacob P

 

[praying4u2]

Jesus rude? nope! I don’t consider that Jesus kicking out the money changers was rude, because he was just cleaning house, as was his right. The People of the time were extremely rude to Jesus. They gossiped about him and his disciples because they drank and ate with tax collectors. They kept trying to catch him sinning, and then when he explained what scripture really said they would become befuddled. The priesthood at the time wanted him to die.
He was respectable to everyone. He taught " do unto others what you would want done to you." He healed sick , brought the dead back to life, felt sympathy to widows and newlyweds, His usual response to authority was to tell a story or just to say “you say that I am” He was a forgiving , kind , loving , brave, dependable, and righteous man.
I don’t ever recall him being unkind to anyone, ever. Even when he was tortured , and crucified, the only thing he said to his execution squad was to ask God to forgive them, and even made the excuse that they were ignorant; to protect them from Gods wrath. There was never a better man than Jesus. He loved the most , and taught others to do the same. And don’t get me started on his Holy and Blessed humility in the bread and wine at communion.

 

[OneSheep]

Good Morning, and Welcome to the CAF!

Yes Many Catholics are rude. I joined the church when I was 18, I’m 57 now and if you compare Catholics to Protestants , Catholics win hands down in rudeness. If it were not for the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist I would have nothing to do with them, us (I say that because I am Catholic). Truly I could tell you stories of rude priests and their secretaries that would completely shock you. Pope Francis said it well when he called some of the priests truly monstrous.

I say “welcome”, but I warn you that some people on the CAF do not exhibit kindness, which is a fruit of the Spirit. It sounds like you may have been offended by the way you were treated, is that right?

Jesus rude? nope! I don’t consider that Jesus kicking out the money changers was rude, because he was just cleaning house, as was his right. The People of the time were extremely rude to Jesus. They gossiped about him and his disciples because they drank and ate with tax collectors. They kept trying to catch him sinning, and then when he explained what scripture really said they would become befuddled. The priesthood at the time wanted him to die.
He was respectable to everyone. He taught " do unto others what you would want done to you." He healed sick , brought the dead back to life, felt sympathy to widows and newlyweds, His usual response to authority was to tell a story or just to say “you say that I am” He was a forgiving , kind , loving , brave, dependable, and righteous man.
I don’t ever recall him being unkind to anyone, ever. Even when he was tortured , and crucified, the only thing he said to his execution squad was to ask God to forgive them, and even made the excuse that they were ignorant; to protect them from Gods wrath. There was never a better man than Jesus. He loved the most , and taught others to do the same. And don’t get me started on his Holy and Blessed humility in the bread and wine at communion.

What do you suppose was the mood/thought of those rude to you?

Thanks for resurrecting this thread! Again, welcome!

 

[mommy_k]

I’m sorry for asking this out of frustration I’m usually not this negative but this is something that has been in the back of my mind for some time now and two e-mail messages from fellow Catholics just triggered this. First off, let me state that I am a devout Catholic (regular confession, mass every Sunday, etc).

Okay, so I’ve observed all too many times that it seems that we Catholics are rude, often at times to one another! I’ve seen people give dirty looks at mass, parking lot arguments when trying to leave church, I’ve met four “celebrity” apologists and found only two of them where actually pleasant making me hesitant to want to meet more. Even in our very own forums we (sometimes) see people bickering amongst one another who seem to have no reason whatsoever to argue. Of course lets not forget that (figuratively) 3 out of 5 parish offices you call you will be greeted coldly by the receptionist

I’m sorry and I don’t mean to be judgmental but what I observe is very dis-hearting. Although I would never leave the Church I get jealous of how my “non-denominational” Christian friends seem to have great relationships with their brothers and sisters in their church. Perhaps I’m part of the problem because although (I think) I’ve never done anything wrong to a fellow parishioner, I never really went out of my way to be a brother in Christ to a parishioner that I"ve never met.

In the end I have to ask if anyone else feels this way. And what do you do? I know we should carry our crosses and pray for our Church but man the taste does get a little to bitter to the point I can’t help but to spit it out. Anyone? Something positive I hope? Again, I apologize if I’m being too negative.

People are people some rude some polite. To judge an entrie religion or group based on the actions of a few is stereotypng.

 

[praying4u2]

Originally Posted by praying4u2 View Post
Yes Many Catholics are rude. I joined the church when I was 18, I’m 57 now and if you compare Catholics to Protestants , Catholics win hands down in rudeness. If it were not for the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist I would have nothing to do with them, us (I say that because I am Catholic). Truly I could tell you stories of rude priests and their secretaries that would completely shock you. Pope Francis said it well when he called some of the priests truly monstrous.

I say “welcome”, but I warn you that some people on the CAF do not exhibit kindness, which is a fruit of the Spirit. It sounds like you may have been offended by the way you were treated, is that right?
*Sure, of course. When people are rude it is not only disrespectful but very offensive. *

Quote
Jesus rude? nope! I don’t consider that Jesus kicking out the money changers was rude, because he was just cleaning house, as was his right. The People of the time were extremely rude to Jesus. They gossiped about him and his disciples because they drank and ate with tax collectors. They kept trying to catch him sinning, and then when he explained what scripture really said they would become befuddled. The priesthood at the time wanted him to die.
He was respectable to everyone. He taught " do unto others what you would want done to you." He healed sick , brought the dead back to life, felt sympathy to widows and newlyweds, His usual response to authority was to tell a story or just to say “you say that I am” He was a forgiving , kind , loving , brave, dependable, and righteous man.
I don’t ever recall him being unkind to anyis execution squad was to ask God to forgive them, and even made the excuse that they were ignorant; to protect them from Gods wrath. There was never a better man than Jesus. He loved the most , and taught others to do the same. And don’t get me started on his Holy and Blessed humility in the bread and wine at communion.

What do you suppose was the mood/thought of those rude to you? *hmm, well in 50% of rude actions I think those people forgot that they were in church, and had no respect for the sanctity of the tabernacle, or the house of God,or for the people or
anyone else except for themselves. yes I would have to say no respect for the Lord.

Now in the other 50% I would say they knew they were rude and enjoyed watching their victim suffer. Or my friends or relatives suffer. Yes in Germany it is called ’ Schadenfreude’. I believe their actions are evil. This would include, shutting the door in ones face. Snubbing, that is getting up from the table and moving away the moment you sit down.(at numerous catholic functions). Arguing with each other in church, and the priest ridiculing something about you or someone in your family,that he might have learned in confession. I don’t think God is happy when his priest fight viciously with parishioners in front of the tabernacle. I don’t think it is good when priests call you or your children bad names. I could go on and on. oh and don’t get me started on priests who won’t shake the hands of poor teenagers, who stood in line to say hello , but instead doesn’t even look the kid in the eye and reaches around the teen to shake the hand of another person.
*

Thanks for resurrecting this thread! Again, welcome!

---

Pope Francis Verified account
‏@Pontifex

God is always waiting for us, he always understands us, he always forgives us.

 

[OneSheep]

Good Morning!

*Sure, of course. When people are rude it is not only disrespectful but very offensive. *

And of course, like all of us, you want respect. You are a person of value, and should be treated with of great respect, like we all want to be treated. You observed their behavior, and felt upset. That’s what I am hearing.

and even made the excuse that they were ignorant; to protect them from Gods wrath.

Well, to “make excuses for people” is to do something for the purpose of avoiding consequence, right? I don’t think Jesus said “forgive them, for they know not what they do” in order to avoid natural consequence, he said it because He observed that they really did not know what they were doing, and He did not hold their acts against them.

You were Jesus. That is, you had Jesus within you when you walked into the Church. Jesus provides a model in how to forgive, right? People were rude to you. Did they not know that Christ is within you? Think of the verse when Jesus said, “whatever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me.” Well, when Jesus said that, he was not saying that such “doing” only pertains to the “least of my people”. And in fact, as soon as I find myself devaluing someone in some way, that person has become the new “least”! Did you follow me on that? So, if they were rude to you, they did so to Christ.

Do you think they knew that when they were being rude, they were “doing unto Christ”? I am thinking that there must have been some gap in their thinking.

hmm, well in 50% of rude actions I think those people forgot that they were in church, and had no respect for the sanctity of the tabernacle, or the house of God,or for the people or
anyone else except for themselves. yes I would have to say no respect for the Lord.

Yes, they did not show you respect. What would be your specific request of these people? What would you tell them without escalating the situation, showing them that even though they did not show you respect, you can show them respect with a respectful request?

Now in the other 50% I would say they knew they were rude and enjoyed watching their victim suffer. Or my friends or relatives suffer. Yes in Germany it is called ’ Schadenfreude’. I believe their actions are evil. This would include, shutting the door in ones face. Snubbing, that is getting up from the table and moving away the moment you sit down.(at numerous catholic functions). Arguing with each other in church, and the priest ridiculing something about you or someone in your family,that he might have learned in confession. I don’t think God is happy when his priest fight viciously with parishioners in front of the tabernacle. I don’t think it is good when priests call you or your children bad names. I could go on and on. oh and don’t get me started on priests who won’t shake the hands of poor teenagers, who stood in line to say hello , but instead doesn’t even look the kid in the eye and reaches around the teen to shake the hand of another person.

Whew! That’s a lot of rudeness to try to address at once. What do you think about this: Jesus asks us to forgive those who trespass against us. How does one go about forgiving those people?

Here is what I do. I’ll start with your first example. I ask myself, “why would I shut the door in someone’s face?” My first answer would be “I could do that if I was so out of it that I did not even realize I was shutting the door in someone’s face”.

My next answer would be “I was thinking that the person wanted to see me, but I was in such a state of despair, I simply shut the door; I was depressed and totally unthinking of the needs and feelings of others.”

My last answer would be the most painful one to admit: “I would shut the door in someone’s face if I saw no value in the person. I would have been immediately prejudiced by something I saw, that they belonged to a race I condemned, or were wearing something or behaving in a way I found disgusting or rude.” In this case, I would have been very blind, my negative judgment would have blinded me. Can you relate to this, does your own negative judgment of people ever blind you? It is an automatic occurrence, we are all capable of such blindness.

Feel free to bring up another thing that may have gone through my mind (or someone else’s) when someone being rude to someone. Of course, this involves trying to remember when you did something that could possibly have been taken as “rude” to someone else.

God bless you, praying4u2, and thanks for bringing forward all of this important stuff!

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---

Pope Francis Verified account
‏@Pontifex

God is always waiting for us, he always understands us, he always forgives us.

 

[Lea101]

I would say that the nicest catholics I know are the ones that do not practise their faith. Now, I don’t mean that the religion is the problem, but it’s their “holier than thou” attitude that makes them this way. You can even find these people here!

This is usually the same with other religions though, so I won’t be too upset/take it personally