Are Catholics still forbidden from becoming Communists

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See post #10 As Cathoics we don’t get to reject Church teaching in favor of our political views
thats is true, but the church does not require us to folllow (or not follow) a certain ideology. saying that the church “forbids” us to be socialists is ridiculous. LOL or what, should i go to my priest the next time i confess and say “bless me father… i am a socialist” LOL :rolleyes:
 
So you’re turning a false dichotomy in to a false trichotomy? There are many, many economic theories in existence, and even more that have yet to be thought up. It doesn’t come down to a few select buzzwords like everyone thinks it does.
:confused:

I suggest you read Rerum novarum and Quadragesimo Anno. After you do that you should learn about Distributism (created by some very fine intellectuals such as G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc).
 
thats is true, but the church does not require us to folllow (or not follow) a certain ideology. saying that the church “forbids” us to be socialists is ridiculous. LOL or what, should i go to my priest the next time i confess and say “bless me father… i am a socialist” LOL :rolleyes:
Some of the things espoused by socialism are anathema to the Church
 
Communism and Socialism work to suppress the free will of the individual in favor of the “general will” of the society. It thereby reduces the ambition/achievement/productiveness of the individual.
This in turn leads to a scarcity over time of essential manufactured/agrarian products needed for healthy living.

We have seen this in the Soviet Union and continue to see this in Cuba.
you are incorrect, here allow me to impart some wisdom onto you, consider this quote by one of the best socialists in history
“everything that has been given to the people, the land, rivers, mountains, forests, and natural resources, both above and below the ground, the air- all this in principle belongs to the people as a whole. if anyone owns these, he is in effect the trustee of the people’s property. and must consider himslef accountable to the state and the nation. if he manages the posessions entrusted to him poorly or in a manner detrimental to the good of the whole, then the state has the right to terminate his ownership and give his posessions back to the people as a whole.”
-Joseph Goebbels
 
:confused:

I suggest you read Rerum novarum and Quadragesimo Anno. After you do that you should learn about Distributism (created by some very fine intellectuals such as G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc).
  1. I’ve read it.
  2. I know a lot about Distributism
  3. I never said anything against it.
What I am saying is that there are far more options than just those few well-known ones.
 
you are incorrect, here allow me to impart some wisdom onto you, consider this quote by one of the best socialists in history
“everything that has been given to the people, the land, rivers, mountains, forests, and natural resources, both above and below the ground, the air- all this in principle belongs to the people as a whole. if anyone owns these, he is in effect the trustee of the people’s property. and must consider himslef accountable to the state and the nation. if he manages the posessions entrusted to him poorly or in a manner detrimental to the good of the whole, then the state has the right to terminate his ownership and give his posessions back to the people as a whole.”
-Joseph Goebbels
He also advocated the slave labor of the Jewish people to increase manufacturing and productivity. His methods for the advancement of his country were immoral and evil.
 
Well their all man made systems so they are all subject to error not to mention the heavy propaganda issued by theses systems - Communism obviously is a system created without God - making it completely wrong.
There is no politics in heaven just Gods will.What a blessing that will be - won’t have to listen to all the lies anymore.
 
How does social justice differ from socialism?

Modern Catholic Dictionary:

SOCIAL JUSTICE. The virtue that inclines one to co-operate with others in order to help make the institutions of society better serve the common good. While the obligation of social justice falls upon the individual, that person cannot fulfill the obligation alone, but must work in concert with others, through organized bodies, as a member of a group whose purpose is to identify the needs of society, and, by the use of appropriate means, to meet these needs locally, regionally, nationally, and even globally. Implicit in the virtue of social justice is an awareness that the world has entered on a new phase of social existence, with potential for great good or great harm vested in those who control the media and the structures of modern society. Christians, therefore, are expected to respond to the new obligations created by the extraordinary means of promoting the common good not only of small groups but literally of all humanity.
 
i agree, as a catholic and a socialist, im very disturbed to see how many catholics are taking the side of capitalism, but the facts are that capitalism actually WORSE than communism! dont get me wrong i HATE BOTH capitalism and communism, but is the church seriously going to stand by these robber-barons who have exploited the working people for centuries?? as i have stated before, i am NOT a communist, I am a left-wing nationalist, but i can UNDERSTAND all those who join the communists and fight for their cause.
You’d surely have to admit that fellows like Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Tsetung sure gave communism a bad name. I don’t recall any leaders of economically free nations slaughtering thousands upon thousands of their own peoples. Do you? The robber baron family of North Korea seems to be doing an equally great job of keeping their citizens impoverished too. Unlike the owners of capital who, down through the centuries, gave economic opportunities to the working classes.

As a left wing nationalist I suppose you’d support the likes of Tito, the Ba’ath party in Syria and the Basque separatist movement in Spain. The trouble with left wing nationalist movements is that they always manifest themselves as authoritarian and we end up with the likes of Stalin all over again.

None of these approaches to politics and economics has ever resulted in making a nation, or even a tribe, very well off. Unlike capitalism, which has given the planet the capacity to support more people than anyone ever dreamt possible and with a standard of living the ancients could never have imagined.

Catholicism and capitalism fit together perfectly. Each allows the human person to flourish, unimpeded by dictatorial despots of the ilk that communism, socialism and other left wing crackpot ideologies have shown they can throw up.
 
Capitalism I see nothing wrong with at all if it is followed correctly, and it that is actually more of a possibility than with socialism, Communism, whateverism, etc.
 
Capitalism I see nothing wrong with at all if it is followed correctly, and it that is actually more of a possibility than with socialism, Communism, whateverism, etc.
In practice capitalism ultimately ends up like Monopoly, basically one person gets an edge and then they leverage it, once they get a sufficient lead they continue to grow in wealth eventually wiping everyone else out.
 
In practice capitalism ultimately ends up like Monopoly, basically one person gets an edge and then they leverage it, once they get a sufficient lead they continue to grow in wealth eventually wiping everyone else out.
That’s why Catholicism works with it - if you play like a decent sport everyone can be happy.
 
That’s why Catholicism works with it - if you play like a decent sport everyone can be happy.
That’s not capitalism anymore. The whole point of capitalism is the acquisition of commerce, the point of it is just like Monopoly, to have all the properties and all the money
 
In practice capitalism ultimately ends up like Monopoly, basically one person gets an edge and then they leverage it, once they get a sufficient lead they continue to grow in wealth eventually wiping everyone else out.
Perhaps you have in mind what is sometimes called “corporatism”. It can even be fostered by governments who like to make bedfellows of those who control large capital funds and assets. and who in turn foster the well being of their political benefactors. It can be as bad as socialism. The concentration of wealth requires government beneficence.
 
Perhaps you have in mind what is sometimes called “corporatism”. It can even be fostered by governments who like to make bedfellows of those who control large capital funds and assets. and who in turn foster the well being of their political benefactors. It can be as bad as socialism. The concentration of wealth requires government beneficence.
monopolies are inevitable without government involvement as one company gains an edge and eventually beats the competition. They also collude with companies in other fields



There are reasons Capitalism has been condemned by the Church…
 
You’d surely have to admit that fellows like Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Tsetung sure gave communism a bad name. I don’t recall any leaders of economically free nations slaughtering thousands upon thousands of their own peoples. Do you? The robber baron family of North Korea seems to be doing an equally great job of keeping their citizens impoverished too. Unlike the owners of capital who, down through the centuries, gave economic opportunities to the working classes.

As a left wing nationalist I suppose you’d support the likes of Tito, the Ba’ath party in Syria and the Basque separatist movement in Spain. The trouble with left wing nationalist movements is that they always manifest themselves as authoritarian and we end up with the likes of Stalin all over again.

None of these approaches to politics and economics has ever resulted in making a nation, or even a tribe, very well off. Unlike capitalism, which has given the planet the capacity to support more people than anyone ever dreamt possible and with a standard of living the ancients could never have imagined.

Catholicism and capitalism fit together perfectly. Each allows the human person to flourish, unimpeded by dictatorial despots of the ilk that communism, socialism and other left wing crackpot ideologies have shown they can throw up.
What about the socialist governments that regularly come to power in Britain, France and Germany? They are not totalitarian states. They are not centralised economies.
 
You’d surely have to admit that fellows like Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Tsetung sure gave communism a bad name. I don’t recall any leaders of economically free nations slaughtering thousands upon thousands of their own peoples. Do you? The robber baron family of North Korea seems to be doing an equally great job of keeping their citizens impoverished too. Unlike the owners of capital who, down through the centuries, gave economic opportunities to the working classes.

As a left wing nationalist I suppose you’d support the likes of Tito, the Ba’ath party in Syria and the Basque separatist movement in Spain. The trouble with left wing nationalist movements is that they always manifest themselves as authoritarian and we end up with the likes of Stalin all over again.

None of these approaches to politics and economics has ever resulted in making a nation, or even a tribe, very well off. Unlike capitalism, which has given the planet the capacity to support more people than anyone ever dreamt possible and with a standard of living the ancients could never have imagined.

Catholicism and capitalism fit together perfectly. Each allows the human person to flourish, unimpeded by dictatorial despots of the ilk that communism, socialism and other left wing crackpot ideologies have shown they can throw up.
actually all of those dictators you mentioned were state socialists (something i dont support). state socialism is akin to capitalism, in the fact that under both systems, all the wealth gets concentrated in the hands of a small group of people. thus economic stangnation occurs, in both instances the means of production will evetually be controlled by a single monopoly. so state socialism=capitalism ironically.

when i said i was a left-wing nationalist, i was talking about National Socialism and fascism. (im not a racist though) but these types of socialism have been proven to work perfectly. national socialism teaches that capital should be the servant of the people. therefore it treats the economy as a means to an end. its final goal is a classless society.

and no offense, but i think you need to take a look at history, because capitalism certainly HAS NOT provided “prosperity”. look at the 1800s, child labour, no overtime, horrible working conditions, no minimum wage, an employer could fire an employee at will. would you really want to go back to those times? even today the worklers are taken advantage of, an employer can decide to ship your jobs off to china or india, and the next day youre left jobless and pretty soon homeless, because you wont be able to keep up with the interest rates on your mortgage, courtesy of your capitalist banking system. not to mention youre left without healthcare either 😦

the problem with capitaism is that its based on self-interest, it does not consider whats best for the nation as a whole, the capitalist only cares about his own selfish goals.
capitalism is incompatible with catholicism, as Jesus condems such practices, he said “if you have money, do not lend it at interest, instead give it to someone from who you cannot get it back”, not to mention the early christians held everything in common ownership. furthermore your reasoning is flawed, because you think that capitalists are actually religious, when in fact they are spiritual atheists. they delude themselves into thinking they are justified when they lay off workers, outsource jobs, lower wages, etc. so religion means nothing to a capitalist.
 
What about the socialist governments that regularly come to power in Britain, France and Germany? They are not totalitarian states. They are not centralised economies.
social democrats (Labour, PS, SPOE)≠socialists
 
social democrats (Labour, PS, SPOE)≠socialists
The British Labour Party consider themselves socialists as do other similar parties in Europe.
Are you saying that is different from what Americans call socialists?
 
That’s not capitalism anymore. The whole point of capitalism is the acquisition of commerce, the point of it is just like Monopoly, to have all the properties and all the money
Nonetheless, it is the most compatible form of government with the Church for the U.S. I’d rather have a bunch of rich guys lining their pockets than a dictator lining up people in front of the firing squad.
 
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