Are Catholics supposed to believe that Adam and Eve were real people ?

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Are Catholics supposed to believe that Adam and Eve were real people ? I believe what the science says about the origins and I know that the theory of evolution does not contradict the story of creation (due to scientific evidence I believe the evolution happened) and that Genesis (or at last most of it) should not be interpreted literally and I fully agree. However, the teaching that the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (monogenism) is clearly against scientific view, that is supported by a great deal of evidence. I know that Pope Pius XII spoke about this matter and that the Catechism also mentions this, but what both the Pope and the Catechism state, still appears to be or is against scientific view…

So, if polygenism is true, then what about original sin ? In addition, if death, suffering etc. entered the universe due to the sin of the human being(original sin), then what about the time before humans first appeared( or sinned) on earth? There already was death etc.

Furthermore, how does one know what in the Bible is a historical fact and what is just a metaphor ? At times, it seems like - it’s all true… unless science has already proved otherwise. Then it’s just metaphorical. Please explain. Thank you

Michalina from Germany
 
It may make sense to think Adam and Eve are just a metaphor, but they did have their children, Cain and Abel, and other children, so that makes them definitely real with definitely real offspring. Where would Cain and Abel have come from? Would they just be metaphor too? They would have to be, if Adam and Eve, who were their direct mother and father, which Genesis clearly states. I used to wonder, too, if they were just symbolic…But their direct line of children made them very real. I know whether or not the stories in Genesis are symbolic or literal is always something no one really knows, but I’ve always liked to think of them as literal. I admit they do seem fairytalish, but I just don’t think they are. I understand that you might wonder about Adam and Eve, the garden and the serpent. It does seem like metaphor… But I truly feel it can’t be. Hope this helps.🙂 I mostly stress the fact that they did have their sons, so that makes them literally real.
Where all of our different races came from, however, does baffle me. How and where did they come from, from only two people?
 
We are allowed to believe in evolution that is divinely guided, but I think the Church said that we must believe that Adam & Eve were real people and our first parents regardless of how we believe their bodies originated.
 
Also I’d like to add that I’ve always preferred to think Adam and Eve were the first humans of any kind to be created. I realize what I hope to be and what truly is may not be consistent, but Adam He formed from the dust of the earth, Eve He took from Adam’s rib. All along, I’ve never believed in even the Christian version of evolution. I, personally, though I don’t claim to be right because how can I possibly know, believe Adam and Eve were literally the very first humans, of any form.
 
Crown_of_Stars said:
Also I’d like to add that I’ve always preferred to think Adam and Eve were the first humans of any kind to be created. I realize what I hope to be and what truly is may not be consistent, but Adam He formed from the dust of the earth, Eve He took from Adam’s rib. All along, I’ve never believed in even the Christian version of evolution. I, personally, though I don’t claim to be right because how can I possibly know, believe Adam and Eve were literally the very first humans, of any form.
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That is what I prefer to believe, too. I think that divinely-guided evolution accounts for the beasts of the earth, but man was made directly by God from the slime of the earth. There are apes that look like us to show us what we would be like if God had not breathed a spirit in us and given us reason.
 
[T]he Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter……When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own
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Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII, August 12, 1950.
 
I was just reading a non-religious article that said all modern humans actually share a common ancestor. Like, every person on the planet actually converges at one point. A quick Wikipedia search returns a section on Mitochondrial Eve. Science says she wasn’t the only woman at the time, but she is the only woman to produce an unbroken chain of descendants, which now spans every living person on the planet.
 
Michalina58 said:
Are Catholics supposed to believe that Adam and Eve were real people ? I believe what the science says about the origins and I know that the theory of evolution does not contradict the story of creation (due to scientific evidence I believe the evolution happened) and that Genesis (or at last most of it) should not be interpreted literally and I fully agree. However, the teaching that the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (monogenism) is clearly against scientific view, that is supported by a great deal of evidence. I know that Pope Pius XII spoke about this matter and that the Catechism also mentions this, but what both the Pope and the Catechism state, still appears to be or is against scientific view…

So, if polygenism is true, then what about original sin ? In addition, if death, suffering etc. entered the universe due to the sin of the human being(original sin), then what about the time before humans first appeared( or sinned) on earth? There already was death etc.

Furthermore, how does one know what in the Bible is a historical fact and what is just a metaphor ? At times, it seems like - it’s all true… unless science has already proved otherwise. Then it’s just metaphorical. Please explain. Thank you

Michalina from Germany
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For me it makes sense that Adam and Eve were created by God. I don’t put the evolution theory to any credibility since it is only a theory. I do not think the author of Genesis was referring to a story of Adam and Eve that was supposed to be intended to give us something that was not historical. These events just makes sense as they were written. Jesus in fact describes a situation even before man and woman was created when He said He saw the devil fall like lightening. I am certain if Jesus talks about a real devil than He must refer to a real Adam and Eve. The creation of man and woman must involve what we call God’s time. For instance when the creation story said that God had called light into the first day we must analyze this as a description of the creation of the Holy Angels. We noticed God had called this light good and than the scripture says God had divided the light from the darkness which points to this darkness which the devil perpetuated when he had sinned as did one third of the angels. We can say this because God does not call the darkness good only the light. Since the darkness in outer space is not what this verse means but to the darkness that is found in the misuse of what is good. The darkness in outer space is good because it belongs to the order of God’s creation. We know this can the interpretation because many of the Church Fathers have chosen this interpretation because they had seen that the Sun was not created until later on so that the light from the first day must not involve the Sun. The days than that are described in the Genesis account are not twenty four hour days but are the chronicle times of God which can be stretched out over millions even billions of years. The creation of Adam and Eve seems to put it in a very recent time. Even though the history of the earth was stretched out for billions of years the history of humanity is just a very small history in comparison if you believe in the creation of Adam and Eve.
 
RedFox0456 said:
I was just reading a non-religious article that said all modern humans actually share a common ancestor. Like, every person on the planet actually converges at one point. A quick Wikipedia search returns a section on Mitochondrial Eve. Science says she wasn’t the only woman at the time, but she is the only woman to produce an unbroken chain of descendants, which now spans every living person on the planet.
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I remember reading something similar!
 
I’m going to go out on a limb and hope the head smacking I might receive from an apologist or staff clergy isn’t too painful (or permanent!)

I believe when God created Adam, He created Adam just a the Genesis creation story says. Nowhere in the Genesis account does it describe Adam other than he had the image and likeness of God. Did Adam have blue eyes, brown hair, etc? We don’t know and, frankly, it may not make a difference because the “image” referred to may have meant “Adam was physical/material.” Not saying God the Father is a physical being but remember Christ was with God the Father since…forever…and Jesus incarnated so He was both physical and Divine. That brings me to the next point: likeness. I believe (cringing for the head slap) that “likeness” refers to humans having a soul unlike any of the other creations of God. So, “image” and “likeness”, using my opinion as a basis, means Adam was physical and contained a soul.

So, we can discard all this discussion about a “white Jesus”, “arabic Jesus”, or “black Jesus”; all the art depicting Christ is just that: depictions. Did Christ have substance? Yes! Was He Divine? Yes! What did He look like? We shouldn’t care!

Sometimes we humans think when God created Adam and Eve they looked just like us or our neighbors yet we know there’s evolution that may have to be accounted for. So, consider the theoretical “primordial soup” as the mud that God takes to fashion Adam. God shapes Adam (gives him the DNA coding) and breathes His Spirit into him. Evolution can still be valid and the creation story is still true (as we have asserted from the beginning.) 👍

Does that make sense?
 
Michalina - the short answer to your question is no.

I was told that creationism is on the rise in Europe (it was not a problem when I lived there half a century ago). The Catholic Church has made it clear (and Pope Francis’ statement in October last year could not have been clearer) that we can fully accept what science has taught us in the last decades, as long as we believe that God has given us an immortal soul.

If you are interested from the science side, I can recommend Ken Miller’s two books “Finding Darwin’s God” and “Only a Theory”. Ken Miller is a biologist as well as a Catholic. I am not sure if these books are available in German. There are plenty more books by Francis Collins and Denis Lamoureux, to name just two more.

From the theological side, I recommend you watch Fr. Robert Barron’s short videos on YouTube. They are excellent and cover all topics, including the proper interpretation of the Bible, Genesis, religion and science etc.
 
chimo said:
… I don’t put the evolution theory to any credibility since it is only a theory
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Please keep in mind that, in the context of science, the meaning of the word “theory” is the highest level of understanding there is in science. It includes a description of the observed facts and the best possible explanation leading to those observations.

Other examples are the theory of gravity and the atomic theory. Nobody doubts the existence of atoms, but there are lots of unanswered questions within those theories.
 
First off, I am no philosopher, but,

The story of Adam and Eve CANNOT be metaphorical. Sin entered the world through the sin of Adam (which closed the gates of Heaven) and Our Lord had to come down from Heaven to suffer, die, and rise in order to open the gates of Heaven.

If the story was simply a metaphor, it would not require such a sacrifice because it didn’t really happen in the first place.

Peace.

+JMJ+
 
Here are some links that I have found helpful before on this topic.

“Adam and Eve and Ted and Alice” (Mike Flynn)
tofspot.blogspot.com/2011/09/adam-and-eve-and-ted-and-alice.html

“Modern Biology and Original Sin, Part I” (Ed Feser)
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/09/modern-biology-and-original-sin-part-i.html

“Modern Biology and Original Sin, Part II” (Ed Feser)
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/09/modern-biology-and-original-sin-part-ii.html

“Monkey in Your Soul?” (Ed Feser)
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/09/monkey-in-your-soul.html

It’s been a while since I’ve read them, and I can’t remember what all is covered in which link, but they should all be helpful, I think.
 
Hans_W said:
Please keep in mind that, in the context of science, the meaning of the word “theory” is the highest level of understanding there is in science. It includes a description of the observed facts and the best possible explanation leading to those observations.

Other examples are the theory of gravity and the atomic theory. Nobody doubts the existence of atoms, but there are lots of unanswered questions within those theories.
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There may be the theory of gravity but there are also observable laws of gravity which we can test and achieve predictable results each time. Same with atomic theory; while we don’t know EVERYTHING there is about the movements of atoms and the source of the energy that holds atoms together. But, we have theories, tested by experiments, that can predict with higher probability where the electrons will be but we still cannot track electrons in “real time.”
 
jmj777 said:
First off, I am no philosopher, but,

The story of Adam and Eve CANNOT be metaphorical. Sin entered the world through the sin of Adam (which closed the gates of Heaven) and Our Lord had to come down from Heaven to suffer, die, and rise in order to open the gates of Heaven.

If the story was simply a metaphor, it would not require such a sacrifice because it didn’t really happen in the first place.

Peace.

+JMJ+
Click to expand...
👍
 
Michalina,

The Feser essays that InnocentSmith cited for you do a great job of discussing this topic. I’d be interested in hearing your response to them, since I would think that they answer the precise questions you’re asking. The Kemp article that Feser cites is one that it would be interesting to hear your reaction to, as well…
InnocentSmith said:
Here are some links that I have found helpful before on this topic.

“Adam and Eve and Ted and Alice” (Mike Flynn)
tofspot.blogspot.com/2011/09/adam-and-eve-and-ted-and-alice.html

“Modern Biology and Original Sin, Part I” (Ed Feser)
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/09/modern-biology-and-original-sin-part-i.html

“Modern Biology and Original Sin, Part II” (Ed Feser)
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/09/modern-biology-and-original-sin-part-ii.html

“Monkey in Your Soul?” (Ed Feser)
edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/09/monkey-in-your-soul.html
Click to expand...
 
I’m still struggling and looking, however, I’m very grateful and would like to thank you guys for taking time to help answer my questions (and especially for the links recommended by two forum members; these links that seem to be very helpful, I’ll look into them soon). God bless you.
 
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