Are certain people predestined to Heaven?

[BListon]

Were some of the people in the scriptures predestined to heaven from birth according to God’s plan? Ex. The Blessed Virgin was concieved without original sin at birth, so she could give birth to the Son of God. Was she also predestined for heaven at birth? Another example, was St. Peter predestined, because God chose to give him the keys to the kingdom? Was this all part of God’s pre determined plan?

 

[Theophorus]

Nope, they always had the choice whether or not to follow Him and as such could have chosen not to do so.

 

[Layp3rs0n]

In the case of Mary, yes. For all others that are not Jesus, no.

 

[meltzerboy]

Were some of the people in the scriptures predestined to heaven from birth according to God’s plan? Ex. The Blessed Virgin was concieved without original sin at birth, so she could give birth to the Son of God. Was she also predestined for heaven at birth? Another example, was St. Peter predestined, because God chose to give him the keys to the kingdom? Was this all part of God’s pre determined plan?

I suppose for Calvinists, the answer is yes, in fact double predestination, if I recall correctly. But not according to Catholicism or Judaism, in which human free will plays such a vital role in our lives.

 

[Justice_Mercy]

I suppose for Calvinists, the answer is yes, in fact double predestination, if I recall correctly. But not according to Catholicism or Judaism, in which human free will plays such a vital role in our lives.

Not all Calvinists believe in double Predestination… only Hyper-Calvinists take that stance.

Interestingly, Jesus knew that Judas was not a true follower, but choosing him anyway. Christ says in John 17:12 (NAB):

When I was with them I protected them in your name that you gave me, and I guarded them, and none of them was lost except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Something to ponder…

 

[Theophorus]

In the case of Mary, yes. For all others that are not Jesus, no.

No, mary wasn’t predestined. It was her total and sustained yes to God(and so to His saving grace) that got her there, she could have chosen to sin had she wanted to.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Yes. Free will notwithstanding, it is possible for God to give such a superabundance of grace to an individual as to make it practically impossible for him not to die in a state of grace. However, in its Decree on Justification, chapter 12, the Council of Trent cautions against anyone presuming to be among such persons:
No one, moreover, so long as he is in this mortal life, ought so far to presume as regards the secret mystery of divine predestination, as to determine for certain that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; as if it were true, that he that is justified, either cannot sin any more, or, if he do sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance; for except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God hath chosen unto Himself. (source)
That some people are practically assured heaven should not be a cause of concern since God gives everyone sufficient grace to be saved.

 

[Jeanne_S]

How about the innocents?For example,my youngest brother was born profoundly mentally and physically handicapped.His IQ was probably that of a five months old.He was baptized and lived to the age of thirty eight. Given he was completely incapable of guile,or sin,I like to think he went straight to heaven upon his death.

 

[thistle]

How about the innocents?For example,my youngest brother was born profoundly mentally and physically handicapped.His IQ was probably that of a five months old.He was baptized and lived to the age of thirty eight. Given he was completely incapable of guile,or sin,I like to think he went straight to heaven upon his death.

Baptism removes both original sin and personal sin. In the case of your brother from what you say he would then be incapable of mortally sinning and so would be saved at death.
However, I don’t think this has anything to do with predestination because a person without mental incapacity would be saved if they die immediately after baptism, and a person who goes to Confession and has their sins absolved would be saved if they die immediately after Confession.

 

[Crumpy]

Yes. Free will notwithstanding, it is possible for God to give such a superabundance of grace to an individual as to make it practically impossible for him not to die in a state of grace. However, in its Decree on Justification, chapter 12, the Council of Trent cautions against anyone presuming to be among such persons:
No one, moreover, so long as he is in this mortal life, ought so far to presume as regards the secret mystery of divine predestination, as to determine for certain that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; as if it were true, that he that is justified, either cannot sin any more, or, if he do sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance; for except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God hath chosen unto Himself. (source)
That some people are practically assured heaven should not be a cause of concern since God gives everyone sufficient grace to be saved.

Thanks, that’s a very helpful explanation from Trent. It’s always amazing to me (although it shouldn’t be) how smart those people were back then. they may not have had indoor plumbing but they knew their faith.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Catholics believe in the predestination of the elect but only God knows who the elect are unless He grants this knowledge to a person by special private revelation.

If you don’t believe me then ask St. Thomas Aquinas.

Catholics don’t believe that anyone is predestined for Hell–they go there by their own choice.

And all who are saved cooperate with God in their salvation.

 

[feed_me]

I kinda have to say yes and no. I do remember somewhere in the bible where it talks about the potter and the clay, and I think it also says something that certain people were made for destruction, as part of the plan of God. Now I am not fully certain, but I will read again, and if somebody can, enlighten me on it.

 

[Ubenedictus]

Were some of the people in the scriptures predestined to heaven from birth according to God’s plan? Ex. The Blessed Virgin was concieved without original sin at birth, so she could give birth to the Son of God. Was she also predestined for heaven at birth? Another example, was St. Peter predestined, because God chose to give him the keys to the kingdom? Was this all part of God’s pre determined plan?

yeah i think so. God forsaw all their decision and he knew with infalliability that they will be in heaven.
Ubenedictus

 

[Theophorus]

yeah i think so. God forsaw all their decision and he knew with infalliability that they will be in heaven.
Ubenedictus

That’s not predestination though, as they still had to co-operate with God’s grace in order to be saved. God’s knows us so well He knows what we will choose, He doesn’t make it impossible for us not to choose it-which is what predestination is. No one is automatically bound for heaven or hell.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Catholics DO believe in the predestination of the Elect.

The word predestination is in the bible–even Catholic translations of the bible.

You can’t act like that word and it’s truth isn’t there.

The Catholic Church teaches predestination of the Elect.

It also teaches the freewill of man.

Both are true!

But since we don’t KNOW if we are the Elect or not–only God knows–we must obey St. Pauls and “Work out our salvation with fear and trembling”.

But the other side of the coin is that Catholics also believe in the divine Mercy of Jesus.

Catholics BOTH trust Jesus AND fear and tremble.

The truth is BOTH!

 

[Ubenedictus]

That’s not predestination though, as they still had to co-operate with God’s grace in order to be saved. God’s knows us so well He knows what we will choose, He doesn’t make it impossible for us not to choose it-which is what predestination is. No one is automatically bound for heaven or hell.

how do you define it?

 

[Chowmah]

Catholics DO believe in the predestination of the Elect.

Isnt that found in Romans? Is that the elect being taught about there? The gentiles are also mentioned. Aint that us?

 

[De_Maria]

No, mary wasn’t predestined. It was her total and sustained yes to God(and so to His saving grace) that got her there, she could have chosen to sin had she wanted to.

I choose to look at it another way. We are all predestined to heaven:
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Some men choose not to be.

Both Adam and Eve were also conceived without sin, as Mary was. Yet they sinned. But Mary didn’t. We know that all three were predestined for heaven.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Gorgias]

That’s not predestination though, as they still had to co-operate with God’s grace in order to be saved. God’s knows us so well He knows what we will choose, He doesn’t make it impossible for us not to choose it-which is what predestination is. No one is automatically bound for heaven or hell.

Except that, yeah, that is what predestination is. From the CCC: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of ‘predestination’, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: ‘In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.’ For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.” (CCC, #600)

 

[fred_conty]

Were some of the people in the scriptures predestined to heaven from birth according to God’s plan? Ex. The Blessed Virgin was concieved without original sin at birth, so she could give birth to the Son of God. Was she also predestined for heaven at birth? Another example, was St. Peter predestined, because God chose to give him the keys to the kingdom? Was this all part of God’s pre determined plan?

Here are some references that may help if you are interested. These were in another thread.

St. Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica on Predestination
newadvent.org/summa/102300.htm

Grace, Free Will, & Predestination
cin.org/users/james/files/files.htm

Book: Salvation Controversy Jimmy Akin
shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/S…html?E+scstore

Many good articles on Free Will & Predestination
monksofadoration.org/freewill.html

Divine Providence is not inconsistent with Freedom of the Will:
nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc3_73.htm

Many excellent articles on free will: Summa Contra Gentiles of Saint Thos Aquinas
nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc.htm

Another discussion
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7403324#post7403324

As far as I know the church is open only to some theological explainations.
One of which is outlawed, namely that anyone is sent to hell.

However the discussion is centered on heaven and hell. But I do believe that a certain amount of predestination does take place in this world.

Pharoah’s heart was hardened. God used him for his purpose and was predestined to do what he did for that reason. Judas likewise.

It is like I have a group of friends and send one to the store, not all of them, but just one. The rest could go if they want, but I send only one. I believe this is exactly what happens to some in this world who are instruments of God’s will. But this does not mean that they are eternally destined to heaven or hell because of their role. That is a different subject.

Just a thought.