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Soutane
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I’m not trying to start a fight but I know appallingly little about this type of expression of our Faith
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GraceDK
Guest
The apostles and Jesus were most charismatic of all: they practiced all the gifts of the Holy Spirit in their assemblies and in their missionary work.
That means, in my eyes, the Charismatic Catholics have a dimension in their faith life which is not only cool but also essential for successful evangelisation… otherwise Pentecost would not have happend: They were clothed with the Power from on High… in order to be effective ministers, priests, teachers, prophets, tonguespeakers etc… all these that Paul says should be present in a church
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That means, in my eyes, the Charismatic Catholics have a dimension in their faith life which is not only cool but also essential for successful evangelisation… otherwise Pentecost would not have happend: They were clothed with the Power from on High… in order to be effective ministers, priests, teachers, prophets, tonguespeakers etc… all these that Paul says should be present in a church
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Leopard
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Why wouldn’t we be? We believe everything the Church teaches, we attend Mass, we receive the Sacraments, we pray, we observe the precepts of the Church, we practice the Works of Mercy, we love our Blessed Mother and the saints, etc.
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Soutane
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Perhaps the question wasn’t phrased properly.Of course it’s Catholic but different from from what I am used to.I did attend a healing mass and was a little startled.I was literally knocked to the floor,much to my surprise and delight.
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JacktheCatholic
Guest
The current Pope and the previous two approve of the CCR (Catholic Charismatic Renewal).
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JacktheCatholic
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Slayed in the Spirit.
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Soutane
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I guess!Slayed in the Spirit.
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Leopard
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OTOH, to play devils advocate (or more correctly, promoter of the faith 
), I can understand what might prompt such a question. The Charismatic Renewal is one movement among many within Catholicism, but it is subordinate to Catholicism, not superior to it. If a Catholic were to have the opinion that some or all facets of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal were the only legitimate expressions of Catholicism to the exclusion of other movements and expressions not typically associated with the Charismatic Renewal but nonetheless recognized by the Catholic Church, then such persons would be running the risk of placing themselves outside the bounds of the Church, at least in an informal sense. The same would apply to Catholics involved in any other movement in the Church, such as the TLM movement, Focolare, Opus Dei, Marian Consecration movements, etc.
It should also be noted that The Charismatic Renewal is not incompatible with other legitimate expressions of Catholicism. Many Catholics who practice Charismatic spirituality have also made a De Montfort or Kolbean Total Consecration to Mary, participate in the TLM, etc.
), I can understand what might prompt such a question. The Charismatic Renewal is one movement among many within Catholicism, but it is subordinate to Catholicism, not superior to it. If a Catholic were to have the opinion that some or all facets of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal were the only legitimate expressions of Catholicism to the exclusion of other movements and expressions not typically associated with the Charismatic Renewal but nonetheless recognized by the Catholic Church, then such persons would be running the risk of placing themselves outside the bounds of the Church, at least in an informal sense. The same would apply to Catholics involved in any other movement in the Church, such as the TLM movement, Focolare, Opus Dei, Marian Consecration movements, etc.It should also be noted that The Charismatic Renewal is not incompatible with other legitimate expressions of Catholicism. Many Catholics who practice Charismatic spirituality have also made a De Montfort or Kolbean Total Consecration to Mary, participate in the TLM, etc.
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VociMike
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Interesting. Did the Holy Spirit ever knock anyone to the floor in the bible? Just wondering.
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Mintaka
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St. Paul, I guess.
Charismatic Catholic groups are like any other Catholic group – some people are careful to stick close to the Church’s teachings, and others go off on a tangent. They have to be careful not to be overly influenced by Pentecostalism or the latest unapproved apparition; other groups have to be careful not to be overly influenced by Modernism or Traditionalism or the latest unapproved theologian. (Or apparition.) Everybody has to discern clearly.
And that’s why prudence is a virtue that greatly supports faith, hope, and love.
Charismatic Catholic groups are like any other Catholic group – some people are careful to stick close to the Church’s teachings, and others go off on a tangent. They have to be careful not to be overly influenced by Pentecostalism or the latest unapproved apparition; other groups have to be careful not to be overly influenced by Modernism or Traditionalism or the latest unapproved theologian. (Or apparition.) Everybody has to discern clearly.
And that’s why prudence is a virtue that greatly supports faith, hope, and love.
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Philthy
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There is nothing inherently contradictory to the Catholic faith that the genuine Charismatic Renewal embraces. It merely seeks to explore the charisms of the HS. That much being said, no one is “truly” Catholic by virtue of participation in any group - charismatic or not. To be “truly” Catholic means to be united to the mystical body of Christ. The only people of whom this is definitively ascribed to are the Saints.
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VociMike
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OK. What about Christians? And did it ever happen without a message (such as Paul received)?St. Paul, I guess.
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GraceDK
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Yes actully,
When the people came to seize Jesus in Gethsemane. The moment where He says: I AM/ Its ME… we learn that they drop on the ground without control because the power of His Words…
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VociMike
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Those were non-Christians, and their dropping was accompanied by a message, and it was Jesus Christ, not the Holy Spirit. I’m wondering about the case of Christians dropping, and without any accompanying message, and caused by the Holy Spirit. Any such instances?
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GraceDK
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I am not sure why you would distinguish. I have also heard of non-believers who were slain in the spirit on charismatic events. I would rather point to the fact that its the power in the Name of God that makes the people fall. So too often is that Name spoken over people at charismatic events, whether when praying for healing or for something else.
I will remind you that it says in Scripture that a force/power went out from Him.
I have felt the Holy Spirits presense some times… sometimes stronger than others. Most strong when a Charismatic priest prayed over people. He did not pray over me but I walked behind him at some point and I felt my legs turn into jelly… strange… the air was think of this atmosphere. So too it happend to a friend of mine once when she had a vision of the Virgin Mary. Another brother, who was a priest, once was slain in the Spirit and when he was on the floor he had a vision of Mary. She said: You must read Scripture and focus on my Son. Until that point he had not had a personal relationship with Jesus. So too with an evangelical pastor I know… he too had a vision, like a prophesy while he was resting in the Spirit. And so many others…
I have only fallen in the Spirit one time, I had absolutely no control of what happend, and I by no means attempt to tell you what its all about. But because I have seen it among religious Catholics in very healthy communities, I am not afraid of the phenomenon. Yet, we should always be aware whom we let touch us.
Peace to you.
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VociMike
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I’m just looking for biblical evidence of this extremely common (in our times) phenomenon, where believers are knocked over by the Holy Spirit without any attending message. I’m just doing what the Bereans did. If there is no biblical evidence of such events then that should be a warning to us, don’t you think?
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GraceDK
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Hehe… aren’t you coming close to the sola scriptura-principle?
But my answer to your question is yes. absolutely… I will say, if there is no Biblical talk of something, it’s pretty irrelevant. Therefore I am also tired of people asking me about purgatory and Marys immaculate conception and then blaming me as a Catholic for focusing on unessential things, while they are the ones to bring it up.
We have our hands full with the essential wonder of Christ’s story as presented to us in the Word
Thats my perspective.I will say this, the Marian apparitions in France, Portugal, Bosnia etc are in my eyes highly unbiblical. There is no trace of them nor any prophesy about them. yet they are a sign to many in these times and some good fruit comes out of it.
I will not say these things are bad… but that we shouldnt focus too much on them. Also we should not hang our faith on these phenomena.
I have seen and experienced the resting in the spirit in many charismatic circles, and it seems harmless. In the best cases people have visions or healing when they are in this “rest”… that is Biblical.
It says in the Bible: “They came under the power of the Spirit”, doesnt it? Now, that does not indicate that they fell to the ground under this power, but that some force of the Spirit seized them while they were equipped for ministry…
God works in mysterious ways.
Anyway I dont have anymore things to add on this topic. if you dont feel comfortable with it, don’t do it.
Peace.
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VociMike
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My position is not nearly so black and white as you seem to think. I do not say that if it is not in the bible, it is wrong. What I do say is that if it is not in the bible then we should be more cautious, and seek other confirmation. And in all my years as a Catholic I never learned that believers were struck down by the Holy Spirit, and without an accompanying message. I never heard of any Church fathers speaking about this. So now I have two data points that suggest caution regarding the experiences.
It’s not a question of my being comfortable or uncomfortable. It’s a question of looking for precedent, asking if this is a part of the Catholic faith as received from the apostles, or whether it is something new and of unknown validity.
I wonder, do the Eastern Orthodox know of this being “slain in the spirit” as it is understood today? Seems like they should, if it is a part of the ancient faith.
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JacktheCatholic
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Your religion says Catholic???
Catholics embrace all Tradition and not simply scripture. That is a Protestant Theology and it is called Sola Scriptura. Catholic choose Tradition from God and his Apostles and not men from the 16th century.
For a Catholic there is the Chair of Peter and the Pope presides there. The Pope has given his approval of the CCR. Enough said.
BTW there is not scripture to support being slain in the Spirit. Scripture does not speak of Mary being Assumed into Heaven either. It is these TRUTHs that make us Catholic. To be Catholic is to be Christian in the fullest.
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VociMike
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Yep, as Catholic as the day is long. What would you like to know?Your religion says Catholic???
Yep. Which is why I also asked about where we can find this “slain in the spirit” stuff in Church history. Do you have any references? Do Church Fathers talk about it? Do Church historians document it?
You mean I’m not allowed to ask if one particular phenomenon found in the CCR is found in scripture or tradition or history? I’m just supposed to sit down and shut up?
Ahh, so then this being slain in the spirit thing, as it is practiced today, has been happening since the apostles? Where can I read of this? Is it also found in the Eastern Orthodox Church, since they also trace back to the apostles?
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