Are children still a "blessing"?

[rinnie]

Out of curiousity, does that mean that a small family is somehow not seeing children as a blessing? Or that they’re less Catholic?

I know many Catholic families that struggle with money issues and therefore literally would be out on the street without both parents working. They can’t afford to have more than 1-2 children.

I wouldnt say that. I think if you have one or twenty you are still just as Catholic. Its just that some familys do it the right way and didnt use birth control. I am ashamed to say i wasnt one of them. If i could go back i would have done things differently. I just didnt realize then it was such a big deal. Its seems that the Church didnt seem to be as strict the last 20 years or so as it was. Or maybe its my lack of understanding. But i know now. But all i can do is repent and ask for forgiveness from God. ANd try to be a better person. If you are Catholic you are taught that if God gives you 4 or 8 and you believe in him, he will get you thru it. It goes back to he feeds the birds, are we not more important then a bird. Faith, thats the key. True honest Faith. Nothing more nothing less. And only rely on God not money, or anything of this world. Its so easy to preach, but so hard to live. But once you really get to that point, your anxiety is really gone. Go back to the old days they had nothing, and they made it. Now how could that be possible if not from God taking care of them. They had nothing else. So they had to totally depend on God. Maybe thats what this world is missing.

 

[ChristineML]

As a homeschooling mom of six kids, I can recall moments of truly disgusting diapers/vomit/quarreling, etc, and literally crying/thinking/praying to God, “Why is raising children SO hard?” And it’s come to me what a blessing it is to raise children, not just for the awe-inspiring tender moments, but in the character-building moments. As a parent, I have the privilege of day-to-day practical exercises in

• “if you love Me, keep My commandments”
• feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked
• instruct the ignorant, admonish the sinner, counsel the doubtful
• “trust in Me,” and most especially,
• “not my will, but Thine be done.”

How much of parenthood is giving up what I want to do at this particular moment in time in order to serve a meal, clean up a mess (over and over and over again), answer a question, settle an argument, etc. etc. And because our God is so good, He has given (most of) us the desire and willingness to give of ourselves for this tiny, helpless human being, a son or daughter who is part of ourselves. God is trying to make our path to holiness (generosity and selflessness) as easy as possible. And I wonder if, when people choose unnecessarily to limit their family sizes, does God then have to “get creative” to send them other challenges in life to inspire growth and maturation?

God is so good!

 

[maria29]

Without reading anything into the statement, it sounds like for some people 4 children is a small family–with no judgement made about the number.

My mom came from a family with five children. She says her family was the smallest on the block. Some of the other moms on the block may have said, “You know who Mary Catherine is–she’s the one on the block with the small family.” Not a detraction–just a description.

No one actually commented on the value of small versus large families. By becoming defensive and reading judgement into the statement, a person can actually stir up a debate where none was intended.

For example, my husband is short in stature. I can say that merely as a description of his appearance. If a person ascribed the adjective “short” as a negative, I would be baffled. Good analogy?

I actually was just being curious about how the poster meant the statement. And just commenting that not every area is so able to have tons of large Catholic families because of the amount of money it takes depending on where one lives.

 

[rpp]

When people start talking about how expensive children are, several questions immediately occur to me.

How many cars do they own? How big is their home? How many channels do they get on their cable/satellite TV subscription, how many TVs do they own? How many computers? How many iPods? How many stereos? How much… ?

We have become a consumer driven society that places more emphasis on personal convenience and comfort than on honest labor and self-control. Children are the casualties.

 

[Cari]

And just commenting that not every area is so able to have tons of large Catholic families because of the amount of money it takes depending on where one lives.

The only reason I’m bringing this up is because it directly deals with the subject of children as a blessing:

I live in one of the poorest states in the country. I run with homeschoolers, many of whom come from single-income houses (though not all, you CAN homeschool and have both parents work). These are people who have never, and will never, afford things like family vacations, college tuition, extra cars, meals eaten out, clothes not obtained second hand, etc. etc.

These are people who, by society’s standards, do not have the amount of money it takes to raise a big family. Yet they have chosen to take God at His word, that children ARE a blessing, that one stores up one’s treasure either here on earth or in Heaven, not both, and trust in His divine providence. And no, I’m not talking about being on welfare or using public assistance. I’m talking about doing without what’s considered “normal and necessary” by American consumerist society.

If all Catholics were willing to make the kinds of sacrifices to remain open to God’s will that I see these people making, then yes, every place in this country (assuming you’re in the U.S.; I have no experience with any other locale and cannot speak to its ability to do the same) could support “tons of large Catholic families”.

The simple truth is, removing people who physically cannot have large families, many Catholics choose to indulge in mainstream society’s guidelines for “enough money”. Many Catholics choose to operate under financial expectations that place money as a more important blessing than children.

Now I’ll set back and wait for all the indignant, "I don’t!"s.

 

[Varghese]

Ofcourse Childrens are a blessing, esp if u have led a pious life, you be suprised to see how beautiful & understanding ur child is, most people wont believe it, but I actually saw my child before he was born…

 

[jwashu]

As a homeschooling mom of six kids, I can recall moments of truly disgusting diapers/vomit/quarreling, etc, and literally crying/thinking/praying to God, “Why is raising children SO hard?” And it’s come to me what a blessing it is to raise children, not just for the awe-inspiring tender moments, but in the character-building moments. As a parent, I have the privilege of day-to-day practical exercises in

• “if you love Me, keep My commandments”
• feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked
• instruct the ignorant, admonish the sinner, counsel the doubtful
• “trust in Me,” and most especially,
• “not my will, but Thine be done.”

How much of parenthood is giving up what I want to do at this particular moment in time in order to serve a meal, clean up a mess (over and over and over again), answer a question, settle an argument, etc. etc. And because our God is so good, He has given (most of) us the desire and willingness to give of ourselves for this tiny, helpless human being, a son or daughter who is part of ourselves. God is trying to make our path to holiness (generosity and selflessness) as easy as possible. And I wonder if, when people choose unnecessarily to limit their family sizes, does God then have to “get creative” to send them other challenges in life to inspire growth and maturation?

God is so good!

EXACTLY! Coming to understand the Graces bestowed on the Mother or Father who loves, takes care of and gives up for his or her family is a powerful thing!

Every time you change that diaper, or fix a lunch, or give a bath when you could have been doing something else I believe God is there smiling on you. You give up the selfishness of yourself to give life so that there is another person to Glorify God.

What an awesome thought that is to understand!

God gives us what we can handle. My grandmother use to say, it’s a great life if you don’t weaken. We don’t weaken when we rely on Him and do His will.

Part of that though is discerning His will… I don’t believe God wants everyone to have 10 kids, 4 kids or even 2 to be good parents. He knows us and for some it may be better for them to only have 1 or 2 because He needs them to do other things as well.

Joe

 

[leonie]

It’s my opinion that no matter how many kids you have, you completely pour yourself out for them. It’s a self-donation.

 

[maria29]

When people start talking about how expensive children are, several questions immediately occur to me.

How many cars do they own? How big is their home? How many channels do they get on their cable/satellite TV subscription, how many TVs do they own? How many computers? How many iPods? How many stereos? How much… ?

We have become a consumer driven society that places more emphasis on personal convenience and comfort than on honest labor and self-control. Children are the casualties.

The only reason I’m bringing this up is because it directly deals with the subject of children as a blessing:

I live in one of the poorest states in the country. I run with homeschoolers, many of whom come from single-income houses (though not all, you CAN homeschool and have both parents work). These are people who have never, and will never, afford things like family vacations, college tuition, extra cars, meals eaten out, clothes not obtained second hand, etc. etc.

These are people who, by society’s standards, do not have the amount of money it takes to raise a big family. Yet they have chosen to take God at His word, that children ARE a blessing, that one stores up one’s treasure either here on earth or in Heaven, not both, and trust in His divine providence. And no, I’m not talking about being on welfare or using public assistance. I’m talking about doing without what’s considered “normal and necessary” by American consumerist society.

**If all Catholics were willing to make the kinds of sacrifices to remain open to God’s will that I see these people making, then yes, every place in this country (assuming you’re in the U.S.; I have no experience with any other locale and cannot speak to its ability to do the same) could support “tons of large Catholic families”. **

The simple truth is, removing people who physically cannot have large families, many Catholics choose to indulge in mainstream society’s guidelines for “enough money”. Many Catholics choose to operate under financial expectations that place money as a more important blessing than children.

Now I’ll set back and wait for all the indignant, "I don’t!"s.

Again posts such as these I find are extremely unfair as I know many Catholic families who would be living on the streets if they decided to have another child (us included, we and others cannot afford to have only one person working, and a babysitter costs too much) Living in one of the poorest states I am sure the cost of living is much cheaper than it is in other states. I find it sad that you’re so quick to make assumptions about fellow Catholics without even knowning what they’re fiancial life is like.

I won’t speak for others who are in this position but God has shown us that its part of his plan for us to have only one child and that we both need to work in order to survive. In fact when I went against his plan and said I don’t care what you think God I am going to get pregnant now even though you gave us a sign that it wasn’t the right time well then I ended up miscarrying.

We live in an area where the cost of living is extremely high, and we’ve got over $80,0000 worth of student loans to pay off. My dh and I have never taken a family vacation, we don’t own ipods, a house, new cars or brand new clothes. I am still waiting for someone on here to explain how to live on 46,0000 a year with over $4,000 that would need to go out a month in bills (this isn’t inlcuding groceries) Its not doable, and I don’t understand why people have a hard time realizing that God’s plan is unique for every family and that perhaps for some this entails not having a large family. Does this mean one doesn’t see children as a blessing? No of course not, but we’re called to be use the gift of reason that God gave us as well.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Yes, children are still blessings. Even when families recognize that, there is a price that all families pay when society in general views children as liabilities rather than assets.

Again posts such as these I find are extremely unfair … I find it sad that you’re so quick to make assumptions about fellow Catholics without even knowning what they’re fiancial life is like.

We live in an area where the cost of living is extremely high, and we’ve got over $80,0000 worth of student loans to pay off. … I am still waiting for someone on here to explain how to live on 46,0000 a year with over $4,000 that would need to go out a month in bills (this isn’t inlcuding groceries) …

You may take some of this too personally. The poster wrote “if *all *Catholics”. I emphasize the word “all”. (However, I realize even if all Catholics embraced Church teachings, some families would remain small.)

If larger Catholic families were the norm, rather than the exception, it would impact the rest of society. That includes everything from the price of housing to the cost of education. The US economy and prices largely work on the principle of supply and demand. Housing used to cost a much smaller percentage of income than it does in many areas now. You also wrote of needing to pay off large student loans. A college degree today means about what a high school degree used to mean, but high school cost less. Parochial school education used to be quite affordable for large Catholic families back when most teachers were religious sisters who took vows of poverty. The op’s podcast mentioned Catholic homeschooling, which in my experience some Catholics turn to as an alternative to because Catholic school is not always affordable. Those are just some examples.

 

[3GirlsRUs]

The saddest thing to me is watching how parents either expressly or by implication send the message to the kids themselves that the kids are a burden.

Now I’ve got 4 kids and by 9 PM, I’m certainly ready for the little bundles of energy to start winding down, but I love them to pieces and let them know that.

I’ve actually heard a Dad say that having kids was “the biggest mistake of his entire life”. Very sad.

I agree with this whole post.

I get so upset when I hear parents talk about how they didn’t plan or didn’t want the children they have…and the do it where the children can hear it! No wonder we have such a warped culture and kids have such low self-esteem!!!

Of course, Children are Blessings…sent directly by Heaven as another posted mentioned.

 

[Belle10]

As a homeschooling mom of six kids, I can recall moments of truly disgusting diapers/vomit/quarreling, etc, and literally crying/thinking/praying to God, “Why is raising children SO hard?” And it’s come to me what a blessing it is to raise children, not just for the awe-inspiring tender moments, but in the character-building moments. As a parent, I have the privilege of day-to-day practical exercises in

• “if you love Me, keep My commandments”
• feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked
• instruct the ignorant, admonish the sinner, counsel the doubtful
• “trust in Me,” and most especially,
• “not my will, but Thine be done.”

How much of parenthood is giving up what I want to do at this particular moment in time in order to serve a meal, clean up a mess (over and over and over again), answer a question, settle an argument, etc. etc. And because our God is so good, He has given (most of) us the desire and willingness to give of ourselves for this tiny, helpless human being, a son or daughter who is part of ourselves. God is trying to make our path to holiness (generosity and selflessness) as easy as possible. And I wonder if, when people choose unnecessarily to limit their family sizes, does God then have to “get creative” to send them other challenges in life to inspire growth and maturation?

God is so good!

This is awesome!!

 

[Cari]

Dear Maria29,

Even the casual observer to this thread can see that the subject of finances and family size is one that is very emotional to you. My initial, utterly innocent, post on the subject (the one about people I know considering a family of 4 children to be small) was instantly met with suspicion about the intentions behind it.

The very fact that it is such a hot topic with you makes me wonder if you’re really as at much peace about your family size decisions as you claim to be. After all, if you know you are following God’s will for your family (and I have never, would never, and am not saying you’re wrong about that), an interior peace about that decision would follow. Even in the midst of her Son’s Passion, our Lady kept interior peace in her soul, despite undergoing tremendous sorrow.

Basically, you don’t need to rail against one person’s observations because they don’t match your reality. I have no idea who you are or what your situation is, and I have never directed any of my comments at you. In fact, I have gone out of my way NOT to debate points from your posts in my comments.

However, these are easily observed facts:

1. Many Catholic families have taken steps (ABC, surgical mutilation, etc) to close themselves off to life.
2. Many Catholic families who have done so have what is considered “normal” family size for our culture- i.e., 1-3 children.
3. Large Catholic families (and, for the sake of discussion, I’ll arbitrarily say families of 5+ children are “large”- it’s an arbirary number, I know) are the extreme exception, rather than the norm.
4. Many Catholic families who have chosen to close themselves off to life lead an OUTWARD life (I’m only commenting on observable facts, this is no comment on their inner, spiritual life) in accordance to our society’s norms- i.e., two or more cars, family vacations, obvious evidence of recreational consumption.

Here’s the speculation part: based on these observations, I draw the conclusion that most Catholics- heck, I’ll even downgrade it to “many Catholics” for the sake of argument- do NOT view children as a blessing, and, in fact, choose earthly riches over all the heavenly riches one gains by being open to life.

But, please note, I have not said that any person here fits into this observation. If one sees oneself in the above items, then it might be food for thought, but not a judgement by me on the individual.

Also, please read very carefully the above points. It no where addresses the working poor. It no where addresses family size of people who are struggling to meet basic needs for survival. It addresses those who consider, say, a trip to Disney every year and the kids’ college tuition paid for in full as “basic needs”.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Well, she may have had people in her life, not just on the Internet, saying how she’s not “a good Catholic” for having one child at this point. And she’s probably frustrated with it. She probably wants more kids but also struggles with providing for the one she currently has.

Yes, it’s true, if more people had bigger families, housing and education costs would hopefully be smaller. But at this current time, the costs for that discourage people from having bigger families. Especially if they want a nice house in a safe neighborhood for the kids they have and if they want to help their kids pay for college (it’s very difficult for the average HS student to take on that entire cost, short of getting a very generous scholarship). And not just college, but Catholic schools/private schools, which aren’t cheap.

It’s also hard when people don’t live near extended families and they need help raising their kids. Especially if they’re new at it. The economy isn’t very family oriented at all and our culture isn’t open to it. We can try to change the culture and definitely pray, but it is going to be an uphill battle, one that takes a long time to fight.

 

[maria29]

The only reason I’m bringing this up is because it directly deals with the subject of children as a blessing:

I live in one of the poorest states in the country. I run with homeschoolers, many of whom come from single-income houses (though not all, you CAN homeschool and have both parents work). These are people who have never, and will never, afford things like family vacations, college tuition, extra cars, meals eaten out, clothes not obtained second hand, etc. etc.

These are people who, by society’s standards, do not have the amount of money it takes to raise a big family. Yet they have chosen to take God at His word, that children ARE a blessing, that one stores up one’s treasure either here on earth or in Heaven, not both, and trust in His divine providence. And no, I’m not talking about being on welfare or using public assistance. I’m talking about doing without what’s considered “normal and necessary” by American consumerist society.

If all Catholics were willing to make the kinds of sacrifices to remain open to God’s will that I see these people making, then yes, every place in this country (assuming you’re in the U.S.; I have no experience with any other locale and cannot speak to its ability to do the same) could support “tons of large Catholic families”.

The simple truth is, removing people who physically cannot have large families, many Catholics choose to indulge in mainstream society’s guidelines for “enough money”. Many Catholics choose to operate under financial expectations that place money as a more important blessing than children.

Now I’ll set back and wait for all the indignant, "I don’t!"s.

Dear Maria29,

Even the casual observer to this thread can see that the subject of finances and family size is one that is very emotional to you. My initial, utterly innocent, post on the subject (the one about people I know considering a family of 4 children to be small) was instantly met with suspicion about the intentions behind it.

The very fact that it is such a hot topic with you makes me wonder if you’re really as at much peace about your family size decisions as you claim to be. After all, if you know you are following God’s will for your family (and I have never, would never, and am not saying you’re wrong about that), an interior peace about that decision would follow. Even in the midst of her Son’s Passion, our Lady kept interior peace in her soul, despite undergoing tremendous sorrow.

Actually I am at peace but again I wasn’t trying to be defensive I just was curious about why someone was making such a point as you did in your original post about how 4 children seem small. Mostly I was just curious too about how smaller families are percieved in that locale as well.

Basically, you don’t need to rail against one person’s observations because they don’t match your reality. I have no idea who you are or what your situation is, and I have never directed any of my comments at you. In fact, I have gone out of my way NOT to debate points from your posts in my comments.

**Just as you posted info about the area where you live and how 4 children is considered a small family I too was just posting some background info about my life. It wasn’t directed towards you only but just in general to give the OP and others an idea that sometimes it does take two incomes, and that while children are always a blessing there are many Catholic families who do struggle and can’t welcome a new blessing in their life as easily as other families can.

**
However, these are easily observed facts:

1. Many Catholic families have taken steps (ABC, surgical mutilation, etc) to close themselves off to life.
2. Many Catholic families who have done so have what is considered “normal” family size for our culture- i.e., 1-3 children.
3. Large Catholic families (and, for the sake of discussion, I’ll arbitrarily say families of 5+ children are “large”- it’s an arbirary number, I know) are the extreme exception, rather than the norm.
4. Many Catholic families who have chosen to close themselves off to life lead an OUTWARD life (I’m only commenting on observable facts, this is no comment on their inner, spiritual life) in accordance to our society’s norms- i.e., two or more cars, family vacations, obvious evidence of recreational consumption.

Here’s the speculation part: based on these observations, I draw the conclusion that most Catholics- heck, I’ll even downgrade it to “many Catholics” for the sake of argument- do NOT view children as a blessing, and, in fact, choose earthly riches over all the heavenly riches one gains by being open to life.

But, please note, I have not said that any person here fits into this observation. If one sees oneself in the above items, then it might be food for thought, but not a judgement by me on the individual.

Also, please read very carefully the above points. It no where addresses the working poor. It no where addresses family size of people who are struggling to meet basic needs for survival.

** In the post I was responding to this was not made clear. You said that you live in the poorest state and" If **all Catholics ****were willing to make the kinds of sacrifices to remain open to God’s will that I see these people making, then yes, every place in this country (assuming you’re in the U.S.; I have no experience with any other locale and cannot speak to its ability to do the same) could support “tons of large Catholic families”. "

It addresses those who consider, say, a trip to Disney every year and the kids’ college tuition paid for in full as “basic needs”.

 

[maria29]

Well, she may have had people in her life, not just on the Internet, saying how she’s not “a good Catholic” for having one child at this point. And she’s probably frustrated with it. She probably wants more kids but also struggles with providing for the one she currently has.

Yes, it’s true, if more people had bigger families, housing and education costs would hopefully be smaller. But at this current time, the costs for that discourage people from having bigger families. Especially if they want a nice house in a safe neighborhood for the kids they have and if they want to help their kids pay for college (it’s very difficult for the average HS student to take on that entire cost, short of getting a very generous scholarship). And not just college, but Catholic schools/private schools, which aren’t cheap.

It’s also hard when people don’t live near extended families and they need help raising their kids. Especially if they’re new at it. The economy isn’t very family oriented at all and our culture isn’t open to it. We can try to change the culture and definitely pray, but it is going to be an uphill battle, one that takes a long time to fight.

Yes its mostly on CAF that I see this mentality about how having less children mean somehow one doesn’t trust in God. Would I love another child yes of course, but the situation is what it is. I am at peace with it and know I am doing what I am supposed to be doing in that area of my life.

 

[Marie_Duffy]

Of course they are!
My 15-year-old daughter, who is the fifth of eight children, told me a while back that one of her friends asked her whether her parents actually wanted to have all those kids, and added, “I’d hate to think I was an accident.”
I told her, "You can tell your friends, ‘My mother says there’s no such thing as an accidental pregnancy for married people,. Surprise, maybe; not accident!’ "

 

[just_me_1]

I herd on the radio (paul harvey I think) a few months ago that a family with more than 2 kids is viewed as unresponsible. I guess they should have used more birth control… ??

I am kinda on the “kids are a burden” mindset at the moment. I agree they are a blessing and understand they require sacrifices, but I am expecting and have NO IDEA how to afford one! DH and I work full time, own a place, have a vehicle payment, and otherwise live frugally. we have had no cable, no phone line other than the cell (which we use for internet), and I drive an old VW to save gas on my 40 mile commute to my dead end job… he has a company truck and makes a little more, no raise in sight. I am excited and all but I just don’t know how to pay for it! (daycare, food, diapers, etc etc etc)

so it’s not that society views KIDS as a burden, it’s the big change in lifestyle, I think, that we are too selfish to make. we are accustomed to thinking success is measured by a nice house, a nice car, vacations, etc… but then there’s dumb country folks like us with no idea how to make ends meet BEFORE the kids arrive!

God bless and happy new year!

 

[yellowbicycle]

I was at a NYE party last night.
And I was talking to this girl and she was telling me how she and her husband would be meeting with her financial adviser to figure out if they could have children.
Okay, if you HAVE a financial adviser, then yes, you can afford it, and since when did your accountant have a say in your sex life? Yikes.
Children are a blessing. It’s sad, though. It seems that the only people who know that they are a blessing are those who have lost a child or who can’t have them.
But I’ll be honest, children are the greatest blessing when they’re asleep!!

 

[Galnextdoor]

I have two awesome children. (The doctors said I wouldn’t have any. After looking at me inside, a new doctor will ask how I got pregnant. I just tell them that I got pregnant the way God intended for us to get pregnant. )

My youngest child has multiple disabilities. People would ask me how I coped with him and I would say, “He is one of my greatest joys and greatest trials, but I wouldn’t change a thing about him, because then he wouldn’t be Max.”

One rainy day when I was six, I sat at my mother’s feet while she told us fairytales, it occurred to me that my parents would be financially better off if they hadn’t had me and my nine siblings. I blurted out that she would be rich if she hadn’t had us. She said,“I am rich.” I thought she had lost her mind. She smiled at us and said, “You are my precious jewels, because of you I am the richest woman in the world.” I still thought she had lost her mind.
I never really understood what she meant until I had children of my own. Even though I almost died, if I could, I would have another child.