I’ve been thru this with other interlocutors on the other threads I mentioned, but I’ll bite (and probably get bitten) again. In your reality, does God ask us to do something that He does not do (grant forgiveness without repentance)? Or, alternatively, if we grant blanket forgiveness to others without their repentance, will He grant blanket forgiveness for our sins without the Sacrament of Reconciliation?I meant in reality. The contrived “worlds” we create have no basis in the reality we’re called to live in, just like the contrived god that some create to satisfy their own desires not to forgive. That god has no relation to the God revealed in Jesus…the God that actually exists. And there was no misunderstanding about your flame suit. You’re impervious to criticism. It’s impressive.
My “reality” is irrelevant, as is yours. Your position is based on a fallacy. You seem to love to say/hear the words “God doesn’t ask us to do something that He does not do,” but Jesus’ reality is that He went around forgiving people before they even asked. He told parable after parable describing a Kingdom where undeserved and un-asked for forgiveness is granted without reservation. He forgave those who tortured and crucified Him as they were doing it. Why do you think the religious leaders were so offended by Him?I’ve been thru this with other interlocutors on the other threads I mentioned, but I’ll bite (and probably get bitten) again. In your reality, does God ask us to do something that He does not do (grant forgiveness without repentance)? Or, alternatively, if we grant blanket forgiveness to others without their repentance, will He grant blanket forgiveness for our sins without the Sacrament of Reconciliation?
So, are you saying that if we offer blanket forgiveness to everyone who offends us, then we can skip the Sacrament of Reconciliation, because God will forgive us in the same way that we forgive others?My “reality” is irrelevant, as is yours. Your position is based on a fallacy. You seem to love to say/hear the words “God doesn’t ask us do do something that he does not do,” but Jesus’ reality is that He went around forgiving people before they even asked. He told parable after parable describing a Kingdom where undeserved and un-asked for forgiveness is granted without reservation. He forgave those who tortured and crucified Him as they were doing it. Why do you think the religious leaders were so offended by Him?
Your contentions, just like my contentions or Jimmy Akin’s contentions or Tim Staples’ contentions don’t amount to a hill of beans. You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing with Jesus. And if that’s what you call “getting bitten,” then I’m sorry.
Nope, I’m not.So, are you saying that if we offer blanket forgiveness to everyone who offends us, then we can skip the Sacrament of Reconciliation, because God will forgive us in the same way that we forgive others?
It’s really incredible how deeply you are tangled up in confusion. You repeat this phrase about God not asking us to do something that He does not do as if it’s Scripture, when it’s really just some nonsense you made up. God asks us to have faith in things that we cannot see, which is something that He does not do.In your reality, does God ask us to do something that He does not do
Nope, I’m not.
Discussions are a lot more interesting when you respond to what the other person actually says, rather than responding to your own imaginary and erroneous conclusions.
And discussions are a lot more fruitful when you answer the questions that have been posed.It’s really incredible how deeply you are tangled up in confusion. You repeat this phrase about God not asking us to do something that He does not do as if it’s Scripture, when it’s really just some nonsense you made up. God asks us to have faith in things that we cannot see, which is something that He does not do.
I did say as much in the second paragraph of #34.God doesn’t ask us to do what he himself doesn’t do. There is a certain logic in that. However, it may not be completely accurate. God may ask us to do something if we need it, even if he himself doesn’t. Unforgiveness can be a great burden for people. Thus, even if we are not obligated to forgive it may be still wise to do so. Ultimately, reconciliation would be most preferred. Without forgiveness and reconciliation we could not have a society.
Yes. But in the matter of forgiveness, we are to imitate the way He forgives, as revealed in what Jesus did and taught.And discussions are a lot more fruitful when you answer the questions that have been posed.
Does God ask us to do things that He Himself does not do? Yes, or no?
Exactly! I wrote an entire novel about God’s mercy (Rain from Heaven) in which I contrast two characters: one who forgives and one who won’t (and yes, the person in question is unrepentant). The one who refuses to forgive is so bitter and angry that he actually starts becoming an awful lot like the person he won’t forgive.You have a point. It may be dangerous to tell people they don’t have to forgive someone who is not sorry. I know someone who is on a prayer team and he says one of the things that he tries to do is get people to forgive because that is what they need to do for their own healing. I can understand Akin and Staples only if their definition of forgiveness includes reconciliation. But, it seems as though it makes more sense to separate the two because it is possible for us to forgive without reconciliation. The authors try to say that God doesn’t obligate us to do what be doesn’t, namely forgive the unrepentant. That may be true, but there is a big difference between God and us. God doesn’t get hurt. We do. We need to forgive in order for our own healing.
Nothing should stand in the way of the greatest commandments, we should love all our neighbours as we love ourselves.The one who refuses to forgive is so bitter and angry that he actually starts becoming an awful lot like the person he won’t forgive.