Are Christians the New Jews?

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Doxiemom said:
no. cuz you know what it means.
this is not a sincere conversation
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Doxie,

No, I don’t know.

The Father has a bride?
The Son has a wife?
The Holy Spirit is a bachelor?

Explain this in simple terms.
 
Doxiemom said:
Well thank you for asking me and I will try my best to answer as well as i can.

First let me talk about the Bride: We were given our mission by Jesus to go forth into the world and preach the Good news. It is being done. Believers know just Who their messiah , their Savior, is.

The Bride( christians, past, present, and those who will be before this event happens) is like a bride dressed in her beautiful white gown waiting for the sacrament of marriage to be completed. She knows who the bridegroom is and they love one another.

So when the Marriage Supper of the lamb takes place in heaven, then the Bride is joined together with the Bridegroom . Jesus said he would not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the proper day comes and this will be that day. So , in this sense, you are correct, our fate is not complete. We have yet for this to happen and , as one more thing,many of us will be part of the governance when Jesus rules on earth as King.

But since God has already joined himself to the jews under the Abrahamic Covenant- a blood covenant- liken unto when a man first is intimate with his wife and her blood is shed- she will always belong to him.

You have to put aside the secular jews, the messianic jews, and consider what are refered to as torah jews. According to Scripture, there will be 144,000 Jewish men (12 x 12,000) who will be sealed by God during the tims called Tribulation. They will be sought and Anti-christ will try to wipe out all jews, but these will be supernaturely protected by god. A rather sci-fi idea, i know, but I am talking God here. These are the men- assuming their womean and children also- whose eyes have had scales that blinded them, their ears have been closed up, and kept for this day. Their eyes and ears will be opened and see their messiah-Jesus-pierced- and mourn for Him as a brother.

Their mission will be to preach to all who are living though this time of living hell on earth. They , after all, are still the Chosen people, who will bring the Word to the world. Not just as moses brought the law to the hebrews, but the World of God to all the world. They are the Chosen People, and God gave them this task and God never changes. it is still their birth-right.

until the time when the earth is purged by fire and we shall have Eden again, this is still to be their task- preaching the Word. becasue sthere will still be people with rebellion against Jesus in their hearts. That is how much God loves His spouse, this people set apart. How important they are.

They have not been replaced by Christians…

This is what issiah speaks of and what paul spoke of and what john spoke of the things to come in Revelation. And other bibical prophets.

There are honest sincere Christians who have been taught that the jews are cast aside and that all these things have either been accomplished or will be accomplished by Christians. catholics esp. believe it is only catholics and it is all about rome and not about jerusalem. They, as i see it, are just wrong. being wrong is not a sin, it simply means you are wrong.
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Thank you for your kind answer 🙂 I think I understand you. The marriage will take place in heaven when Christians reunite with Jesus.

However, here’re - how could it be any other way 😃 - some more questions…What happens during the Eucharist though, isn’t it a means to unite with Jesus on earth who is alive in this sacrament?
Jesus said he wouldn’t drink from the fruit of the vine anymore until he would drink it with the father in heaven. The last time he drank from the fruit was on the cross before he died, which is when the passover supper was completed. And he didn’t specifically say that he would drink it with others in heaven. After his resurrection he visited some disciples and broke the bread with them, and this was when they recognized who he was. Breaking the bread with them was so important to him that this was the first thing he did after his resurrection. He broke the bread and gave thanks. It seems as if Catholics physically unite with Christ in the Eucharist on earth like the bridegroom physically unites with his bride?
 
Doxiemom said:
it says what it says in the Old testament.
God the Father has as His wife the Hebrew people. Jesus-the Son- has Christians as His Bride- He would not lose one of us as we were given to Him by His Father.
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Interesting. Can you give me the Old Testament quote(s) that refer to the Jews as the “wife” of God? No one can argue that Jews are God’s chosen people. It was Jesus, a Jew, however, that expanded the family of God to include all people as God’s “bride” so that “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:28). I have never heard the notion that the Father had a wife and Jesus would have another. Something just doesn’t click so I must be missing something. Maybe you could explain further.

Thanks.
 
Doxiemom said:
Nope

We are the wild branch grafted onto the fig tree. The Jews are still the original branchs of the fig tree.

No one replaces the Jews ( and I speak of torah jews,) They are still covered under the Blood covenant between Abraham and God Himself .

Just as we, Christians, are the Bride of Christ, The Bridegroom , with Whom we all shall sit down with in the Supper of the Lamb on great day in heaven, the Jewish people are the wife of God. There are many references to this marriage in the old testament. God would not get a divorce.

you see, events are not done and God still has a plan for them.

Replacement doctrine is a lie.
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wow you are right on–

and that is so surprising on this forum-- because people seem to have the hermeneutics confused

Biblical hermeneutics is the science of properly interpreting the various types of literature found in the Bible.

might i share some of the “hebrew roots” movement info?

jim staley has a pretty good teaching of bible history–

and i like michael rood on the teaching of the hebrew understanding of baptism- the historical aspect of the jewish mikveh or baptism

Published on Mar 8, 2012
For two thousand years we have all been taught that Israel is the Jewish people and the Jewish people are Israel.

This misunderstanding has crippled our ability to truly glean from the scriptures all that was originally intended. The greatest prophecy of the bible concerns this very topic.

Many have called this teaching the key to understanding the entire bible.

I will let Professor C.A.L. Totten of Yale University tell you his thoughts concerning this very subject:

"I can never be too thankful to the Almighty that in my youth he used the late Professor Wilson to show me the difference between the two houses

. The very understanding of this difference is the KEY by which almost the entire Bible becomes intelligible, and

I cannot state too strongly that the man who has not yet seen that Israel of the Scripture is totally distinct from the Jewish people,

is yet in the very infancy, the mere alphabet of Biblical study, and that to this day the meaning of seven-eighths of the Bible is shut to his understanding."

—Professor C.A.L. Totten (1851-1908) of Yale University
 
SteveVH said:
Interesting. Can you give me the Old Testament quote(s) that refer to the Jews as the “wife” of God? No one can argue that Jews are God’s chosen people. It was Jesus, a Jew, however, that expanded the family of God to include all people as God’s “bride” so that “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:28). I have never heard the notion that the Father had a wife and Jesus would have another. Something just doesn’t click so I must be missing something. Maybe you could explain further.

Thanks.
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Bible verses:
Isaiah 54:5
Jeremiah 3:14
hosea 2:16 and 2:19

this is not a common teaching. But isn’t scripture full of things that need to be discovered and then you say to yourself"how did I miss that?"

It was Paul whom you quoted and he was trying to clear up bickering ( sound familiar?) between different cultures. Jews always excluded gentiles and it was going to take a heck of a lot of adjusting to accept them. Peter had to be given a whole vision about this by God.
 
1answer said:
wow you are right on–

and that is so surprising on this forum-- because people seem to have the hermeneutics confused

Biblical hermeneutics is the science of properly interpreting the various types of literature found in the Bible.

might i share some of the “hebrew roots” movement info?

jim staley has a pretty good teaching of bible history–

and i like michael rood on the teaching of the hebrew understanding of baptism- the historical aspect of the jewish mikveh or baptism

Published on Mar 8, 2012
For two thousand years we have all been taught that Israel is the Jewish people and the Jewish people are Israel.

This misunderstanding has crippled our ability to truly glean from the scriptures all that was originally intended. The greatest prophecy of the bible concerns this very topic.

Many have called this teaching the key to understanding the entire bible.

I will let Professor C.A.L. Totten of Yale University tell you his thoughts concerning this very subject:

"I can never be too thankful to the Almighty that in my youth he used the late Professor Wilson to show me the difference between the two houses

. The very understanding of this difference is the KEY by which almost the entire Bible becomes intelligible, and

I cannot state too strongly that the man who has not yet seen that Israel of the Scripture is totally distinct from the Jewish people,

is yet in the very infancy, the mere alphabet of Biblical study, and that to this day the meaning of seven-eighths of the Bible is shut to his understanding."

—Professor C.A.L. Totten (1851-1908) of Yale University
Click to expand...
I love it when I learn of the deeper meaning of the original language and also of the meanings of the Appointed Days and of the very Jewishness of Jesus. Much of what He said seemed rather mystical to me, but to the jews he was speaking to, they knew exactly what he was talking about. Unless He chose to befuddle their minds for a bit of time until necessary.

Even the very letters of their script always point upward towards God!
 
504Katrin said:
Thank you for your kind answer 🙂 I think I understand you. The marriage will take place in heaven when Christians reunite with Jesus.

However, here’re - how could it be any other way 😃 - some more questions…What happens during the Eucharist though, isn’t it a means to unite with Jesus on earth who is alive in this sacrament?
Jesus said he wouldn’t drink from the fruit of the vine anymore until he would drink it with the father in heaven. The last time he drank from the fruit was on the cross before he died, which is when the passover supper was completed. And he didn’t specifically say that he would drink it with others in heaven. After his resurrection he visited some disciples and broke the bread with them, and this was when they recognized who he was. Breaking the bread with them was so important to him that this was the first thing he did after his resurrection. He broke the bread and gave thanks. It seems as if Catholics physically unite with Christ in the Eucharist on earth like the bridegroom physically unites with his bride?
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i hope i do you service and answer your questions.

First, Jesus ate with His friends(He gave down His life for His friends) first to show them He was fully was physically alive and not a “ghost”.

As for the Marriage Supper of the lamb, what i failed to say that it is at this time that those in heaven would have been reunited with their physical bodies ( in a perfect state) and it would be possible for us to eat with the Lord. we too would not be ‘ghosts’ so to say.

I understand what you are saying about the catholic eucharist. perhaps a more catachized catholic should answer that one as i may not be qualified enough . I will say that no-one, no other christian church, remebers the last Supper with more love, more honestly and beauty, than how the Catholic Mass is done.
 
CopticChristian said:
Doxie,

No, I don’t know.

The Father has a bride?
The Son has a wife?
The Holy Spirit is a bachelor?

Explain this in simple terms.
Click to expand...
Ok, i could not resist.
On the lighter side of answers

the bachelor Holy Spirit left the scene after he overcame Mary and got her pregnant

Lord , forgive me, I am being so bad here.
 
Doxiemom said:
Bible verses:

Isaiah 54:5
Jeremiah 3:14
hosea 2:16 and 2:19

this is not a common teaching. But isn’t scripture full of things that need to be discovered and then you say to yourself"how did I miss that?"
Click to expand...
Yes, when it is something my Church teaches. All references to marriage, or bridegroom and bride, or husband and wife, are refering to the wedding feast of the Lamb. It is a divine event explained in human langauge. The point is that God’s family, the body of Christ, will be so intimately in union with God that it can only be likened to the joining of two people in the bonds of marriage. These passages do not mean that the Father has a wife (Israel) and that Jesus has a wife (Christians).
Doxiemom said:
It was Paul whom you quoted and he was trying to clear up bickering ( sound familiar?) between different cultures. Jews always excluded gentiles and it was going to take a heck of a lot of adjusting to accept them. Peter had to be given a whole vision about this by God.
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But look at what he said. He may have been clearing up bickering but that does not make his words any less important or true. In Christ there is no longer Jew or gentile. That is the point. We are made one with each other and with Christ.
 
Doxiemom said:
Ok, i could not resist.
On the lighter side of answers

the bachelor Holy Spirit left the scene after he overcame Mary and got her pregnant

Lord , forgive me, I am being so bad here.
Click to expand...
Doxie,

You do not take any of this very seriously do you. Explain the wife and bride.
 
chosen_people said:
The author of the article:

patheos.com/Jewish/Christians-New-Jews-Yitzchok-Adlerstein-02-21-2013

an Orthodox Rabbi, posits that today Christians around the world are being persecuted in the same way and for many of the same reasons that Jews have been persecuted throughout the centuries.
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Christianity (at least Catholic and Orthodox Christianity) are the continuation of Judaism. There are two branches of Judaism today: Rabbinic Judaism and Catholic/Orthodox Christianity. Temple Judaism ended in 70 A.D. We are part of the SAME religion. Time we started acting that way.
 
Dear Coptic

I am sorry I have failed you. I apologize for an inapproriate post to you. Pride made me write that. One of the deadly sins that I wrestle with.

I think it would be best for you now to ask your priest about this subject matter. You can refer to Isaiah 54:5; Jeremiah3 :14; and also Hosea 2 :16 & 2:19 but there are others.

I still think that there is plenty of Scripture to justify what I have posted on this subject. if it conflicts with the catachism of the catholic church I am in no way trying to get anyone to violate this belief system.

My answer is plain: we are not the New Jews. We have not replaced the Jews. Rome has not replaced Jerusalem. It does not mean we are the “lesser” as we are heirs and co-heirs to the Kingdom of God. We are the wild branch grafted onto the fig tree and the fig tree is the symbol for Israel, the people Israel.It does not mean that Rome isn’t become a holy place, for it is a place now much beloved by God…The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for spreading the Word to the whole of the known world. She is a good and faithful servant of God.

Go to your priest and ask him. he will help you.

In Christ
Dox
 
Boy_Wonder said:
Christianity (at least Catholic and Orthodox Christianity) are the continuation of Judaism. There are two branches of Judaism today: Rabbinic Judaism and Catholic/Orthodox Christianity. Temple Judaism ended in 70 A.D. We are part of the SAME religion. Time we started acting that way.
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Yes, the two branches of the fig tree with which we share the same root system.The wild branch did not cause the natural branch to die and fall away. Over time, the tree would have shown the healing “scars” where the wild branch was joined.

There will be a day,a mighty day, when jew and gentile will bend knee and worship Messiah together.

I shall see that day.
 
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