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estesbob
Guest
The answer to your question is YES.
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stbruno
Guest
My spouse and I do marriage prep for two parishes as well as the diocese as FOCCUS facilitators. Whenever we get cohabitating couples which is probably 85-90% of the time…they also answer that they do not regularly attend church. In fact, in most cases, everything else precludes attending church. It doesn’t matter if they are in a prenuptial first time cohabitating situation either. If they cohabitat, rarely are they followers of church regulations let alone the commandments. The reason they are coming to church for the wedding is usually to satisfy parents or they like the long aisle and the picture setting.
Although hopefully with the literature we give them from dozens of sources, secular and Catholic as well as our own marital experiences and the teachings of the Church…we hope that we plant seeds of real thought of the definition of marriage and love. And it’s not Hollywood style either.
However, if researchers are just talking to cohabitating couples rather than also including couples who do not cohabitate in the discussion… it may stand to reason that researchers might believe that if the church changes to accomodate the social environment…things would improve??? How ludicrous is that!
We remind our couples…the greatest thing you can do for your loved ones is to do everything to make sure they get to heaven. If you nag them…or berate them, or irritate them or cohabitate with them…do you think that will help them get to heaven. But if you do everything with the intent that the two of you will be heaven, starting with inviting Jesus to the wedding…then you are on the right track. I am surprised that these researchers from Creighton University, home of the FOCCUS program (marriage prep) would come up with this absurdity. More reasons to pray for families and young couples.
Although hopefully with the literature we give them from dozens of sources, secular and Catholic as well as our own marital experiences and the teachings of the Church…we hope that we plant seeds of real thought of the definition of marriage and love. And it’s not Hollywood style either.
However, if researchers are just talking to cohabitating couples rather than also including couples who do not cohabitate in the discussion… it may stand to reason that researchers might believe that if the church changes to accomodate the social environment…things would improve??? How ludicrous is that!
We remind our couples…the greatest thing you can do for your loved ones is to do everything to make sure they get to heaven. If you nag them…or berate them, or irritate them or cohabitate with them…do you think that will help them get to heaven. But if you do everything with the intent that the two of you will be heaven, starting with inviting Jesus to the wedding…then you are on the right track. I am surprised that these researchers from Creighton University, home of the FOCCUS program (marriage prep) would come up with this absurdity. More reasons to pray for families and young couples.
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
Well said, StBruno! :clapping:
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Smber2c
Guest
No, I don’t think it’s ‘ever’ okay for a couple to co-habitate.
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PaulinVA
Guest
Yes, if they are living as husband and wife.
Romans 12:2:
Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.
Amazing, absolutely amazing. Since everyone else is living together we should be able to also. Why would anyone want to start their marriage with a fake living arrangement, a lie?
Romans 12:2:
Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.
Amazing, absolutely amazing. Since everyone else is living together we should be able to also. Why would anyone want to start their marriage with a fake living arrangement, a lie?
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Stitch
Guest
Yes! Even when I left the church in my late teens, I wouldn’t even consider cohabiting.
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Nepenthe
Guest
Huh. Really. Though I am not a Catholic, and I am indeed cohabiting (married in a few months, eek! 
) I have also cohabited entirely chastely and gladly, and maintain that chastity truly is in the mind, and if it can be done, instructional for a couple.
But if it cannot, then if they are Catholic, it is very likely a bad idea, and even if they aren’t, it may still be inadvisable. If their monsignor spoke with them and advised them to the best of his ability, then I hope they take his advice graciously, and take the opportunity to learn from their time together in chastity. They may learn friendship and cooperation that will serve them excellently later on. Sometimes needs must in this world, and it’s hard to be young, and poor, and hopeful and in love.
) I have also cohabited entirely chastely and gladly, and maintain that chastity truly is in the mind, and if it can be done, instructional for a couple.But if it cannot, then if they are Catholic, it is very likely a bad idea, and even if they aren’t, it may still be inadvisable. If their monsignor spoke with them and advised them to the best of his ability, then I hope they take his advice graciously, and take the opportunity to learn from their time together in chastity. They may learn friendship and cooperation that will serve them excellently later on. Sometimes needs must in this world, and it’s hard to be young, and poor, and hopeful and in love.
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Godefridus
Guest
I found a very educational article about Gratian and the medieval canonists. Link! Caution, the article doesn’t mince words when it comes to the activities proscribed by these men.
I just find it funny that the two Creighton “theologians” are pushing promiscuity in the name of *Gratian *of all people.
I just find it funny that the two Creighton “theologians” are pushing promiscuity in the name of *Gratian *of all people.
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jenjen1026
Guest
As a person who had sex before marriage (only with my husband) I do not agree with this website. Living together is only temptation for sex. I didn’t live with my husband, but we lived way too close and it was always a temptation. I wish that we had waited until after we were married, but I’m a sinner. I made a bad call. I can only hope that other people I know will listen to my story and see that it’s worth waiting for.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
**I graduated from Creighton University in Omaha, where the authors of the article in question run Creighton University’s Center for Marriage and Family, and I can tell you that the problems with this article only scratch the surface of the things they try to push forward.
On that note, please read the attached article which details the response from the Bishop of the Omaha Archdiocese. He severed the relationship between the Archdiocese and Creighton University’s Center for Marriage and Family until such time that Lawler and Risch are fired and the university formally renounces their conclusions. **
omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1000&u_sid=10066853
Full text: Published Thursday | June 28, 2007
Church Blasts Premarital Sex Proposal
By OSKAR GARCIA Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press
OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - The Omaha Archdiocese has severed ties with a Jesuit university’s family center after two researchers urged the church to allow unmarried couples to live together and have sex and children as long as they are engaged.
The Creighton University researchers’ essay, published in the June issue of U.S. Catholic magazine, said that more unmarried Catholic couples are living together today, and that they doubt the claim that the couples are living in sin.
“It would appear closer to the truth that they are growing, perhaps slowly but nonetheless surely, into grace,” Michael Lawler and Gail Risch wrote.
The essay prompted a letter to the editor from Omaha Archbishop Elden Curtiss. The June 5 letter, a copy of which was provided to The Associated Press by the archdiocese, aimed to discredit the researchers as Catholic theologians and dissociated the university’s Center for Marriage and Family from the archdiocese.
“The teaching of the Catholic Church about fornication is clear and unambiguous; it is always objectively a serious sin,” Curtiss wrote.
Curtiss wrote separate letters to the authors and Creighton’s president, Rev. John Schlegel, said the Rev. Joseph Taphorn, chancellor of the archdiocese.
Taphorn did not know of any collaborations that were canceled because of Curtiss’ decision, but said the archdiocese had worked with the university’s center on several projects in the past. One project was designed to help couples assess their religious beliefs and bond from them.
“We will no longer be cooperating with them on future projects because there’s obviously a big theological difference,” Taphorn said.
A spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said the proposal was an appalling attempt to gain the benefits of marriage without getting married.
“It’s better to help young people prepare for marriage and better to help them to make a lifelong commitment - which marriage is - than to have what sounds like some kind of quasi-marriage,” Sister Mary Ann Walsh said Thursday.
Lawler and Risch wrote that between the 12th and 16th centuries, the Catholic Church allowed couples to have sex once they were betrothed. That changed under the Council of Trent, but many modern Catholic couples have reverted to living together and having sex before their weddings, the authors wrote.
“Catholics who believe that all premarital sex is wrong believe that the ritual requirement of a wedding has always been the norm in the Catholic tradition. It has not,” the authors wrote.
Lawler is the director of Creighton’s Center for Marriage and Family and a professor emeritus of Catholic theology. Risch is a researcher for the center. Neither they nor Schlegel were available for comment Thursday, Creighton spokeswoman Deb Daley said.
Daley said that while the Catholic Church has final say in matters of moral theology, the university allows academic freedom to discuss related issues.
“It’s an interesting tension that exists,” Daley said. “But perhaps a forum of a mainstream publication wasn’t the way to discuss the issue.”
Daley said the archdiocese’s decision to sever ties with the center would not affect its funding and she did not believe its programs would be cut or reduced.
Taphorn said the archdiocese would be open to unsevering ties with the center if Lawler and Risch were replaced and if the archdiocese felt it was in agreement with the center philosophically. Daley had no response to that suggestion.
Daley said that despite the rift, the university’s overall relationship with the archdiocese remains in good shape.
“We will pursue our relationship with the archdiocese, and I think there are some conversations that need to take place,” Daley said.
Creighton is affiliated with the Society of Jesus, a Roman Catholic religious order, and has an enrollment of about 6,700 students. Its Center for Marriage and Family was established in 1994 to research marriage and family issues.
On that note, please read the attached article which details the response from the Bishop of the Omaha Archdiocese. He severed the relationship between the Archdiocese and Creighton University’s Center for Marriage and Family until such time that Lawler and Risch are fired and the university formally renounces their conclusions. **
omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1000&u_sid=10066853
Full text: Published Thursday | June 28, 2007
Church Blasts Premarital Sex Proposal
By OSKAR GARCIA Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press
OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - The Omaha Archdiocese has severed ties with a Jesuit university’s family center after two researchers urged the church to allow unmarried couples to live together and have sex and children as long as they are engaged.
The Creighton University researchers’ essay, published in the June issue of U.S. Catholic magazine, said that more unmarried Catholic couples are living together today, and that they doubt the claim that the couples are living in sin.
“It would appear closer to the truth that they are growing, perhaps slowly but nonetheless surely, into grace,” Michael Lawler and Gail Risch wrote.
The essay prompted a letter to the editor from Omaha Archbishop Elden Curtiss. The June 5 letter, a copy of which was provided to The Associated Press by the archdiocese, aimed to discredit the researchers as Catholic theologians and dissociated the university’s Center for Marriage and Family from the archdiocese.
“The teaching of the Catholic Church about fornication is clear and unambiguous; it is always objectively a serious sin,” Curtiss wrote.
Curtiss wrote separate letters to the authors and Creighton’s president, Rev. John Schlegel, said the Rev. Joseph Taphorn, chancellor of the archdiocese.
Taphorn did not know of any collaborations that were canceled because of Curtiss’ decision, but said the archdiocese had worked with the university’s center on several projects in the past. One project was designed to help couples assess their religious beliefs and bond from them.
“We will no longer be cooperating with them on future projects because there’s obviously a big theological difference,” Taphorn said.
A spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said the proposal was an appalling attempt to gain the benefits of marriage without getting married.
“It’s better to help young people prepare for marriage and better to help them to make a lifelong commitment - which marriage is - than to have what sounds like some kind of quasi-marriage,” Sister Mary Ann Walsh said Thursday.
Lawler and Risch wrote that between the 12th and 16th centuries, the Catholic Church allowed couples to have sex once they were betrothed. That changed under the Council of Trent, but many modern Catholic couples have reverted to living together and having sex before their weddings, the authors wrote.
“Catholics who believe that all premarital sex is wrong believe that the ritual requirement of a wedding has always been the norm in the Catholic tradition. It has not,” the authors wrote.
Lawler is the director of Creighton’s Center for Marriage and Family and a professor emeritus of Catholic theology. Risch is a researcher for the center. Neither they nor Schlegel were available for comment Thursday, Creighton spokeswoman Deb Daley said.
Daley said that while the Catholic Church has final say in matters of moral theology, the university allows academic freedom to discuss related issues.
“It’s an interesting tension that exists,” Daley said. “But perhaps a forum of a mainstream publication wasn’t the way to discuss the issue.”
Daley said the archdiocese’s decision to sever ties with the center would not affect its funding and she did not believe its programs would be cut or reduced.
Taphorn said the archdiocese would be open to unsevering ties with the center if Lawler and Risch were replaced and if the archdiocese felt it was in agreement with the center philosophically. Daley had no response to that suggestion.
Daley said that despite the rift, the university’s overall relationship with the archdiocese remains in good shape.
“We will pursue our relationship with the archdiocese, and I think there are some conversations that need to take place,” Daley said.
Creighton is affiliated with the Society of Jesus, a Roman Catholic religious order, and has an enrollment of about 6,700 students. Its Center for Marriage and Family was established in 1994 to research marriage and family issues.
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goofyjim
Guest
So what is one with same sex attraction to do? They can’t live with the opposite sex because obviously one would call that cohabiting which it would be. But then some say they can’t live with same sex arguing the temptation of sex. And in this world it is too darn expensive to live alone.
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Oscarthecat
Guest
…think you’ve gone a little bit off the beaten path here, but I might as well mention that gay couples can’t get legally, canonically, or sacramentally married, so any attempt to draw a parallel between them and an engaged couple is moot. Homosexual attraction is completely disordered, and so one’s handling of such an attraction would be very different. That is, women and men are supposed to be attracted to one another, and so the goal would not be to address the fundamental attraction, but to channel that attraction appropriately. Same sex attraction is inappropriate and disordered whether you’re sharing an apartment or not.
There is no specific canonical prohibition against two people who are not romantically involved from sharing a residence. Such an arrangement might be considered appropriate given sufficient reasons (safety, financial, etc) so long as there is reasonable confidence that the occasion for sin is minimal. Of course, reasons of finances and safety would have to be objectively true, and not simply excuses.
While I am certainly not defending premarital cohabitation, to answer your question, laws are most effective with a well ordered conscience, common sense, and self control.
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gam3rchic
Guest
I thought that deliberating putting yourself in temptation to sin is a sin because we should always try to stay away from temptations. Heck, when we pray the Our Father it asks God “lead us not into temptation” so why would we deliberately put ourselves into temptation?? 
I dunno, just me two cents.
Besides, living together after getting married is kinda part of the fun of getting married and starting a new life together…I thought so anyway
I dunno, just me two cents.
Besides, living together after getting married is kinda part of the fun of getting married and starting a new life together…I thought so anyway
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Then there are those who pray: “Lead me not into temptation, I enjoy finding my own route.”I thought that deliberating putting yourself in temptation to sin is a sin because we should always try to stay away from temptations. Heck, when we pray the Our Father it asks God “lead us not into temptation” so why would we deliberately put ourselves into temptation??
. . .
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gam3rchic
Guest
lolThen there are those who pray: “Lead me not into temptation, I enjoy finding my own route.”
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