Are conservative protestants Christian?

[mrjames]

Hello,
I am a Conservative Protestant, and have a Catholic friend who continually claims that I may not get eternal life if I don’t become a Catholic. What is the Catholic Church’s official teacing about Protestants? My friend sends me quotes from various Catholic church fathers who claim that Protestants are not going to receive eternal life. I have seen on these forums that it is ok for
Catholics to go see their protestant friend get baptized. Do Catholic leaders disagree on whether Protestants are Christian?

 

[exoflare]

The main difference is Catholics have the whole truth of the faith intact as it was transmitted by the apostles on down to this day. Protestants, to varying degrees, have rejected parts of it throughout history.

Don’t take this statement for any more than itself, but the Church does acknowledge that it is not impossible for a Protestant to go to heaven without becoming Catholic.

 

[CollegeCatholic]

mrjames:

Hello,
I am a Conservative Protestant, and have a Catholic friend who continually claims that I may not get eternal life if I don’t become a Catholic. What is the Catholic Church’s official teacing about Protestants? My friend sends me quotes from various Catholic church fathers who claim that Protestants are not going to receive eternal life. I have seen on these forums that it is ok for
Catholics to go see their protestant friend get baptized. Do Catholic leaders disagree on whether Protestants are Christian?

Your friend is being misleading. Although there is indeed no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, actual institutional membership of a parish is not what we mean by that statement. The Catholic Church actually allows for the possibility of even a non-Christian attaining salvation. God works in mysterious ways and we may be surprised as to who we meet in heaven but it simply boils down to letting God take over your life and acting on that which God convicts you. With that being said, the wholeness of Truth can only be found in Christ’s established Church that acts as a distributor of Graces through the Sacraments. The only way that we can be assured salvation is by faithful adherence to Christ and His Church. In closing, while it would not be accurate to condemn you as going to hell, it would also not be accurate for one to remove the Catholic Church from the salvific picture as Christ gave the Church the power to “bind and loose.”

 

[Tonks40]

CollegeCatholic:

Your friend is being misleading. Although there is indeed no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, actual institutional membership of a parish is not what we mean by that statement. The Catholic Church actually allows for the possibility of even a non-Christian attaining salvation. God works in mysterious ways and we may be surprised as to who we meet in heaven but it simply boils down to letting God take over your life and acting on that which God convicts you. With that being said, the wholeness of Truth can only be found in Christ’s established Church that acts as a distributor of Graces through the Sacraments. The only way that we can be assured salvation is by faithful adherence to Christ and His Church. In closing, while it would not be accurate to condemn you as going to hell, it would also not be accurate for one to remove the Catholic Church from the salvific picture as Christ gave the Church the power to “bind and loose.”

Nicely said!

 

[Pjs2ejs]

Catholics indeed believe that Protestants are Christian. Because of no fault of their own (i.e. family, place of birth), they were not given the truth of the Catholic Church. Now, if I were you, I would try to find out exactly what the reasons are that you are not Catholic. At some point, we will be responsible for our own journey.

 

[12volt_man]

mrjames:

Hello,
I am a Conservative Protestant, and have a Catholic friend who continually claims that I may not get eternal life if I don’t become a Catholic. What is the Catholic Church’s official teacing about Protestants? My friend sends me quotes from various Catholic church fathers who claim that Protestants are not going to receive eternal life. I have seen on these forums that it is ok for
Catholics to go see their protestant friend get baptized. Do Catholic leaders disagree on whether Protestants are Christian?

Roman Catholicism teaches that there is no salvation outside of the rituals of the Roman Catholic church.

 

[tdandh26]

12volt_man:

Roman Catholicism teaches that there is no salvation outside of the rituals of the Roman Catholic church.

NO it does not. It teaches that all are saved according to the merits that the Church has received from Christ. So if a person not Catholic lives a good life according to that which he has received he can be saved by these same merits. This in no way absolves someone from studying their faith with a pure heart. God is the ultimate Judge, and if a person rejects some teaching not strictly out of ignorance but rather out selfishness or pride then that person is liable to judgement. This also in no way says that all Catholics are saved either. For a person who has received more, then more is expected.

 

[12volt_man]

tdandh26:

NO it does not.

Funny, I was just told in another thread that Protestants (and I am assuming that this includes Baptists, too) cannot be saved. Not only that we aren’t saved, but that we cannot be saved.

Marilana I think is the girl’s name. She was quite emphatic that we are going to Hell.

It teaches that all are saved according to the merits that the Church has received from Christ.

As opposed to the Bible, which teaches that we are saved by faith in Christ.

So if a person not Catholic lives a good life according to that which he has received he can be saved by these same merits.

No, living a good life will not save you.

God is the ultimate Judge, and if a person rejects some teaching not strictly out of ignorance but rather out selfishness or pride then that person is liable to judgement.

Let me make this clear: I soundly reject Roman Catholicism, it’s teachings, it’s rituals, it’s pope, all with the full knowledge of what Catholics believe that this means.

I am still saved.

 

[sadie2723]

CollegeCatholic:

Your friend is being misleading. Although there is indeed no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, actual institutional membership of a parish is not what we mean by that statement. The Catholic Church actually allows for the possibility of even a non-Christian attaining salvation. God works in mysterious ways and we may be surprised as to who we meet in heaven but it simply boils down to letting God take over your life and acting on that which God convicts you. With that being said, the wholeness of Truth can only be found in Christ’s established Church that acts as a distributor of Graces through the Sacraments. The only way that we can be assured salvation is by faithful adherence to Christ and His Church. In closing, while it would not be accurate to condemn you as going to hell, it would also not be accurate for one to remove the Catholic Church from the salvific picture as Christ gave the Church the power to “bind and loose.”

Well put!!!

 

[tdandh26]

Hello 12 volt,
Tell ya what answer these few for me.
-Why did Christ say “if you want to be my disciple pick up your cross and follow me.”
-What was the reason the man who did not have on a wedding garment cast out of the banquet, for surely he showed faith by coming in the first place.
-What about those who say Lord Lord and Jesus responds I do not know you, for whatever You DID to least of mine you did to Me.
-Jesus says to the young man if you wish to be perfect sell all you own and follow me.

Tell me why is it that you pit Paul against Christs teaching when Paul himself says if anyone preaches a gospel different from the one you have received let him be anathema.
Tell me what does Paul mean when he says “I work out my salvation with trembling and fear?”

I cannot speak of what someone on another thread might have said to you but I am being sincere the Church does not say you must be Catholic to get to heaven. Although everyone who is baptised is part of the Mystical Body of Christ which is His Catholic Church. He only has one Body.

One more question why are there so many different baptist denominations who teach differing things. Did not Jesus say that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Jesus instituted one Church. Luther, Calvin, Zwinglie and a few others disected Him.

 

[12volt_man]

tdandh26:

I cannot speak of what someone on another thread might have said to you but I am being sincere the Church does not say you must be Catholic to get to heaven. Although everyone who is baptised is part of the Mystical Body of Christ which is His Catholic Church. He only has one Body.

The problem is that I’ve been told this by several people on this board, too.

A few thoughts from your own popes (and, remember, to disagree with them is to disagree with God, Himself):

**" He who is seperated from the body of the Catholic Church, however praiseworthy his conduct may otherwise seem, will not be saved."

Pope Gregory XVI " Perlatum Ad Nos"

It is most difficult for me to think of any Dogma of the Church that is more controversial than this. This is not any Dogma, it is the most fundamental one. While many of the teachings of the Church are under attack such as the use of contraceptives, divorce,abortion and even the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, “Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus” is outright rejected by most Catholics.
The purpose Christ created His Church is for the salvation of souls. The idea that a person can find salvation outside the Church of Jesus Christ is heresy and offensive to those who love Our Lord. It makes His coming and suffering His Passion unnecessary if people could be saved without Him and His teachings. In short, it rejects His divinity! How could He be God if He taught that without the waters of Baptism a person could not see the Kingdom of God , if, as those who reject this Dogma would have it, a person could be saved without the Sacrament of Baptism? Did He not know it was unnecessary to die on the Cross because people can be saved without the Sacraments He instituted? Did He not know it was unnecessary to build His Church upon the rock of Saint Peter, if, as those who reject the Dogma say, a person can be saved outside of the Church? Why would He teach us : " He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned." Mark 16:16 ? Either he is God and we better listen and believe or he was a crazy man. It should be obvious to see that belief in salvation outside of Christ and His Church is not only heresy but it rejects the Divinity of Christ!
It is easy to prove the Lord gave us this doctrine, the Apostles taught this doctrine, preached by the Fathers and has always been believed by the faithful. In fact, this dogma has reached the highest teaching authority of the Church, it has been defined. Therefore, no one, not even the Pope can change or water down this dogma as it comes from God Himself. The following are the three definitions. Remember a definition is infallible and therefore ALL CATHOLICS are bound to believe, or else forfeit there own salvation.

" There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all is saved." ."
(Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215 A.D.

" We declare,say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

(Pope Boniface VIII, the Papal Bull " Unam Sanctum", 1302 A.D.)

" The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatic’s, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her. and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgiving, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian solder. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, not even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

( Pope Eugene IV, the Papal Bull " Cantate Domino", 1441 A.D.)**

One more question why are there so many different baptist denominations who teach differing things. Did not Jesus say that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Jesus instituted one Church. Luther, Calvin, Zwinglie and a few others disected Him.

Baptists are, by definition, bound by the Baptist Distinctives, a non-authoritative creed that codifies Baptist teachings.

We agree on the essentials. Those non-essentials that we may disagree over, the Bible tells us that we have the liberty to disagree on.

 

[BlackKnight]

12volt_man:

Funny, I was just told in another thread that Protestants (and I am assuming that this includes Baptists, too) cannot be saved. Not only that we aren’t saved, but that we cannot

be saved.

Marilana I think is the girl’s name. She was quite emphatic that we are going to Hell.

As opposed to the Bible, which teaches that we are saved by faith in Christ.

No, living a good life will not save you.

Let me make this clear: I soundly reject Roman Catholicism, it’s teachings, it’s rituals, it’s pope, all with the full knowledge of what Catholics believe that this means.

I am still saved.How in the world can you reject something that you have so little real knowledge of? If you are so smart and supposedly know Catholic teaching so well that you can willfully reject those teachings how could you assert that the church teaches things that it in fact does not.

So which does the Catholic Church really teach? Are you condemned for being a non-Catholic Christian or not? What precisely does that church teach about this?

Blackie

 

[12volt_man]

BlackKnight:

How in the world can you reject something that you have so little real knowledge of?

We’re not talking about something that I have “little real knowledge of”, we’re talking about Roman Catholicism.

If you are so smart and supposedly know Catholic teaching so well that you can willfully reject those teachings how could you assert that the church teaches things that it in fact does not.

I haven’t. Each of the things I’ve listed are things taught by the Roman Catholic church.

So which does the Catholic Church really teach? Are you condemned for being a non-Catholic Christian or not? What precisely does that church teach about this?

What do the popes say in the sources I cited above?

What does Marilana say?

Blackie

 

[jimmy]

Both sides are wrong. The objective rule is that ‘outside the Church there is no salvation’. Christ created one Church and to be a member of the Church is to participate in the salvation of Christ. There is no salvation apart from the Church as several popes and saints have said. But subjectively it is possible for them to recieve salvation because of invincible ignorance. The Catechism of Trent and The Catechism of Pius X deal with this. So does the new Catechism and so does the VII council. But it is imperative that all become Catholic. We do not know of anyone who is saved who is not a professed Catholic. We can not know about their salvation. The only thing that we know is that invincible ignorance can diminish culpability but we can not say anyone outside the Church is saved even though it is subjectively possible.

 

[jimmy]

12volt_man:

We’re not talking about something that I have “little real knowledge of”, we’re talking about Roman Catholicism.

I haven’t. Each of the things I’ve listed are things taught by the Roman Catholic church.

What do the popes say in the sources I cited above?

What does Marilana say?

Blackie

You need to get rid of your self righteous attitude and realize that you do not know everything. Protestantism is the spawn of Catholicism. If Catholicism is false so is protestantism.

I would gaurantee that you know little to nothing about Catholicism. You probably have learned all you know from people like James White.

 

[12volt_man]

jimmy:

Both sides are wrong. The objective rule is that ‘outside the Church there is no salvation’. Christ created one Church and to be a member of the Church is to participate in the salvation of Christ. There is no salvation apart from the Church as several popes and saints have said. But subjectively it is possible for them to recieve salvation because of invincible ignorance. The Catechism of Trent and The Catechism of Pius X deal with this. So does the new Catechism and so does the VII council. But it is imperative that all become Catholic. We do not know of anyone who is saved who is not a professed Catholic. We can not know about their salvation. The only thing that we know is that invincible ignorance can diminish culpability but we can not say anyone outside the Church is saved even though it is subjectively possible.

But those of us who are depending on the finished work of Christ for our salvation and not Roman Catholic rituals are not saved.

 

[12volt_man]

jimmy:

I would gaurantee that you know little to nothing about Catholicism.

Unfortunately, each of the claims I have made about Roman Catholicism are true.

You probably have learned all you know from people like James White.

No. I have a couple of his albums, but I’ve never heard him say anything about Roman Catholicism. I don’t know what his opinion is about it one way or the other.

 

[jimmy]

12volt_man:

But those of us who are depending on the finished work of Christ for our salvation and not Roman Catholic rituals are not saved.

This one line of yours shows complete ignorance of the Catholic Church and of the bible and of what the sacrifice of Christ is.

Please read the Catechism to learn what the real Catholic teaching is rather than what the protestants believe it is. ‘Roman Catholic rituals’ are what Christ established. Christ established the Eucharistic meal which is celebrated each Sunday. It is in all four gospels. It is in Corinthians. The early Christians all believed that this ‘Roman Catholic ritual’ was established by Christ.

Christs work is finished, of course, but this does not imply that we are tnot to participate in our salvation. In the mass God makes the sacrifice of Christ present to all Christians. It is an eternal sacrifice that all Christians participate in by going to Mass and recieving the Eucharist. Christ’s work is finished, but it was an eternal work. In the Mass we are participating in an eternal event, the heavenly worship of God and the sacrifice of Christ. The eternalness of Christs sacrifice can be seen in Revelation where it shows the lamb standing as if slain.

 

[jimmy]

12volt_man:

Unfortunately, each of the claims I have made about Roman Catholicism are true.

No. I have a couple of his albums, but I’ve never heard him say anything about Roman Catholicism. I don’t know what his opinion is about it one way or the other.

hahaha, the claims you have made are deceptions. They take one side of the Catholic teaching and present it as the entire teaching.

 

[12volt_man]

jimmy:

Please read the Catechism to learn what the real Catholic teaching is rather than what the protestants believe it is.

You mean the priests lied to me?

‘Roman Catholic rituals’ are what Christ established.

No, He didn’t. Roman Catholic rituals contradict Christ’s teachings.

Christ established the Eucharistic meal which is celebrated each Sunday. It is in all four gospels. It is in Corinthians. The early Christians all believed that this ‘Roman Catholic ritual’ was established by Christ.

Sure it is.

It is an eternal sacrifice that all Christians participate in by going to Mass and recieving the Eucharist.

If it’s an eternal sacrifice, then why does the Bible say that it was “once and for all”?