Are Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox the same?

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dje101 said:
Hello,

I think this is a pretty simple question and just need the clarification.

Thanks
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In theology, traditions, liturgy ect the Eastern Catholic Churches should be practically the same as their Eastern Orthodox counterparts with one major difference: they are in Communion with the Bishop of Rome with acceptance of all Catholic Doctrine and dogma as defined through the teaching of the Magisterium and the 21 Ecumenical Councils. however different theological language will be employed, so it can make sense within their own tradition, for example Purgatory as the Latin-Church expresses it doesn’t quite fit into Orthodox Theology so they have their own way of expressing this doctrine as to make it fit within their own Theological Tradition (non-Scholastic)
dje101 said:
Sweet. So when people refer to “the Eastern Church”, they are generally referring to the Eastern Catholics?
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Depends on context, if they are referring to the Church Universal then the Eastern Church can refer to both the Eastern Catholic Churches & the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox etc as we hope and pray that they become one and the same (with all 5 ancient Patriarchates returning to communion with each other). However if they are talking about the Catholic Church as it is at the moment (that is East and West in Schism) then the ‘Eastern Church’ would refer to the Eastern Catholic Churches solely.

everything becomes a bit messy when we start speaking semantics :o
 
THE_ENCORE said:
No there is many differences, we accept almost all Latin dogmas, we have the Catholic interpretation on original sin and the immaculate conception, we don’t have a crazy toll house theory and we believe in the purgatory. We have mortal and venial sins(unlike the Orthodox).

Eastern Catholics like the Orthodox don’t have Eucharist Adoration, we deny the Filoque. we Have the exact same liturgies as the Orthodox, Are communion is not just the body but the blood and body(you have no choice to just receive the body) and it is leavened(like orthodox, basically means there is yeast and it rises) we also cross our selfs the eastern way(Forhead, abs, right shoulder, Left shoulder) and cross our selfs more often(Every time you here the words “Father son and holy spirit” and in general we are Less “protestantinzed” a word I just made, generally we feel very traditional in our liturgy unlike some mordernized protestant feeling latin rite liturgies.
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I don’t think Eastern Catholics as a whole deny the Filioque, as in deny its orthodoxy. I hope that was just a mistament. You don’t use it liturgically, sticking to the older version of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed and, perhaps, reject the unique meaning the phrase would have in Greek, but not in Latin and other Western languages.
 
Cavaradossi said:
I know some Eastern Catholics who believe in the “crazy toll house theory” and many Orthodox who do not. It is definitely not dogmatic within Orthodoxy.
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I’ve never heard of this. Can you explain it please?
 
dje101 said:
“In the Latin Rite, Priests aren’t allow to get married. In the Eastern Churches, they are.”
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Priests are not allowed to marry in the Eastern Churches. They must be married before they are ordained. Thus, priests can be married, but cannot get married.

Further, there are limitations on married preisthood within Eparchies of Eastern Catholic Churches outside their original canonical territories.
 
Sorry to steal this post but I have a elementary question.

Isn’t the pope a bishop like any other bishop but at the same time he is similar to a husband that he doesn’t “rule” the household(church) but he more or less “approves/affirms” decisions made on faith and morals; decisions that, as a collective, bishops from all over decide as brothers?
 
dje101 said:
I’ve never heard of this. Can you explain it please?
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Crazy toll house theory. I believe it’s a reference to purgatory. Western Catholics have said that purgatory is a cleansing place/state of being where you go to be cleansed before you enter into the absolute cleanliness of heaven. Some have taught that the more sin you commit throughout your life, the longer your cleanse time will be.

Help me out someone lol
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Priests are not allowed to marry in the Eastern Churches. They must be married before they are ordained. Thus, priests can be married, but cannot get married.

Further, there are limitations on married preisthood within Eparchies of Eastern Catholic Churches outside their original canonical territories.
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And even this is not universal. Several Eastern Catholic Churches, including the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church which is the second largest Eastern Catholic Church, do not ordain married men to the priesthood even within their original canonical territories.
 
PeterJohn said:
Crazy toll house theory. I believe it’s a reference to purgatory. Western Catholics have said that purgatory is a cleansing place/state of being where you go to be cleansed before you enter into the absolute cleanliness of heaven. Some have taught that the more sin you commit throughout your life, the longer your cleanse time will be.

Help me out someone lol
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The toll-house theory is sometimes presented as a nice Eastern expression of what Western Catholics mean by Purgatory, viewing the process more as a journey than a firey purification. However, I think some Orthodox writers have described the toll-houses in more detail than many Christians, Catholic or Orthodox, tend to think has been revealed by God about the subject. Also there’s the claim that it’s actually historically a borrowing from old Gnostic beliefs.
 
PeterJohn said:
Isn’t the pope a bishop like any other bishop but at the same time he is similar to a husband that he doesn’t “rule” the household(church) but he more or less “approves/affirms” decisions made on faith and morals; decisions that, as a collective, bishops from all over decide as brothers?
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Yes, but he also can act alone in such matters.
 
dje101 said:
“In the Latin Rite, Priests aren’t allow to get married. In the Eastern Churches, they are.”
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As already pointed out, that statement is problematic inasmuch as post-ordination marriage isn’t allowed.

But the part that’s relevant to this discussion (“In the Eastern Churches …”) isn’t anything strange or mysterious: Eastern Catholic Churches are Eastern Churches, and Eastern Orthodox Churches are Eastern Churches. They’re both Eastern. Why read any more into it than that?
 
Peter_J said:
As already pointed out, that statement is problematic inasmuch as post-ordination marriage isn’t allowed.

But the part that’s relevant to this discussion (“In the Eastern Churches …”) isn’t anything strange or mysterious: Eastern Catholic Churches are Eastern Churches, and Eastern Orthodox Churches are Eastern Churches. They’re both Eastern. Why read any more into it than that?
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Sometimes one runs into statements about “the Eastern Church” (singular). This is an old-fashioned way that Western Catholics used to commonly speak of all the Eastern Catholic Churches put together, and it still pops up now and then, just like the old habit of calling Churches “Rites” also still pops up sometimes.
 
PeterJohn said:
Alone? I’m not realy “well read” on these detailed matters of papal jurisdiction.
Could you please cite a example of a time and I will look it up? Thank you 🙂
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PJ - not to be evasive, but this is an unduly complex subject at times.

The Pope may speak infallibly ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals, as formally defined in 1870 in Pastor Aeternus.

The instances where Popes have made dogmatic declarations in this manner are rare, and there are several instances where debate continues as to whether or not certain teachings were infallibly declared (e.g. Blessed JPII’s declaration on the nature of the priesthood in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis).

Generally there is agreement (confirmed by the Magesterium) that both Pope Pius IX’s 1854 definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary and Pope Pius XII’s 1950 definition of the dogma of the Assumption of Mary are instances of infallible papal declarations.
 
Peter_J said:
As already pointed out, that statement is problematic inasmuch as post-ordination marriage isn’t allowed.

But the part that’s relevant to this discussion (“In the Eastern Churches …”) isn’t anything strange or mysterious: Eastern Catholic Churches are Eastern Churches, and Eastern Orthodox Churches are Eastern Churches. They’re both Eastern. Why read any more into it than that?
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Because I like to know exactly people are talking about so if I happen to be discussing it with someone, then I can at least speak with a degree of confidence even if it doesn’t matter to the other individual.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
PJ - not to be evasive, but this is an unduly complex subject at times.

The Pope may speak infallibly ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals, as formally defined in 1870 in Pastor Aeternus.

The instances where Popes have made dogmatic declarations in this manner are rare, and there are several instances where debate continues as to whether or not certain teachings were infallibly declared (e.g. Blessed JPII’s declaration on the nature of the priesthood in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis).

Generally there is agreement (confirmed by the Magesterium) that both Pope Pius IX’s 1854 definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary and Pope Pius XII’s 1950 definition of the dogma of the Assumption of Mary are instances of infallible papal declarations.
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Thank you much! I kinda see. Lol.
 
PeterJohn said:
Crazy toll house theory. I believe it’s a reference to purgatory. Western Catholics have said that purgatory is a cleansing place/state of being where you go to be cleansed before you enter into the absolute cleanliness of heaven. Some have taught that the more sin you commit throughout your life, the longer your cleanse time will be.

Help me out someone lol
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Well the Pope should have Primacy among the bishops, not primacy over them.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Well the Pope should have Primacy among the bishops, not primacy over them.
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Just an idea but…

Could the bishop of Rome, obviously with authority to some degree, be in a position now to have incured a peerless type of authority because the 4 other important bishops whom would have been the closest to his peers from Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople are not all unified with Rome? This might be a dumb question. I am not challenging anything here. I am not schooled under this idea. I am simply searching.
 
PeterJohn said:
Just an idea but…

Could the bishop of Rome, obviously with authority to some degree, be in a position now to have incured a peerless type of authority because the 4 other important bishops whom would have been the closest to his peers from Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople are not all unified with Rome? This might be a dumb question. I am not challenging anything here. I am not schooled under this idea. I am simply searching.
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I don’t quite understand. Do you mind rephrasing the question? What is a “peerless type of authority”? Do you mean that his authority is unmatched by any peer, because he is separated from said peers? :confused:
 
dje101 said:
Originally Posted by Peter J
As already pointed out, that statement is problematic inasmuch as post-ordination marriage isn’t allowed.
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Alright, :o that’s fair enough. :cool:

I guess what I should have asked is, How can we read any more into it than the fact that they are both Eastern? Just consider, if someone says “X and Y are both American” we can’t infer that X and Y are the same, but only that they are both American.
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