Are Evangelical Christians Warmongers?

[JustaServant]

This article is popping up on different sites, I thought it might make an interesting topic here. Keep in mind this guy is fundamentalist himself.
But perhaps one eye is beginning to open up:

I’ve been an evangelical Christian since I was a child. I’ve been in the Gospel ministry all of my adult life. I attended two evangelical Christian colleges, received honorary degrees from two others, and taught and preached in several others. I’ve attended many of the largest evangelical pastors’ gatherings and have been privileged to speak at Christian gatherings–large and small–all over America. I have been part of the inner workings of evangelical ministry for nearly 40 years. I think I learned a thing or two about evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity in America. And I’m here to tell you: I don’t like what I see happening these days!

The rest here:

chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=3971

 

[GaryTaylor]

I hear you, though must we not view this on an individual basis? Their is a vast variance in the message’s some which relate directly to personal gain or neglect other very true teachings.

I see the CC making a great effort in areas of on-line and TV is areas such as EWTN or the Vatican On-Line effort. The laity I would think needs a more concentrated effort IMHO.

Peace

 

[CompSciGuy]

This article is popping up on different sites, I thought it might make an interesting topic here. Keep in mind this guy is fundamentalist himself.
But perhaps one eye is beginning to open up:

The rest here:

chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=3971

I think it has less to do with fundamentalism and more to do with American ultra-conservatism, both of which often go hand in hand, more or less by the coincidence that the United States is a Protestant nation. So it’s more of a trend, fundamentalist Protestants tend to be pro-war, and have very little sympathy for the poor/illegal immigrants, homosexuals, etc. because most fundamentalist Protestants tend to be American ultra-conservatives and vice versa.

 

[themeginthemoon]

I think it has less to do with fundamentalism and more to do with American ultra-conservatism, both of which often go hand in hand, more or less by the coincidence that the United States is a Protestant nation. So it’s more of a trend, fundamentalist Protestants tend to be pro-war, and have very little sympathy for the poor/illegal immigrants, homosexuals, etc. because most fundamentalist Protestants tend to be American ultra-conservatives and vice versa.

I have to agree Most evangelical Christians I know are very very hateful when it comes to things they are afraid of. I wish I had not observed this, as it has doubtless clouded my judgement, but it is what I have seen time and time again. I live in the deep South, so it’s particularly ugly here at times. There is so much nastiness abounding… racist, biased, and the list goes on. The “N” word is dropped constantly, which makes my blood boil. Most people around here refer to citizens from Iraq or the middle east in general “sand n*****s”. It breaks my heart, because these are the people who go to church every Sunday and can recite the entire bible to you. I don’t understand why they think God is ok with their hatred and cruelty. It’s an ultra-conservative thing, as you mentioned in the above quote.

 

[GEddie]

I think it has less to do with fundamentalism and more to do with American ultra-conservatism, both of which often go hand in hand, more or less by the coincidence that the United States is a Protestant nation. So it’s more of a trend, fundamentalist Protestants tend to be pro-war, and have very little sympathy for the poor/illegal immigrants, homosexuals, etc. because most fundamentalist Protestants tend to be American ultra-conservatives and vice versa.

In all fairness, the Bible itself is harsh on homosexuality (both OT and NT) and so if oneis a fundamentalist, it’s very hard not to be oneself. Fundamentalist take pride in following the letter of the law when it comes to scripture, hence also their enthusiasm for the death penalty, etc.

ICXC NIKA

 

[anp1215]

I have to agree Most evangelical Christians I know are very very hateful when it comes to things they are afraid of. I wish I had not observed this, as it has doubtless clouded my judgement, but it is what I have seen time and time again. I live in the deep South, so it’s particularly ugly here at times. There is so much nastiness abounding… racist, biased, and the list goes on. The “N” word is dropped constantly, which makes my blood boil. Most people around here refer to citizens from Iraq or the middle east in general “sand n*****s”. It breaks my heart, because these are the people who go to church every Sunday and can recite the entire bible to you. I don’t understand why they think God is ok with their hatred and cruelty. It’s an ultra-conservative thing, as you mentioned in the above quote.

I agree as well. Even though I don’t live in the “deep” south, I still have a very, for lack of a better word, red neck-ish family that would not be out of place in the deep south. Most of my family (and I’m referring to my mom’s side) is Pentecostal or evangelical, and have very inconsistent values.

Right now my cousin (and best friend) is interested in a black man and they are speaking about a relationship. (Interestingly enough, he lives in South Carolina, they met at the missionary training program they both attended) so they only talk on the phone, but are discussing their relationship. I know that, as Christians, they are looking for courtship and marriage, not just casual dating. Oh my goodness, you would think she wanted to marry Adolph Hitler. I try to tell my mom that it is totally ridiculous to care so much, and that he is a really nice Christian guy that she met at MISSIONARY TRAINING, not a thug she met on the street corner, so why does it matter what color his skin is? Her answer: “It just does.”

So much close mindedness and stubbornness. And yes, this extends to other areas, such as being war mongers and not caring about immigrants. It is truly inconsistent with the Gospel, but they just don’t see it at all. In these respects, “liberal” churches such as the Episcopals or ELCA are light years ahead of them.

 

[anp1215]

Oh and I forgot another big one-PRO death penalty. And that’s a big, foaming at the mouth, fervent, PRO.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

Two observations:

1. I don’t think you can fairly ask, “Are Evangelical Christians __________?” That’s because there is such a wide variance in their beliefs. While one Evangelical church may support good environmental stewardship, economic justice and peace. The church next door may preach the exact opposite. Neither group is accountable to the other, and neither congregation will acknowledge the authority of anyone outside that particular congregation. So when it all comes right down to it there are as many answers to your question as there are Evangelical denominations/nondenominational congregations.
2. The above notwithstanding, I think one thing that makes Evangelicals seem more reckless–indeed heartless–when it comes to issues concerning the environment, the economy, and peace is what I call their “Me 'n Jesus” theology.

Some see God as their own personal genie in their own personal bottle. In debt? Rub the bottle. Got marital problems? Rub the bottle. Got the stomach flu? Rub the bottle. Want a BMW? Rub the bottle. Buildings in Manhattan been knocked down? Rub the bottle. Rub the bottle just right and God will pop out and fix whatever is wrong. Brown people get killed when you rub your bottle? No sweat. God is on our team, and heathen brown people who starve or get blown to bits really don’t figure into the equation.

Others see their only mission in this world as getting people “saved.” Social justice, environmental concerns and peace all take a back seat to getting people saved. Getting people to accept Jesus as their “personal Lord and Savior” is primary. All other concerns take a back seat. The temporal well being of people is not really all that important except to the extent that giving them food and medicine makes it more likely they will listen to your message and get saved.

Yet others are very much concerned about environmental stewardship, social justice and peace.

It really all depends on which Evangelicals you’re talking about. As a concrete example compare Jimmy Carter, Joel Osteen, John Hagee and Billy Graham. All evangelicals. All radically different in their message, theology and approach to these issues.

Peace,

 

[waxwing]

As compared to the Mainlines and Catholics then I would say they tend to be more eager to go to war/play up the patriotism card etc…But I also think they tend to have loud voices and are willing to use these voices - I think of the last two Republican Debates and the death penalty and health care issues came up, what did you hear from the audience? Cheering, hooting and hollering against the hypothetical guy who didn’t get health insurance. First thing I thought of was, these people must Evangelicals or of that background. I also got a sick feeling in my stomach. I have friends and family within the Evangelical wing of Christianity so I do think their were other Evangelicals who got that same sick, disgusted feeling in the gut at the reaction of the audience. But just like in politics, their are a loud, significant minority who don’t hesitate to spout off on things, but I do think there is a more thoughtful and silent side of the Evangelicals who also find the direction of their brand of Christianity to be going in a distressing direction.

 

[Godith]

I think it has less to do with fundamentalism and more to do with American ultra-conservatism, both of which often go hand in hand, more or less by the coincidence that the United States is a Protestant nation. So it’s more of a trend, fundamentalist Protestants tend to be pro-war, and have very little sympathy for the poor/illegal immigrants, homosexuals, etc. because most fundamentalist Protestants tend to be American ultra-conservatives and vice versa.

I agree. You would find a completely different situation here in the UK, generally, because here politics and religion are not strongly aligned (although Northern Ireland is a notable exception). In America you have the phenomenon of the “religious right”, something that isn’t a feature of politics here. In my own church alone, you will find people from across the political spectrum. Faith informs people’s politics, but it doesn’t dictate it. It’s rare to hear someone say “you are Christian, therefore you must vote for x”. Being pro-war, or pro-death penalty, or pro-government-funded healthcare isn’t really about being evangelical, or Catholic, or Muslim, or whatever. A person’s politics is a separate issue, and is more affected by culture than religion from my observation.

 

[kubark]

I have to agree Most evangelical Christians I know are very very hateful when it comes to things they are afraid of. I wish I had not observed this, as it has doubtless clouded my judgement, but it is what I have seen time and time again. I live in the deep South, so it’s particularly ugly here at times. There is so much nastiness abounding… racist, biased, and the list goes on. The “N” word is dropped constantly, which makes my blood boil. Most people around here refer to citizens from Iraq or the middle east in general “sand n*****s”. It breaks my heart, because these are the people who go to church every Sunday and can recite the entire bible to you. I don’t understand why they think God is ok with their hatred and cruelty. It’s an ultra-conservative thing, as you mentioned in the above quote.

Protestants are confused Catholics. Their religious confusion leads to political confusion especially when it comes to issues involving race and foreign policy. I think it would do them (and all of us) well to remember that things like Race and Class are not the problem. Sin is the Problem. Man is not the enemy. Diabolos is the enemy.

 

[JHow]

I find it odd that so many from a church that actually has a “just war theory” are happy to take a poke at un-named evangelicals. The problem with the orginal article and many of the comments so far is that examples are lacking. Pick an evangelical you think is being war-monger and explain why this is the case, otherwise, you posts look like “bashing”.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

I find it odd that so many from a church that actually has a “just war theory” are happy to take a poke at un-named evangelicals. The problem with the orginal article and many of the comments so far is that examples are lacking. Pick an evangelical you think is being war-monger and explain why this is the case, otherwise, you posts look like “bashing”.

But picking on unnamed Evangelicals who aren’t here to defend themselves is soooooooooo much fun.

Peace,

 

[MarkBrown]

This article is popping up on different sites, I thought it might make an interesting topic here. Keep in mind this guy is fundamentalist himself.
But perhaps one eye is beginning to open up:

The rest here:

chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=3971

Chuck Baldwin, another product from Pensacola, Florida. I am surprised at the number of threads, another one being about a young rabid calvinists I worked with and tried to mentor years ago, appearing here about people I personally know.

Chuck Baldwin left Pensacola a few years ago to head out to I believe Montana. He is preparing for the over throw of the USA or for the beginning of concentration camps as he has routinuely spoke about being set up by homeland security. From what I can gather is he follows a Rushdonny type societal movement. Though Baldwin is very much opposed to Calvinism and Rushdonny was a calvinist. (Most calvinist do not follow this model either, so no piling on.) When he left, he uprooted not only his family, but all of his grown childrens families and businesses. He liked himself to Abram heading to the promise land lead by God.

Baldwin is also apposed to evangelicals, republicans, democrats, catholics, non-catholics (he pastors non-denom churches he founds and controls), very much into American exceptionalism, isolationist…He has ran for President and Vice-President of the USA on the Constitution party ticket twice, at least. As I have been told, not witnessed, told by a member of the congregation, he has preached many times while wearing a pistol. The gentleman who told me this thought it was a selling point for the congregation.

I use to read and was a subscriber to his blog for a period of time. Started back when Clinton was in his first term. He disliked Clinton, Gore, Bush and Obama. See a pattern here. He only submits to what he thinks is legit authority from his own narrow understanding of scripture. I stopped following his blog as his disgreements with President Bush approached the silly factor. The few I have seen about Obama…make the ones on Bush seem reasonable.

Are Evangelicals warmongers. No. Patriotic…Yes. Evangelicals, like Catholics would be very happy if there was not a need for the military, police etc. If we all followed the teachings of God, especially as related to us by Christ.

Baldwin is on the fringe of protestantism and has a very small but vocal following. I also notice he talks about evangelical christians promoting wars without naming names, denominations. Typical Chuck.

Mark

 

[MarkBrown]

I have to agree Most evangelical Christians I know are very very hateful when it comes to things they are afraid of. I wish I had not observed this, as it has doubtless clouded my judgement, but it is what I have seen time and time again. I live in the deep South, so it’s particularly ugly here at times. There is so much nastiness abounding… racist, biased, and the list goes on. The “N” word is dropped constantly, which makes my blood boil. Most people around here refer to citizens from Iraq or the middle east in general “sand n*****s”. It breaks my heart, because these are the people who go to church every Sunday and can recite the entire bible to you. I don’t understand why they think God is ok with their hatred and cruelty. It’s an ultra-conservative thing, as you mentioned in the above quote.

Sadly, I have seen this not only in the south but in other parts of the country. Even in other countries where, such as on Okinawa in the 80’s the little black sambo with a line through it was used to let blacks know they were not allowed in certain places.

I have seen it in the Church. In Mobile, Alabama in the early 80’s a young black man named Michael (forgot his last name sure google will help) was lynched by the Klan. The men were caught…not your typical fundie rednecks. According to the Archbishop of Mobile, at the time Lipscom, they were CATHOLIC!. The Archbishop excommunicated them as they would not repent nor leave the Klan. This is from a talk I attended with the now retired ArchBishopin 2009 in Mobile about a discussion onthe Ordinariate.

And I have heard the laity make all types of negative comments on priests from other countries, such as Asia, Africa. It is sadly a product of our fallen nature.

We must resist the temptation to through rocks, for we are not without sin.

Mark

 

[ltwin]

So much close mindedness and stubbornness. And yes, this extends to other areas, such as being war mongers and not caring about immigrants. It is truly inconsistent with the Gospel, but they just don’t see it at all. In these respects, “liberal” churches such as the Episcopals or ELCA are light years ahead of them.

Liberal churches like the Episcopal do tend to wear the “inclusive” label more openly than do evangelical churches. However, the problem is that those liberal churches (at least where I’m from) are nearly empty, nearly retirement homes, and lily white. In my experience its the non-denominational churches that tend to be more accepting of interracial couples and less desirables in society like the ex-convicts. We due tend to be overly patriotic in my opinion though.

 

[MarkBrown]

I agree as well. Even though I don’t live in the “deep” south, I still have a very, for lack of a better word, red neck-ish family that would not be out of place in the deep south. Most of my family (and I’m referring to my mom’s side) is Pentecostal or evangelical, and have very inconsistent values.

Right now my cousin (and best friend) is interested in a black man and they are speaking about a relationship. (Interestingly enough, he lives in South Carolina, they met at the missionary training program they both attended) so they only talk on the phone, but are discussing their relationship. I know that, as Christians, they are looking for courtship and marriage, not just casual dating. Oh my goodness, you would think she wanted to marry Adolph Hitler. I try to tell my mom that it is totally ridiculous to care so much, and that he is a really nice Christian guy that she met at MISSIONARY TRAINING, not a thug she met on the street corner, so why does it matter what color his skin is? Her answer: “It just does.”

So much close mindedness and stubbornness. And yes, this extends to other areas, such as being war mongers and not caring about immigrants. It is truly inconsistent with the Gospel, but they just don’t see it at all. In these respects, “liberal” churches such as the Episcopals or ELCA are light years ahead of them.

I have a friend in a reverse situation. Her black family has nothing to do with them, she married a white guy. Been 20 years now.

Mark

 

[Publisher]

To be quite honest…coming from my perspective…most Christian groups…including Catholics and Evangelicals are “war mongers” at heart…very rarely have I found Catholics or Evangelicals seeking to call our world’s nations to peace WITHOUT the use of violence…Peacemaking takes much longer than out right agression…Peace making is not something we do as a “single” stance against an agressor…it is a way of life…a way of discussing…a way of ordering one’s life…not only politically…but religious…secular…family…cities…each of us must “wage peace” for peace to occur.

Even those of us who are active members of “Historic Peace Churches” do not do enough “waging peace”…

To characterize Evangelicals as a whole as “warmongers”…well…most religious groups fall short following the Prince of Peace…and all to often harsh words at best to out right violence are the first responses to agression…one only has to read some of the posts on this web board to see how far we are from being people of peace…if those of us who claim to follow Christ cannot resolve our differences without name calling…threats of eternal perdition…triumphalism…how can we expect our world to follow our example…well…I guess they are following our example…we truly have become the “leaven of war” instead of “leaven of peace” in our world…we can’t “be at peace” with those of us who call ourselves “Christians”…let alone those who have no such faith profession.

Just my opinion.

 

[MarkBrown]

As compared to the Mainlines and Catholics then I would say they tend to be more eager to go to war/play up the patriotism card etc…But I also think they tend to have loud voices and are willing to use these voices - I think of the last two Republican Debates and the death penalty and health care issues came up, what did you hear from the audience? Cheering, hooting and hollering against the hypothetical guy who didn’t get health insurance. First thing I thought of was, these people must Evangelicals or of that background. I also got a sick feeling in my stomach. I have friends and family within the Evangelical wing of Christianity so I do think their were other Evangelicals who got that same sick, disgusted feeling in the gut at the reaction of the audience. But just like in politics, their are a loud, significant minority who don’t hesitate to spout off on things, but I do think there is a more thoughtful and silent side of the Evangelicals who also find the direction of their brand of Christianity to be going in a distressing direction.

I did not associate them with christianity. I thought they were probably from the opposing party to try and make republicans look bad.

 

[waxwing]

I did not associate them with christianity. I thought they were probably from the opposing party to try and make republicans look bad.

Guess we all have different reactions, mine was yep must those loud Evangelicals/GOP’ers…re the other party making the Republicans look bad…so many ways to go with this…lets just say they don’t need help in this regard.

Care for a cup of tea