Are Family Tree masses useful for dealing with generational sin and curses?

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The following verses appear to imply that later generations are cursed for sins committed by their ancestors. To wit:
I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children unto the third and to the fourth generation. Exodus 34:7

Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18

Assuming this is so, are Family Tree masses useful (and theologically sound) for expunging this generational curse?
 
While this is a popular teaching, the idea of “generational curses” contradicts free will. Christ gave us the Sacraments. With Baptism, all stain of Original Sin and personal sin (if any) is cleansed. Gone.

After Baptism, venial sins are forgiven, mortal sins go to Confession.

There is no way in the Economy of Salvation that you must somehow carry the sin of your Grandpa.

We cannot cherry pick from the OT.
 
This question comes up from time to time.
The answer is “no” if the question is “are there generational curses”? Because this implies that there was somebody out there who cursed your family and actually had the power to make such witchcraft stick.

That being said, some patterns of addiction, abuse, and dysfunctional behaviors do crop up in some families partly because genetic disposition and partly from learning poor choices.
And some families have genetic traits that lead to diseases.

So go ahead and have Masses said for your family tree—we can all use some Masses 🙂
But you will not be lifting a “curse” thereby.
 
I don’t think the OP is assuming a witch places a curse, but rather that the free choices to separate from God made by his ancestors could have negative effects on his familial generation.

RCC teaches that punishment does accompany sin and in fact teaches about “spiritual prison”.

The sacraments don’t eliminate punishment.
 
Exactly. To put it simply, can little grandchild be born with a serious illness because grandpa was a dirty no good horse thief, or something like that.
 
I don’t disagree with your statement.

But I don’t think your post answers the OP’s query.
 
bibcat said:
Assuming this is so, are Family Tree masses useful (and theologically sound) for expunging this generational curse?
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This is the query.

My response is that I have not been presented with nor discovered any evidence in Church Doctrine that any such thing exists, so, I cannot assume “this is so”. To do so would violate the teaching on Free Will and Personal Sin as taught by the Church.
 
So you don’t know the answer to the original question because you haven’t discovered one.

Same here.
 
Not exactly. The burden of proof sits with those claiming that “generational sins/curses” are part of Catholic Doctrine. Until those proffering the existence of such doctrine can present evidence, we would be wise to ignore these claims.
 
bibcat said:
I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children unto the third and to the fourth generation. Exodus 34:7

Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18
Click to expand...
Can we ignore this:

I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children unto the third and to the fourth generation. Exodus 34:7

Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18
 
bibcat said:
The following verses appear to imply that later generations are cursed for sins committed by their ancestors. To wit:
I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children unto the third and to the fourth generation. Exodus 34:7

Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18

Assuming this is so, are Family Tree masses useful (and theologically sound) for expunging this generational curse?
Click to expand...
“Healing of the family tree” was a popular Mass intention in the Philippines some years ago, to the point that a priest commented, “that must be some really sick tree.”

It was his way of pretty much saying, “no such thing, knock it off.”
 
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Exodus 25:5 first leaves out an important part of the verse " For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their ancestors’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation*;6but showing love down to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Next we read the footnotes:
  • [20:5] Jealous: demanding exclusive allegiance. Inflicting punishment…the third and fourth generation: the intended emphasis is on God’s mercy by the contrast between punishment and mercy (“to the thousandth generation”—v. 6). Other Old Testament texts repudiate the idea of punishment devolving on later generations (cf. Dt 24:16; Jer 31:29–30; Ez 18:2–4). Yet it is known that later generations may suffer the punishing effects of sins of earlier generations, but not the guilt.
Here is a link to the Catholic Bible for the re-statements of this verse so you can read the notes, etc.

bible.usccb.org

Deuteronomy, CHAPTER 5

Daily Bible Readings, Podcast Audio and Videos and Prayers brought to you by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
bible.usccb.org bible.usccb.org

bible.usccb.org

Exodus, CHAPTER 34

Daily Bible Readings, Podcast Audio and Videos and Prayers brought to you by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
bible.usccb.org bible.usccb.org

bible.usccb.org

Deuteronomy, CHAPTER 5

Daily Bible Readings, Podcast Audio and Videos and Prayers brought to you by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
bible.usccb.org bible.usccb.org

Numbers also links back to the original Exodus verse.

As has been said above, the effects of sin (such as inherited tendency to alcoholism) but not the guilt.
 
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Most excellent post.

So, sin affects others, including later generations.
 
Sins might effect others, if I go gamble away the family home my grandkids cannot inherit it.

Having a “generational Mass” will not bring back the family home, nor will it cause a change in inherited genes (God could work a miracle and heal someone of a genetic illness, but, that is extremely rare).
 
I was just using that as an example. Many of us have an ancestor or ancestors 2 3 or 4 generations ago that led dissolute and sinful lives, and broke any number of commandments in the process. Scripture (at lesast the OT) strongly implies that innocent descendants will be punished for these transgressions. Of course, sceptics use this as “proof” that the Almighty is unjust.
 
People are not reading the Bible very carefully, if their first thought on the subject is not what Jesus said about the man born blind.

John 9:2-4–

And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who has sinned so that this man was born blind? This man, or his parents?”

Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents. For he was born blind so that the works of God should be made manifest in him.”

John 9:39 –

And Jesus said, “I am come into this world for judgment, so that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.”

The only important generational punishment of sin is the punishment on Adam and Eve. Anything else, and you are either talking temporal consequences (like war as a direct human result of bad acts) or God changing the rules to fix a problem and teach something (like the legal consequences incurred by Israel for cheating on God - the “covenant curses” that Jesus took on Himself).

If people want to pray for the wicked dead, or do reparations for them, fine!

Just pray for them and do reparations, hoping they repented and hit Purgatory instead of Hell. Offer Masses for their souls, like Catholics. But stop blaming your own unrelated crosses on them.

Stop blinding yourself. Get that plank out of your own eye, instead of worrying about the sins of your ancestors.

Allow God to show His glory through the crosses He sends you. Become a saint. Let God’s works become manifest in you.
 
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bibcat . . .
. . . . are Family Tree masses useful (and theologically sound) for expunging this generational curse?
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Yes. Having Masses said for your family is very useful.

There are EFFECTS from sin.

Sin effects the whole world in a bad way (just like good works done in grace effect the whole world in a good way).

Familial effects can be particularly strong (in a good sense or a bad sense) within the family matrix, even generationally.

Eventually someone will bring up Ezekiel 18 to you to refute this.

But Ezekiel 18 merely shows that there is no accountability from sins of parents at their judgment.

Ezekiel 18 also shows that there is no advantage at your judgment from the righteousness of parents.

Ezekiel 18 does NOT show (nor does John 9:1-3) that there are no EFFECTS from sins or righteousness of your parents.

The EFFECTS of our sins (not just on our family but on the whole world) will be something we actually “see” at the final judgment.
ROMAN CATECHISM Reasons For General Judgment

It is necessary to show why, besides the particular judgment of each individual, a general one should also be passed upon all men.

Those who depart this life sometimes leave behind them children who imitate their conduct, dependents, followers and others who admire and advocate their example, language and actions. Now by all these circumstances the rewards or punishments of the dead must needs be increased, since the good or bad influence of example, affecting as it does the conduct of many, is to terminate only with the end of the world. Justice demands that in order to form a proper estimate of all these good or bad actions and words a thorough investigation should be made. This, however, could not be without a general judgment of all men.

Moreover, as the character of the virtuous frequently suffers from misrepresentation, while that of the wicked obtains the commendation of virtue, the justice of God demands that the former recover, in the public assembly and judgment of all men, the good name of which they had been unjustly deprived before men.
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God can mitigate the effects of your sins or your ancestors sins. But you need to ask.

The Mass is a great way to “ask”.

Hope this helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
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has anyone heard of Fr John Hampsch? He does family tree healing Masses. So the question is, is this all hokey, based from your replies?
 
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