Are female humans barred from the sanctuary during the Traditional Latin Mass?

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And the Slavic practice of adding warm water to the Precious Blood for the fervor of our prayers? It comes from the far north with drafty, unheard churches cold enough to freeze wine in a cup during winter . . . I have no idea how th Melkites picked it up, given their climate (where adding ice could have been a parallel development . . .)
There is somewhat the same principle of some people adding salt to holy water. It was so it wouldn’t freeze in winter… It still didn’t stop me from almost breaking my fingers at a holy water font at a shrine in Bavaria in early March.
 
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Any yet there were packs of mongrels roaming the streets if Rome and Constantinople. There wasn’t someone at the entrance to a church to keep out strays all day every day.

“No plausible basis in fact”… It still happens today in churches which are not fully sealed. In the Philippines most churches who don’t have altar rails and aren’t totally sealed have to fully enclose the church in metal grating to keep dogs out.
 
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There wasn’t someone at the entrance to a church to keep out strays all day every day.
Actually, there were. They were called porters, and they not only kept out stray dogs, but anyone who was not a baptized Christian. The role developed into a grade of minor cleric that existed right up to 1983.
 
Porter was a minor clerical order. It’s primary use was at masses. A Porter was not required to be at the church all day, every day.
 
only the west abolished those minor orders; we still have them in the East.

hawk
 
Porter was a minor clerical order. It’s primary use was at masses. A Porter was not required to be at the church all day, every day.
Porters started out as, basically, security guards. And yes, they stood by the doors whenever they were open. They later took on a liturgical role.

Also, Constantinople and even Rome at the time were highly civilized metropolises. Sanitation and hygiene were highly advanced. It is unlikely that there were bands of roaming dogs prowling the streets. It’s not the picture I have of either city in the fifth century.
 
Generally only when a Deacon is serving. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a priest call out, “The Doors!”

As for the next line (always used, but properly the deacon’s), I’ve read commentary that at the time when St. John Chrysotom wrote it, “Wisdom! Be attentive!” was closer to “Shut up and listen!” than a calm invitation . . .😱:crazy_face:

I believe he also had the barrier between the men and women put up in his frustration over the, well, amorous behavior during liturgy!

hawk
 
Generally only when a Deacon is serving. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a priest call out, “The Doors!”
All the Divine Liturgies I’ve been to have had a Deacon serving. I’ve never seen one without a Deacon, and wonder how the priests juggles the roles. I’ll have to look into it.
“Wisdom! Be attentive!” was closer to “Shut up and listen!”
I remember commenting to myself the same when I first heard it! 😃
 
Also, Constantinople and even Rome at the time were highly civilized metropolises. Sanitation and hygiene were highly advanced. It is unlikely that there were bands of roaming dogs prowling the streets. It’s not the picture I have of either city in the fifth century.
Yes, Constantinople did have these things, but in Rome it was a very different story during the 5th century. 410 began the decline of the Western Empire, with it’s full collapse in 476. In 410 Rome was sacked by the Visigoths. The initial assaults upon the city heavily damaged the aqueduct system and the city quickly fell. From this point forward, Rome received almost no Imperial support from this point onward as it was more concerned with protecting Ravenna. Instead, the upkeep of the city was shouldered by the Pope’s personal funds. While the Popes tried to keep the city running, they did not have the infrastructure to do so. The damaged aqueducts now led to mass amounts of dysentery and other waterborne illnesses. The population of the city plummeted and large sections were simply abandoned. Rome was sacked again in 455 and the entire Western Empire fell in 476 at which time Odoacer became king of Italy. While he did have a palace on the Palatine hill, he was an Arian and his Capital was at Ravenna, not Rome, thus he did not contribute many resources to the Pope for the restoration of Rome.

In many areas of Rome, apart from the Churches, the city became a ghost town.Thus the packs of animals.
 
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Before the Council of Trent a marriage could be contracted privately and it was considered valid.
 
Someone has mentioned this already , but when I was an altar server in the 1950s ladies were allowed in the sanctuary during their Nuptial Mass .

We used to be told that it was the only time a lady was then allowed in the sanctuary .
 
In many areas of Rome, apart from the Churches, the city became a ghost town.Thus the packs of animals.
Before the sack in 410 (which was rather mild as far as sacks go), Rome still had a population of about 800,000. In the decades falling the sack, it dropped to half a million, still pretty sizable. Under Odacer and Theoderic, life in Rome was quite good. Far from a “fall”, the city actually rebounded a bit. The “ghost town” phase didn’t set in until after the sack of Totila in 546 and the ultimate fall of the city three years later. The breaking of the aqueducts you referred to occurred during this siege.
 
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Generally only when a Deacon is serving. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard a priest call out, “The Doors!”
We have one priest for a whole county and we don´t have an deacon for our church 😉
It works really good, but at feast days we sometimes have a deacon from outside and it´s amazing to see how more understandable the parts of liturgy become when there are enough people to perform.
 
it´s amazing to see how more understandable the parts of liturgy become when there are enough people to perform.
That’s exactly what I mean. It must be quite confusing for the priest to cover all the roles on his own.
 
I believe he also had the barrier between the men and women put up in his frustration over the, well, amorous behavior during liturgy!
I once found one of the funniest historical sources I ever worked with at university. It´s a rule for husbands who want to oficially get rid of their wife´s beaus. They were told to make a petition (three times written! long live bureaucracy! 😃 ) and should include in which situation the man was flirting with the wife, and there were the following options : market, stadion, …and church.
Byzantine history is funny sometimes.
 
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it´s amazing to see how more understandable the parts of liturgy become when there are enough people to perform.
Our priests speaks the priest´s prayers loud for all (many don´t because it takes time) but so we are able to understand better what is actually going on. It helps a little bit.
 
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