Are Hindus pagan?

[Philomath]

I don’t have to learn about Hinduism from you.

Nor do I need to learn it from you. But you cannot make blanket statements for all Hindu’s. You can however say that you personally worship the sun God, or that **some **Hindu’s do. I personally do not.

When people do yoga whether it is stretching or whatever they are basically bowing to the Sun God. The 15 million people or so who do yoga in the US and millions of people worldwide are already worshiping a different image of god, when you take something from someone you need to give a small credit back to them. People want yoga but they don’t want to know its origins.

The Original Teachings of Yoga : From Patanjali Back to Hiranyagarbha

Hiranyagarbha and Vedic Yoga

“Who then was Hiranyagarbha, a human figure or a deity? The name Hiranyagarbha, which means “the gold embryo”, first occurs prominently as a Vedic deity, generally a form of the Sun God. There is a special Sukta or hymn to Hiranyagarbha in the Rig VedaX.121, **which is commonly chanted by Hindus today. **”

Salutations to the Sun ≠ worship of the sun.

The definition of Salutation: an act, phrase, gesture, etc, that serves as a greeting

:takethat: Hindus are indeed pagans, it is the pagan community who have not accepted and respected Hinduism as a part of pagan culture. Don’t preach my religion back to me.

As I stated earlier in this thread you cannot make a blanket statement for nearly 1 billion Hindu’s. Some Hindu’s are indeed “pagan’s”, and some are not.

 

[Latinitas]

I don’t have to learn about Hinduism from you.

When people do yoga whether it is stretching or whatever they are basically bowing to the Sun God. The 15 million people or so who do yoga in the US and millions of people worldwide are already worshiping a different image of god, when you take something from someone you need to give a small credit back to them. People want yoga but they don’t want to know its origins.

The Original Teachings of Yoga : From Patanjali Back to Hiranyagarbha

Hiranyagarbha and Vedic Yoga

“Who then was Hiranyagarbha, a human figure or a deity? The name Hiranyagarbha, which means “the gold embryo”, first occurs prominently as a Vedic deity, generally a form of the Sun God. There is a special Sukta or hymn to Hiranyagarbha in the Rig VedaX.121, **which is commonly chanted by Hindus today. **”

:takethat: Hindus are indeed pagans, it is the pagan community who have not accepted and respected Hinduism as a part of pagan culture. Don’t preach my religion back to me.

Nor do I need to learn it from you. But you cannot make blanket statements for all Hindu’s. You can however say that you personally worship the sun God, or that **some **Hindu’s do. I personally do not.

Salutations to the Sun ≠ worship of the sun.

The definition of Salutation: an act, phrase, gesture, etc, that serves as a greeting

As I stated earlier in this thread you cannot make a blanket statement for nearly 1 billion Hindu’s. Some Hindu’s are indeed “pagan’s”, and some are not.

Please keep the ad hominem insults to private forms of communication.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[Pleroma]

Nor do I need to learn it from you. But you cannot make blanket statements for all Hindu’s. You can however say that you personally worship the sun God, or that **some **Hindu’s do.

There is nothing personal about it, I go by evidence and truth. The proto Indo-Iranian religion started off as sun worship, most modern Hindus don’t know about their own religion and their own scriptures, why should I not make sweeping statements based on evidence and truth while majority of the Hindus are ignorant of their own religion?

Eshhah brahmaa cha vishhnushcha shivah skandah prajaapati. Mahendro dhanadah kaalo yamah somo hyapaam pati. 8

He (Sun God) is Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Skanda, Prajapati. He is also Mahendra, kubera, kala, yama, soma and varuna.

Pitaro vasavah saadhyaa hyashvinau maruto manuh.Vaayurvahnih prajaapraana ritukartaa prabhaakarah. 9

• Adithya Hridayam

He (Sun God) is the pitrs, vasus, sadhyas, aswini devas, maruts, manu, vayu, agni, prana and, being the source of all energy and light, is the maker of all the six seasons.

I personally do not.

Just because you do not worship him it doesn’t change the fact that the Sun God is the supreme deity of Hinduism and it doesn’t change the fact that you are a pagan irrespective of whether you worship the sun god or not. If you are a Hindu by definition you are a Sun worshiper. Whether you like it or not personally or whether you worship him or not is irrelevant.

If you don’t want to associate yourself with paganism then please find yourself an another religion but please don’t come up with your own Hinduism having no basis on tradition or history.

Salutations to the Sun ≠ worship of the sun.

The definition of Salutation: an act, phrase, gesture, etc, that serves as a greeting

Every stretch of yoga is a worship to the Sun God. Modern Christians have to either give up their belief in Christ or give up yoga, you cannot believe in Christ and do yoga at the same time, its blasphemy to their own religion.

As I stated earlier in this thread you cannot make a blanket statement for nearly 1 billion Hindu’s. Some Hindu’s are indeed “pagan’s”, and some are not.

There is no substantial basis for that categorization, its all your personal mindset, all Hindus are pagans irrespective of whether they like it or not.

 

[Philomath]

There is nothing personal about it, I go by evidence and truth. The proto Indo-Iranian religion started off as sun worship, most modern Hindus don’t know about their own religion and their own scriptures, why should I not make sweeping statements based on evidence and truth while majority of the Hindus are ignorant of their own religion?

And your evidence for all this is from Wikipedia?

Eshhah brahmaa cha vishhnushcha shivah skandah prajaapati. Mahendro dhanadah kaalo yamah somo hyapaam pati. 8

He (Sun God) is Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Skanda, Prajapati. He is also Mahendra, kubera, kala, yama, soma and varuna.

Pitaro vasavah saadhyaa hyashvinau maruto manuh.Vaayurvahnih prajaapraana ritukartaa prabhaakarah. 9

• Adithya Hridayam

He (Sun God) is the pitrs, vasus, sadhyas, aswini devas, maruts, manu, vayu, agni, prana and, being the source of all energy and light, is the maker of all the six seasons.

Do these same Vedas not also say this? Also I don’t adhere to Vaishnava scripture so quoting it doesn’t mean much for me.

Atharva 13.4[2]19-20

There is no second God, nor a third, nor is even a fourth spoken of

There is no fifth God or a sixth nor is even a seventh mentioned.

There is no eighth God, nor a ninth. Nothing is spoken about a tenth even

This unique power is in itself. That Lord is only one, the only omnipresent. It is one and the only one.

satyavidya.org/component/content/article/53-vedic-vitamins/126-there-is-only-one-god

Just because you do not worship him it doesn’t change the fact that the Sun God is the supreme deity of Hinduism and it doesn’t change the fact that you are a pagan irrespective of whether you worship the sun god or not. If you are a Hindu by definition you are a Sun worshiper. Whether you like it or not personally or whether you worship him or not is irrelevant.

How can you worship something that you are not in fact worshiping? That doesn’t even make sense. The Sun God may be the supreme God to **some **Hindu’s but once again all Hindu’s do not have the same viewpoint, nor does all Hindu scripture express the same viewpoint.

If you don’t want to associate yourself with paganism then please find yourself an another religion but please don’t come up with your own Hinduism having no basis on tradition or history.

No thank you, I’m personally fine with my religion. I have no problem with the Hindu’s that are “pagan” but to label all of us “pagan” is incorrect and false.

Every stretch of yoga is a worship to the Sun God. Modern Christians have to either give up their belief in Christ or give up yoga, you cannot believe in Christ and do yoga at the same time, its blasphemy to their own religion.

Every stretch of Yoga is not done to worship the Sun God. Idk why you’re bringing up Christianity when it has nothing to do with Yoga.

There is no substantial basis for that categorization, its all your personal mindset, all Hindus are pagans irrespective of whether they like it or not.

I don’t understand how this can be when there are Hindu’s who don’t even believe in God.

 

[Tomdstone]

As I stated earlier in this thread you cannot make a blanket statement for nearly 1 billion Hindu’s. Some Hindu’s are indeed “pagan’s”, and some are not.

Hello Philomath. Thank you for your clarifications. For those of us who know very little about Hinduism, can you recommend one or more readable books or articles which would explain what Hinduism is and what it teaches.
On the question of “paganism,” I would not be too bothered by this type of name calling, since fundamentalist Protestant Christians use this type of rhetoric against Roman Catholics.
Also, do you believe that articles in Wikipedia on Hinduism are inaccurate?

 

[Pleroma]

And your evidence for all this is from Wikipedia?

Oh you want a better source? Its not difficult for someone who is from a historical tradition to dig information about his own religion. I very well know what I am talking here because my claims are backed up with scholarly evidence.

It is the Aryans (or Aryas – Venerable and highly civilized and cultured people known for their learning, wisdom and large heartedness) who discovered this esoteric secret. All those who are now let into this secret can be called Aryas. The obligatory duty of every such Arya is to discover the secrets of Nature and impart those secrets to worthy and deserving people. This is otherwise called the recital of Vedic texts which ought to be pursued through study of the Vedas and teaching of the Vedas. The Aryas were those who eschewed Paratantra (subject to or dependent on another) and won Swantantra (freedom or independence). Such Aryas can Aryanise the whole Universe.

Every living being in this world is verily a Sun worshipper. Some know it, but a large number of beings are unaware of it. Being aware of what one is doing, systematizing it and doing it fully and consciously through Sankalpa is called yoga. Progress is nothing but turning the mind from ayoga to yoga. Vedas declare Surya atma jagataha tasthushascha. It means that the sun is very soul of both the immobile and mobile beings. Since the universe came into existence through the Sun, he is called Aditya. Since all the luster in this universe is his he is called Bhaskara. He is the leading light of the planetary system and fruits such as health, well-being, heartiness and wholeness are due to him are well-known. He is the giver of life and light. The evolution of all created things in the world of human beings is entirely due to the sun. Aryas worshipped him as Savithru because every being needs his permission to issue out of the mother’s womb. Once upon a time the worship of Savithru deva was in vogue in every nook and corner of the world. As divine law declined this Savithru worship decreased. Now it is being performed here and there. In another sense, this Savithru-worship has not been given up at all, and cannot be given up either! For, the support for the breathing process which, takes place every moment is Prana. It is this Agnishoma mandala’s (pleroma of gods) grace and flavour that every living being is kept alive. This is a matter, which can be tested by means of yoga. Agnishoma mandala (pleroma of Gods) is the place of origin or principal place of Purusha (The soul of the Universe, the masculine principle) and Prakrithi (The passive power of creating namely, Nature, the feminine principle).

Savithru deva is lord and master of Agnishoma mandala (pleroma of gods) and He is in the macrocosm as well in the microcosm. Human beings who are not aware of this imagine that it is they and their own mind and intellect that get things to be done through their ten sense organs. How can subordinates (the mind, intellect and sense organs) be independent? Imagining that he is independent, the individual attributes his achievement to his own mind and intellect. This amounts to the state of being enamoured and conceit. But those few who are capable of deep reflection realize that there should be one who inspires or activates the mind and intellect further reflection and contemplation leads such individuals to realize that the Inspirer or Activator is Savithrudeva. It is He and He alone who instil power into the intellect. It is the intellect, which is the centre and source of all activity, physical and mental, etc.

He that is Savithru, has to accord permission for anything born, or anything to be born and issue out of the mother’s womb. This is the law of Nature. All those who are aware of this law should worship Savithru; or rather, have been worshipping Savithru. This worship is ceaselessly going on in the form of breathing. When this “Worship” is going on in the right way the physical body will be in good health. But if anything goes wrong in that worship, disease attacks the physical body. Ayurveda which recognizes this principle calls him who prevents disease or restores good health, Pranacharya(one who is learned in the science of prana). By this Ayurveda has cognised the original form of this worship. This Savithru deva is none other than Aditya. He protects the World in his various forms or manifestations. He is a mass of brilliant luster. Veda looks at Him in two ways. They are Visthrutha (Diffused or spread out form) and Samasthi (total or whole form). This luster of Savithrudeva, which Veda calls Samasthi swaroopa (total or whole form), is there in every living being and provokes the activity of the mind and intellect.

• Devudu, Mahabrahmana.

Devudu Narasimha Shastry. The Glory of Gayathri (Maha Bramhana in Kannada). Translated into English by Prof .N. Nanjunda Sastry. Bangalore: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, 2004. (Original work in Kannada – 1950, Bangalore).

Devudu Narasimha Shastry. Mahadarshana in Kannada (English version not available). Bangalore: Devudu Press.

 

[Pleroma]

Do these same Vedas not also say this? Also I don’t adhere to Vaishnava scripture so quoting it doesn’t mean much for me.

Atharva 13.4[2]19-20

There is no second God, nor a third, nor is even a fourth spoken of

There is no fifth God or a sixth nor is even a seventh mentioned.

There is no eighth God, nor a ninth. Nothing is spoken about a tenth even

This unique power is in itself. That Lord is only one, the only omnipresent. It is one and the only one.

satyavidya.org/component/content/article/53-vedic-vitamins/126-there-is-only-one-god

How is those verses contradictory to what I am saying? BTW read this from a Vaishnava website.

The Sun is also called Surya-Narayana, the Supreme Lord of the Universe.

How can you worship something that you are not in fact worshiping? That doesn’t even make sense. The Sun God may be the supreme God to **some **Hindu’s but once again all Hindu’s do not have the same viewpoint, nor does all Hindu scripture express the same viewpoint.

Read the above passage.

Every stretch of Yoga is not done to worship the Sun God. Idk why you’re bringing up Christianity when it has nothing to do with Yoga.

I am bringing up current issues just to show how much is the relevance and influence of Sun God in Hinduism to this day. He is the master of the Vedas, to ignore him is to demolish the whole of Hinduism.

I don’t understand how this can be when there are Hindu’s who don’t even believe in God.

Only those who believe in the existence of Vedic Gods like Agni, Soma, Indra, Varuna, Yama, Ashvin, Usha, Pushan etc are Hindus in a traditional sense, others are Hindus just for namesake who have got no idea as to what Hinduism is.

 

[Philomath]

Oh you want a better source? Its not difficult for someone who is from a historical tradition to dig information about his own religion. I very well know what I am talking here because my claims are backed up with scholarly evidence.

Yes I wanted a better source and thank you providing one.

How is those verses contradictory to what I am saying? BTW read this from a Vaishnava website.

What is your actual point? Are you trying to say that all Hindu’s worship the Sun? Or are you trying to say that all Hindu’s worship the Sun as an aspect of Brahman?

The Sun is also called Surya-Narayana, the Supreme Lord of the Universe.

Again I’m not a Vaishnava so quoting me Vaishnava texts doesn’t mean much to me. The Vedas can be interpreted to express a number of viewpoints, this being one of them.

I am bringing up current issues just to show how much is the relevance and influence of Sun God in Hinduism to this day. He is the master of the Vedas, to ignore him is to demolish the whole of Hinduism.

The Sun is the master of the the Vedas?

Only those who believe in the existence of Vedic Gods like Agni, Soma, Indra, Varuna, Yama, Ashvin, Usha, Pushan etc are Hindus in a traditional sense, others are Hindus just for namesake who have got no idea as to what Hinduism is.

Well that is your personal definition of what a Hindu is, I can’t argue with that.

 

[Philomath]

Hello Philomath. Thank you for your clarifications.]

No problem

For those of us who know very little about Hinduism, can you recommend one or more readable books or articles which would explain what Hinduism is and what it teaches.

Since Hinduism is really an amalgamation of religious beliefs sharing a center on the Vedas I’d recommend getting to know the different Hindu viewpoints, specifically the main sects. This is a great link for understanding some of the basics.

himalayanacademy.com/readlearn/basics/four-sects

On the question of “paganism,” I would not be too bothered by this type of name calling, since fundamentalist Protestant Christians use this type of rhetoric against Roman Catholics.

I’m not really bothered by the label of “paganism” I’m bothered by the blanket statement lol.

Also, do you believe that articles in Wikipedia on Hinduism are inaccurate?

A few of them that I’ve read have been inaccurate, and since Wikipedia can be edited by pretty much anyone I prefer to use other sources when I can.

 

[Pleroma]

What is your actual point? Are you trying to say that all Hindu’s worship the Sun? Or are you trying to say that all Hindu’s worship the Sun as an aspect of Brahman?

I never said all Hindus worship the Sun God, I said we worship the Sun God. I very well know that not all Hindus worship the Sun God. A division between esoteric Hinduism and exoteric Hinduism is albeit necessary here. Yes psychic Hindus who are blinded by the later puranas are not aware of the Sun God, just like the way psychic Christians are not aware of the pneumatic Christ.

I am not going to say that some Hindus worship the Sun God and some don’t instead I would like to bifurcate the Hindus into three categories namely the hylics (Hindus who do not believe in any gods), the psychics (Hindus who have no idea as to what exists in their own scriptures and who are ignorant of its hidden mysteries and who are indulged only in its outer appearances), the pneumatics (Hindus who worship the esoteric Sun God as the direct manifestation of Brahman). The Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman both are important to us, one cannot exist without the other, this tradition is not to be confused with monotheism or fundamentalism, this is Henotheism or Kathenotheism. The very essence of the Vedas and we engulf all contradictions. We maintain that there is only one God and yet we worship multitude of gods.

Again I’m not a Vaishnava so quoting me Vaishnava texts doesn’t mean much to me. The Vedas can be interpreted to express a number of viewpoints, this being one of them.

Of course but that doesn’t mean all viewpoints are right. Those who are from a oral tradition very well know what is the truth.

“The scriptures are ambiguous and the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition.” (Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:2:1).

The Sun is the master of the the Vedas?

Indeed yes. He was the one who taught the Vedas and the art of Yoga to the whole world. Do you need evidence for this too?

Well that is your personal definition of what a Hindu is, I can’t argue with that.

Its okay, just as Saint Paul advice’s, it is better to treat everyone based on the measure of faith that one possesses.

 

[Vico]

Hi CAF community,

With all charity to Hindus, and prayers, I ask this question:

Are Hindus pagan?

What do you think? The poll will show.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

The dictionary (Collins, others) defines pagan as “not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew”. Since the word Hindu may be inclusive of all people of India, and there are Christians, Muslims, and Jews that are of India, it seems that not all Hindus are pagan.

Etymology of Pagan: circa 1375, from L.L. paganus “pagan,” in classical Latin “villager, rustic, civilian,” from pagus “rural district,” originally “district limited by markers,” thus related to pangere “to fix, fasten,” from PIE base *pag- “to fix”

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

General notice:
Hot Topic for the week of 3/17.
Please remain on topic.

 

[Tzimisce]

Hi CAF community,

With all charity to Hindus, and prayers, I ask this question:

Are Hindus pagan?

What do you think? The poll will show.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

Depends on how you define “pagan”.

Originally the word “Pagani” meant “peasant”. The Christian Romans used it as a vulgar term to refer to anyone who didn’t live in a city.

Today most use the word “pagan” to mean “Satanist”.

When I use the word “Pagan” I’m referring to anyone who is polytheistic.

 

[MysticMansion]

St. Paul said when you speak our faith be bold. Most of the people who call themselves
Catholic seem to be almost apologizing for our faith.

The meaning of Pagan is to believe in more then one God. Hindus have many many God’s so by definition they are Pagan. For those who through no fault of their own know no better they are without any serious sin but for those who know, or aught to know because the opportunity presented itself and was rejected then they are culpable for their sin or paganism.

Please Catholic people grow a backbone. We are members on the one and only true Church from God. It is my opinion that all other faiths were created by the devil and introduced into mankind through anyone who would serve him. All faiths outside of the Catholic church are forms of poison to the soul. That does not mean that the people who through no fault of their own are members are also poison. However much of what they believe and preach may be poison also. It can only be determined when measured against the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Quit apologizing for the greatest gift we have on earth right now the Catholic Church that is Christ among us.

 

[livingwordunity]

Hinduism is pagan and pantheist. It is open to almost any interpretation, and that’s why it’s popular with the New Age relativists. Traditional Hinduism contains two core beliefs called “karma” and “dharma” which is basically a superstitious belief in “fate” or destiny of which one has no control and submitting oneself to that fate. And Hinduism has a lot in common with the newer Wicca religion since Hindus believe in invocations of Hindu “gods” and casting spells.

 

[livingwordunity]

Probably most people would be surprised to know that Hinduism also has a tradition of having temple prostitution. I’m in college, and I learned about this in a class I had last semester on Hinduism.

 

[openmind77]

Probably most people would be surprised to know that Hinduism also has a tradition of having temple prostitution. I’m in college, and I learned about this in a class I had last semester on Hinduism.

There is no tradition of ‘prostitution’. However it is true that temples used to have women servants (called devdasis) who danced and performed during festivals. These women were pretty much at the mercy of the priests who used them as they pleased. This custom has been banned for many decades now. Actually it was mainly these ‘devdasis’ who kept traditional Indian dance and music alive. The abuse of these women was unfortunate

 

[livingwordunity]

There is no tradition of ‘prostitution’. However it is true that temples used to have women servants (called devdasis) who danced and performed during festivals. These women were pretty much at the mercy of the priests who used them as they pleased. This custom has been banned for many decades now. Actually it was mainly these ‘devdasis’ who kept traditional Indian dance and music alive. The abuse of these women was unfortunate.

The way you describe it sounds like they were engaging in prostitution. If they acted as prostitutes in the temple then they were temple prostitutes even if they weren’t called a “temple prostitute.”

 

[openmind77]

The way you describe it sounds like they were engaging in prostitution. If they acted as prostitutes in the temple then they were temple prostitutes even if they weren’t called a “temple prostitute.”

I totally agree with you. For instance, this is not prostitution at all: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1234268.stm, not to speak of other abuse.