Are homosexual acts still wrong provided that the Bible is not inspired?

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thistle said:
So you are telling us you reject the Church teaching on homosexual activity?
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Yes, is that what you’re saying?

One cannot separate what one believes “personally” while still claiming to be a Catholic and following church teachings.
 
Let me take a crack at the original question.

A. Homosexual acts would still be wrong (i.e. sinful), if the Church teaches it as dogma handed down from Jesus through apostolic succession.

B. Homosexual desire would still be a disordered desire from a logical, evolutionary standpoint. If you take religion completely out of it and look at the purpose of sexual attraction it would be for what? Propagation of species, correct? We’ve all had Biology 101, so this seems pretty clear.
 
MarcoPolo said:
So, serious question, why do you remain Catholic?
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I remain a Catholic because I feel I owe the Church my life and loyalty (whether I believe in its teachings or not). If it wasn’t for the Church, its teaching, and their views, I would not be who I am today. Therefore, leaving it would be like me entering Heaven, knowing thousands are still in Hell. 😦 Knowing I couldn’t do anything about it would be Hell to me.

And to answer the question above you:

I don’t reject its teaching on homosexuality, I disagree with it and find it illogical.

Merry Christmas and Ironically Yours.
 
RobertLGarrett said:
Homosexual desire would still be a disordered desire from a logical, evolutionary standpoint. If you take religion completely out of it and look at the purpose of sexual attraction it would be for what? Propagation of species, correct? We’ve all had Biology 101, so this seems pretty clear.
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Just because something doesn’t make sense with thinking about it from a Darwinian perspective doesn’t mean that it is morally wrong.

I think it just comes down to this: Does it cause any harm to anyone for me to kiss another man?

I think there are some situations where this would be harmful. If the other man was sick and I might catch a cold. If the other man was married or in another relationship, it would cause serious harm to that relationship. Other than that, however, I think most people don’t see any harm in it.

But, you might say, just because something isn’t harmful doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s wrong. But think about that further. Can you think of a good example where something might still be wrong but totally harmless? I have trouble. If you can think of a good example, I’d like to hear it.

I suppose it comes down to this: It doesn’t really do any significant harm. So, what’s the big deal? Let people be gay and have their gay relationships. Doesn’t hurt anyone anyway, so long as they are responsible. There’s really no reason to make a big deal about it.
 
Exalt said:
Just because something doesn’t make sense with thinking about it from a Darwinian perspective doesn’t mean that it is morally wrong.
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Didn’t say it was…try reading what I wrote. 😉
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Exalt:
I think it just comes down to this: Does it cause any harm to anyone for me to kiss another man?

I think there are some situations where this would be harmful. If the other man was sick and I might catch a cold. If the other man was married or in another relationship, it would cause serious harm to that relationship. Other than that, however, I think most people don’t see any harm in it.

But, you might say, just because something isn’t harmful doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s wrong. But think about that further. Can you think of a good example where something might still be wrong but totally harmless? I have trouble. If you can think of a good example, I’d like to hear it.

I suppose it comes down to this: It doesn’t really do any significant harm. So, what’s the big deal? Let people be gay and have their gay relationships. Doesn’t hurt anyone anyway, so long as they are responsible. There’s really no reason to make a big deal about it.
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From a religious perspective, it is a sin. From a secular standpoint it is not, and those who are homosexually inclined have the freedom to enter into relationships, live together, etc. The rest of us are free to vote not to elevate that relationship to be equivalent to marriage (even by calling it a “civil union”) since it has no value to society and is obviously a disordered desire…whether it “harms” anyone or not.
 
RobertLGarrett said:
From a secular standpoint it is not [a sin], and those who are homosexually inclined have the freedom to enter into relationships, live together, etc.
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Cool!
The rest of us are free to vote not to elevate that relationship to be equivalent to marriage (even by calling it a “civil union”) since it has no value to society and is obviously a disordered desire…whether it “harms” anyone or not.
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Watch:

youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY
 
Please let me know if I am wrong. :o Might not the massivie HIV/AIDS crisis be an example of harm? Or the high suicide rates among gays and lesbians? Or the extreme promiscuity? Or the effect on society’s valuation of women?

Marriage is dying in Scandanavia. 60% of children are now born out of wedlock in Denmark. A majority of children in Norway and Sweden are born out of wedlock. Why? One major reason is that gay marriage weakens the fundamental institutions of society. catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/ho0079.html Already polygamists have started to sue for their rights, and same-sex couples have started to sue to rights to include a third-party in their marriage as a sperm donor. Furthermore, gay marriage is unhealthy for the children. Research shows that it creates 3 subsets of marriage: man-man, man-woman, woman-woman, and all are substantially different. And, in societies where gay marriage is legal, politicians have begun to try to force the church to perform them.

And in 1973, Dr. Robert Spitzer was the psychiatrist behind removing gay from a list of mental disorders. He has now changed his mind and believes that some gay people can change through the results of his research after a period of time. He is Chief of Biometrics Research and Professor of Psychiatry at Columbia University. catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/ho0042.html

MAYBE GIVEN ALL THE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, MAYBE IT IS HARD TO ARGUE THAT IT IS HEALTHY!!! WHAT IS ONE SCIENTIFICALLY POSITIVE THING ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE???

MAYBE GAY PEOPLE ARE A SELF-HATING COMMUNITY IF THEY ACCEPT THOSE STATISTICS AS HEALTHY

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
AveSantaMaria said:
Please let me know if I am wrong. :o Might not the massivie HIV/AIDS crisis be an example of harm? Or the high suicide rates among gays and lesbians? Or the extreme promiscuity? Or the effect on society’s valuation of women?

Marriage is dying in Scandanavia. 60% of children are now born out of wedlock in Denmark. A majority of children in Norway and Sweden are born out of wedlock. Why? One major reason is that gay marriage weakens the fundamental institutions of society. catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/ho0079.html Already polygamists have started to sue for their rights, and same-sex couples have started to sue to rights to include a third-party in their marriage as a sperm donor. Furthermore, gay marriage is unhealthy for the children. Research shows that it creates 3 subsets of marriage: man-man, man-woman, woman-woman, and all are substantially different. And, in societies where gay marriage is legal, politicians have begun to try to force the church to perform them.

And in 1973, Dr. Robert Spitzer was the psychiatrist behind removing gay from a list of mental disorders. He has now changed his mind and believes that gay people can change through the results of his research. He is Chief of Biometrics Research and Professor of Psychiatry at Columbia University. catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/ho0042.html

MAYBE GIVEN ALL THE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, HOW CAN ANYONE POSSIBLY ARGUE THAT IT IS HEALTHY!!! WHAT IS ONE SCIENTIFICALLY POSITIVE THING ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE???

MAYBE GAY PEOPLE ARE A SELF-HATING COMMUNITY IF THEY ACCEPT THOSE STATISTICS AS HEALTHY
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Sounds like a fair argument to me. I’m sure Exalt has a couple things to say about it…not that it will change the truth.
 
Blade_and_Blood said:
I remain a Catholic because I feel I owe the Church my life and loyalty (whether I believe in its teachings or not). If it wasn’t for the Church, its teaching, and their views, I would not be who I am today. Therefore, leaving it would be like me entering Heaven, knowing thousands are still in Hell. 😦 Knowing I couldn’t do anything about it would be Hell to me.
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You remain in the Church to try “do something”, to save Catholics from hell? Is that what I’m getting here?
 
MarcoPolo said:
You remain in the Church to try “do something”, to save Catholics from hell? Is that what I’m getting here?
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I’m not staying for that reason. I’m staying because I’m grateful for how it’s made me in insights, which are rather neutral depending on an issue or belief.

Besides, my efforts to reform anything would be futile and in vain–at least for this generation. I enjoy listening from the sidelines, cheering on the Church I’m chained to. It’s funny–sometimes a little embarrassing–but I enjoy it.
 
Assuming your statement is true, probably not. Considering homosexuality was around (and, in multiple cultures, excepted) way before Christianity.
 
apromisemade said:
Assuming your statement is true, probably not. Considering homosexuality was around (and, in multiple cultures, excepted) way before Christianity.
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So was murder…🤷 By your reasoning, lots of stuff was around “way before Christianity.” :rolleyes:

Oh…and you are right (by mistake). Homosexuality was “excepted” in many cultures. 😃
 
Exalt said:
Read: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I think this particular youtube video merits actually watching it. I’ll post it again.

youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY
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Why should I watch a video by someone who irritates me? It is not happening. I’ve seen his show, and I don’t have any respect for him or his views. Why would you think anything he has to say would sway me??

As I said…if you have a point to make, make it yourself. Apparently, you have nothing of importance to say. 🤷
 
RobertLGarrett said:
Why should I watch a video by someone who irritates me? It is not happening. I’ve seen his show, and I don’t have any respect for him or his views. Why would you think anything he has to say would sway me??

As I said…if you have a point to make, make it yourself. Apparently, you have nothing of importance to say. 🤷
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I’m sure Jesus would smile on you for the display of charity you’ve made today. Happy holidays, Robert.%between%
 
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