Are homosexuals born with this disorder?

[Kaytu]

Of course not, and I saw that response coming. But don’t I count for something? If a scientist is about to claim that “all ladybugs turn blue if you feed them rice,” and suddenly he notices a few that stay red, shouldn’t that be investigated?

The fact of the matter is, most homosexuals are quiet about all of this. And furthermore, the vast (and I mean VAST) majority of homosexuals never say anything or reveal their inclinations to anyone. So there are probably plenty of people like me out there. How in the world are we supposed to draw any conclusions when we have such a significant number of homosexuals whom we don’t even know about?

 

[PerfectTiming]

The fact of the matter is, most homosexuals are quiet about all of this. And furthermore, the vast (and I mean VAST) majority of homosexuals never say anything or reveal their inclinations to anyone. So there are probably plenty of people like me out there. How in the world are we supposed to draw any conclusions when we have such a significant number of homosexuals whom we don’t even know about?

This is very interesting. How can you claim that a vast majority of homosexuals remain “in the closet”? It baffles me that you seem to think you can make a claim about something that there is absolutely no way you (or anyone for that matter) can actually know about.

 

[Kaytu]

You’re completely right, it is a claim. But I think it’s fairly founded.

There’s a lot of good reason to not come out, right?

You have to sit down with your parents and have a long talk, you have to lose some friends (and often times some family) in the process, you have to deal with people rejecting you, you have to live a life in a society full of stereotypes and prejudice.

Many people may live in parts of the world where there is literally not one open person. No one would want to come out. In some places it’s a crime.

You live in the same world as me. Surely you’ve seen some of the hate crimes committed against homosexuals?

More people in the United States are starting to come out, and I don’t think that this is an increase in the occurrence of homosexuality - I think people are starting to be more accepting, people are starting to “get” it.

It makes sense to me, but maybe it doesn’t to you, and I guess that’s okay, because as you said - it is just claim, and there’s no way to know for certain.

I also feel like reminding everyone that none of this goes against Church teachings…realizing that people struggle with homosexuality and are afraid to confide in others out of fear of rejection is something that we all should address in our attempts to understand same-sex attractions.

 

[Captain_America]

I think the “hate crime” argument lacks a great deal of factual basis. It’s hype, to serve political ends.

I suspect one reason homosexuality is difficult to shape is a pretty practical one: in our culture, men aren’t trained at sexual restraint to the same extent that women are. . . so a male-male relationship has more built-in sexual license.

I previously mentioned some problems with the dialogue on this topic. One I failed to mention is that homosexuals rarely listen to what heterosexuals say, or take seriously their concerns about very grave matters, especially marriage. Instead, it’s a “me, me” deal all the time; a highly personal thing, while the heterosexuals are really speaking for broader society. Thus, one person is highly personal/emotional, and the other less personally engaged in the discussion.

 

[dusty_david]

I think the “hate crime” argument lacks a great deal of factual basis. It’s hype, to serve political ends.

I suspect one reason homosexuality is difficult to shape is a pretty practical one: in our culture, men aren’t trained at sexual restraint to the same extent that women are. . . so a male-male relationship has more built-in sexual license.

I previously mentioned some problems with the dialogue on this topic. One I failed to mention is that homosexuals rarely listen to what heterosexuals say, or take seriously their concerns about very grave matters, especially marriage. Instead, it’s a “me, me” deal all the time; a highly personal thing, while the heterosexuals are really speaking for broader society. Thus, one person is highly personal/emotional, and the other less personally engaged in the discussion.

You know 30 years ago if a boy said he was a homosexual, he would have his face broken by other boys. If he continued to be a public homosexual, he would end up in a hospital or sometimes a grave. Seems we can no longer give this rough justice anymore. Anyway now boys are wearing make up in high school and no one can stop them. It’s not politically correct but the fact is that fear works. Homosexuals kept their mouths shut. Who cares if they were born homosexual or fell into it. Just keep quiet about it.

 

[edwest2]

It matters. Saying “who cares” is not dealing with the issue. Right now, the “opinion” formed by some is that homosexuals are born this way, but “maybe” and “maybe not” do not matter, because laws are being passed based on the premise that they are born this way.

It’s important to get the facts.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Hadrianus]

Whether the cause of a homosexual orientation is biological or developmental really isn’t relevant to law. That does not make the matter any less interesting; but it should not in itself determine the attitude to be taken by society. Alcoholism is probably caused by a mixture of biological and environmental factors. We don’t usually strip alcoholics of their civil rights, but nor does society encourage the behavior.

 

[RyanBlack]

You know 30 years ago if a boy said he was a homosexual, he would have his face broken by other boys. If he continued to be a public homosexual, he would end up in a hospital or sometimes a grave. Seems we can no longer give this rough justice anymore. Anyway now boys are wearing make up in high school and no one can stop them. It’s not politically correct but the fact is that fear works. Homosexuals kept their mouths shut. Who cares if they were born homosexual or fell into it. Just keep quiet about it.

I find it perverse that you would call assault and murder justice-even with the adjective “rough” attached. What you describe is sinful, and sin can never be equated with justice.

 

[edwest2]

Whether the cause of a homosexual orientation is biological or developmental really isn’t relevant to law. That does not make the matter any less interesting; but it should not in itself determine the attitude to be taken by society. Alcoholism is probably caused by a mixture of biological and environmental factors. We don’t usually strip alcoholics of their civil rights, but nor does society encourage the behavior.

Of course, it’s relevant to the law. Facts decide. And what are the facts here? Opinions don’t matter. My point is, certain legal actions are being taken and it is being “proposed” that there is a scientific basis for these actions. That does not appear to be the case.

Peace,
Ed

 

[bluelake]

I’m new to this thread but I do believe passionately, and from personal experience, that the majority (but not all) of S.S.A. men grow into this “attitude”. The Jesuits say, “Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you a man”, and certainly this rings true with me and all those S.S.A. men who have let me into their earlier lives and with whom I have shared. The great problem I feel is that this S.S.A.“feeling” comes into the mind and then Satan (and you’d better believe in him!) fans it into a fire, and what was initially a desire to simply have a loving, and yes pationate, relationship with another man (often caused by an early terribly, dysfunctional relationship with ones father, but certainly this is not always the case) becomes much more a desire for a sexual relationship. Once that is in place, and then acted upon, it is very, very difficult to admit the error, repent and call on Jesus for healing: healing of the dysfunctional relationship being the foundational problem.
I feel it is now becoming more and more socially acceptable to be Homosexual/bisexual etc, and you are one of the lads rather than recognising that, I feel, you are simply distancing yourself from Jesus. He wants an intimate relationship with us but it is up to us to positively, healthily respond and “love” Him. I feel that this sort of deviance actually contains little of the love of God, but that is drifting into another topic.
In myself I know that I could have gone into a very different lifestyle had not Jesus, through various, “Him inspired” circumstances, pulled me back from going over the top, as it were. I’m sure it was because I had already set out towards Him that this happened and where I feel any change/growth must start.

Brian,
The Bible teaches us that homosexuallity is a sin.
This can be found in Rom.1:24-32, 1Cor.6:9-20 This last passage includes
other sins as well. Please take the time to read them.
Tell me what you think.

God bless you,
bluelake

 

[bluelake]

I know women who are lesbians because they were abused by their fathers and brothers when they were young. They are quite open in that they are attracted to men, but they fear them. Women are safer.

I know men who are gay who have been attracted to men since a very young age.

I know men and women both who have sex with, well, anyone. They’re not even particularly attracted to that specific person. They’re simply attracted to sex. Their motto on sex is really ‘I’ll take what I can get’. It really doesn’t matter from whom.

I know men who are ‘gay for pay’. Though their natural inclination is towards women, it’s the men who pay for sex acts. So, for those ten minutes or so, they’re gay.

I know a gay man who was in a homosexual marriage. Then they decided that they should be in an ‘open’ marriage. Then they figured out that being in an open marriage is just like not being married, so they divorced. Except that they’d never married in the first place. It’s all very confusing.

I know another gay man who has been celibate for…well, at LEAST ten years. He says all of these gay men act like women and if he wanted a woman he’d be straight. Duh. Besides, he’s a workaholic.

I kind of don’t understand the whole ‘it’s natural’ argument anyway. I was naturally attracted to men and so, slept with them. I was STILL naturally attracted to men and decided NOT to sleep with them. I don’t understand what my natural inclinations have to do with a decision I make.

Your actions matter, not your inclinations.

The subject is sin, not a sexual activity. homosexuality is a sin. See 1Cor.6:9-20
Most young people are not aware of the terrible lifestyle they have gotten into.
We should pray for them.

God bless,
bluelake

 

[bluelake]

As I said, those interested can look at the data. A Swedish study of 2008 is interesting, as is also the fact that in the case studies the amygdala in homosexual men is smaller than in heterosexual men. The same is true of sheep who exhibit homosexual activity. Of course the brain can undergo changes caused by behavior. and this has been taken into account… As to whether or not sheep can be effeminate is however a question I cannot answer. In any case, none of the research is at present conclusive, but it should not be dismissed aprioristically.The important thing is to look at the issue objectively and follow calmly where the research leads rather than to reject evidence which doesn’t fit into pre conceived assumptions.

It’s amazing the lengths some will go to .They are desperately trying to justify their lifestyle.
To look at this lifestyle objectivly leads anyone with the same conclusion.
It isn’t what God intended. All of your answers can be found in the Holy Bible.

bluelake

 

[Hadrianus]

For Ed & Bluelake:

The title of this thread is “Are homosexuals born with this disorder?” If you want to start threads on what legal rights homosexuals should have, or on the sinfulness of homosexual acts by all means do so. But those are quite distinct questions from the etiology (ie cause)of homosexuality.

 

[Cinette]

Hi, Bill

If you really want to hear some interesting responses, make friends with some actual gay people, friendly ordinary people with whom you have something in common, and then at an appropriate time, ask 'em!

I’m sorry that sounds snotty. What I want to say is, it isn’t productive to objectify people according to their brand of sexual sin. This has been a challenge for me since I became a Christian. I never wanted to believe there was anything wrong with homosexuality. It has taken me a long time to accept that what God says, goes, and nobody gets to show up and change the rules.

So I have to reconcile the gay community’s desire to believe that homosexuality is a trait one is born with (and I have seen my share of gay animals), with the many, many times I have heard the defensive statement “Yes, I was molested as a kid, but that’s not why I’m gay!” A lot of heartbreak in the gay community, and not just from social rejection.

I feel that when the bible says that Jesus was tempted in every way, that people who are struggling with their sexual orientation should take comfort in His victory against their temptation.

I think it’s worth noting that homosexuality is associated with spirituality in many cultures. My best personal guess is that Satan is responsible for all viruses, deformities, hormonal imbalances, etc., and that God really can work everything for good. I don’t know many people (except maybe missionaries in hostile countries?) who have been able to choose the cross they would bear.

I understand that this is off the OP but, I think Christianity owes the gay community a coherent message of hope, as well as the undistorted truth about God’s laws. Let’s not wait until the definitive analysis comes in!

*It has been said that human waste is full of hormones (the pill) estrogen which has got into the water supply and earth and consequently it ends up in the human body and affects people in different ways. My little granddaughter’s breasts began to grow at 8 years old and I remember that her friends were as well. It is said that fish are being affected also in that more male fish are emerging which is catastrophic. Could it not be that we humans are doing damage to the environment which in turns affects us also? I do believe that children are being taught weird things about sexuality at school (who do they think they are these teachers who put such rubbish ideas in children’s minds?).

Sperm is designed to operate in an “enclosed chamber” (the womb) and not in every orifice of the body. It is a known thing that homosexuals and heterosexuals are getting cancer is these other orifices. STD is very bad among people who engage in recreational sex. People have been affected by the new “moral relativism” of our secular society. We damage ourselves by our “laissez faire” secular attitudes.

Hmmmm…

Cinette*

 

[Kaytu]

I think the “hate crime” argument lacks a great deal of factual basis. It’s hype, to serve political ends.

I think that’s a very insensitive thing to say. Teenage suicide is not hype. Beatings and bullying are not hype. People seem to have the idea that homosexuality is “fashionable” or “chic,” (as if people are choosing their attractions), and I think all of the hate crimes and suicides out there are perfect examples of how this is far from the truth.

I previously mentioned some problems with the dialogue on this topic. One I failed to mention is that homosexuals rarely listen to what heterosexuals say, or take seriously their concerns about very grave matters, especially marriage. Instead, it’s a “me, me” deal all the time; a highly personal thing, while the heterosexuals are really speaking for broader society. Thus, one person is highly personal/emotional, and the other less personally engaged in the discussion.

What are heterosexuals “saying?” What is it homosexuals supposedly aren’t listening to? I think you’re confusing homosexuals with homosexual “advocates.” You seem to be referring to gay marriage which is an entirely separate topic.

Homosexuals have a right to be “me, me” because society does not understand very much about homosexuality - scientifically, psychologically, etc.

Once again, I think you - like many others - are mistakenly assuming all persons with same-sex attractions adhere to stereotypes.

 

[kozlosap]

Whether the cause of a homosexual orientation is biological or developmental really isn’t relevant to law. That does not make the matter any less interesting; but it should not in itself determine the attitude to be taken by society. Alcoholism is probably caused by a mixture of biological and environmental factors. We don’t usually strip alcoholics of their civil rights, but nor does society encourage the behavior.

:thumbsup:Exactly! The Constitution of the United States of America applies to EVERYONE regardless of their heritage, gender, or sexual orientation.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

You know 30 years ago if a boy said he was a homosexual, he would have his face broken by other boys. If he continued to be a public homosexual, he would end up in a hospital or sometimes a grave. Seems we can no longer give this rough justice anymore. Anyway now boys are wearing make up in high school and no one can stop them. It’s not politically correct but the fact is that fear works. Homosexuals kept their mouths shut. Who cares if they were born homosexual or fell into it. Just keep quiet about it.

It sounds like you’re advocating violence (“rough justice”) against homosexual persons. Is this so?

 

[edwest2]

For Ed & Bluelake:

The title of this thread is “Are homosexuals born with this disorder?” If you want to start threads on what legal rights homosexuals should have, or on the sinfulness of homosexual acts by all means do so. But those are quite distinct questions from the etiology (ie cause)of homosexuality.

According to the Catholic Medical Association, homosexuals are not born that way.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Kaytu]

dusty david:

You know 30 years ago if a boy said he was a homosexual, he would have his face broken by other boys. If he continued to be a public homosexual, he would end up in a hospital or sometimes a grave. Seems we can no longer give this rough justice anymore. Anyway now boys are wearing make up in high school and no one can stop them. It’s not politically correct but the fact is that fear works. Homosexuals kept their mouths shut. Who cares if they were born homosexual or fell into it. Just keep quiet about it.

Once again, stereotypes! Boys wearing makeup have absolutely NOTHING to do with homosexuality! What you’re saying is offensive to the many homosexuals out there who are nothing like this.

But for the record, I’m very sorry that you think boys wearing makeup “need to be stopped.” I think we have far more important issues out there than makeup…but maybe that’s just me.

And also, I can assure you that a boy wearing makeup in the average American high school WILL be made fun of and bullied.

Finally, as LCMS_No_More mentioned, it sounds like you are advocating violence (rough justice?) against people who reveal they have same-sex attractions. Kids are still getting their “faces broken by other boys” today, as you mention. And as I’ve mentioned a billion times, there is nothing wrong with identifying and confiding in others your same-sax attractions. In fact, I think it is much easier to deal with these feelings if one confronts them.

 

[dusty_david]

I’m not advocating violence. Society today has changed alot in 30 years. Boys who say that they are homosexuals in junior high or high schools do not have to worry about other boys’ reactions.