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ribozyme
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I posted this in another thread and I feel it is best I make a new thread about it:
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wynnejj
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Mother Teresa of Calcutta is probably the most well known person to give up everything to work with the poor. She became famous but, not until after long years of self-giving her all to work with the poorest of the poor.
There are many charitable organizations in the United States for individuals to transfer a portion of their income without taxation. For example, I’ve been contributing to Christian Children’s Fund, sponsoring two children at a time, for 30 years.
There are many large contributions from individuals to foreign missions where the contributors do not really know the recipients of their donations.
Most people who give, give from their abundance. It is easy if you have prospered over the years.
It is true that it is rare that someone is willing to change their standard of living such as to become as poor as the really under-privileged. Mother Teresa of Calcutta is one example of that rare exception.
There are many charitable organizations in the United States for individuals to transfer a portion of their income without taxation. For example, I’ve been contributing to Christian Children’s Fund, sponsoring two children at a time, for 30 years.
There are many large contributions from individuals to foreign missions where the contributors do not really know the recipients of their donations.
Most people who give, give from their abundance. It is easy if you have prospered over the years.
It is true that it is rare that someone is willing to change their standard of living such as to become as poor as the really under-privileged. Mother Teresa of Calcutta is one example of that rare exception.
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Dale_M
Guest
Wow, I am sorry for that. Try volunteering at a homeless shelter, or helping provide flood relief, or any other “charity”. You will meet lots of folks who give of themselves out of love for their neighbor.I rarely seen any examples of human “love”; I never seen anyone giving very generously without any concern for any remuneration or prestige for their giving.
You are probably right that not many make such a major sacrifice. As Wynnejj said, people tend to give from their abundance.I have never seen anyone give up their standard of living to help the unfortunate, and I do not expect many people to do it
But those who do make greater sacrifices are often invisible to the public eye - their lives and actions are only seen by those immediately around them. They don’t seek the limelight. Many Americans are only heard about the position of “community organizer” because of the presidential race and yet there are quite a few community organizers in the US and they work at a pay scale far below what they could gain in the private sector.
Oh dear, that is far, far too dark and dangerously misleading. Humans are social animals. We survive and thrive by cooperating with one another. This cooperation allows for the survival and spread of our species.We did not evolve to help others; we evolved mainly to pass on our genes. All I see are aggregrates of “selfish genes” competing in the Hobbesian jungle
This dichotomy is unfortunate, and is based upon a desire to limit individual compassion and the resulting demand on our individual resources. But not all humans invoke such a dichotomy. I think it is un-Christian to do so.Instead we have a tendency to group the poor as either “deserving” or “undeserving.”
I am not sure that the charitable actions of individuals can easily be classified as liberal or conservative. Some liberals are charitable, some conservatives are charitable.I do not regard liberals as charitable people; they are simply utilitarians who believe that there is a paucity of charity within this species.
But again, I would like to encourage you to get out and get involved with some volunteer efforts. I guarantee you that you will meet charitable people.
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lydia_coffman
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Perhaps you aren’t aware of those who are charitable simply to be charitable vs. for notoriety because those individuals DO NOT SEEK notoriety. At my parish we have had anonymous donations over the past couple of years to completely recarpet the church, redo the parish hall bathrooms, install new airconditioning, purchase a new crucifix for the sanctuary, install a new sound system, and on and on. None of these are cheap, and no one in our parish is what you would call filthy rich. We have people who practically live at the church volunteering. In my quilting guild giving/donating to a variety of causes is part of what we regularly do. So I think it’s out there, you just have to look harder.
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Pug
Guest
Who are you more likely to see, a person who is deliberately seeking to be seen, or a person who is perhaps trying not to be seen? I know a number of people, any of whom could easily be hiding many acts of charity. Unless I ask them to enumerate those acts or unless I spy, I have no idea.
The idea that people generally give to get something in return seems false, in my experience. I know many people who regularly give without expecting the person to give anything back. I see it in deliberate charity, like visiting the sick, and in simple daily living, like work/office interactions. Perhaps the majority of anyone’s actions, though, is dominated by habit.
I do agree that most people in this country seem to continue to live a certain way, even though they might live a different way. Perhaps this type of sacrifice seems like it requires too much discipline, and so they are scared of it. I would be. If I gave all my money away, my house, my car, etc., then how would I eat without becoming a burden to another? How would I continue to work without a car? Stuff like that. I think we shy away from doing something that seems like it will have drastic consequences that we can’t foresee.
I *have *seen someone help the imprisoned, for example, who have zero kinship relationship to them. Total strangers, years and years of total dedication and service offered, no expectation of repayment. This type of service to the other does exist; you probably just haven’t seen it. Of course, they aren’t total strangers by the time those years have passed.
It is unclear why you believe charity is futile. I donate money to pay someone’s rent and their rent gets paid. The outcome is achieved. I visit a sick person and they get visited. Desired outcome again achieved. Sure, sometimes there is a monkey with a wrench, my car breaks down and I don’t get there that day, but I find it hard to imagine this is what you mean by “futile”.
The idea that people generally give to get something in return seems false, in my experience. I know many people who regularly give without expecting the person to give anything back. I see it in deliberate charity, like visiting the sick, and in simple daily living, like work/office interactions. Perhaps the majority of anyone’s actions, though, is dominated by habit.
I do agree that most people in this country seem to continue to live a certain way, even though they might live a different way. Perhaps this type of sacrifice seems like it requires too much discipline, and so they are scared of it. I would be. If I gave all my money away, my house, my car, etc., then how would I eat without becoming a burden to another? How would I continue to work without a car? Stuff like that. I think we shy away from doing something that seems like it will have drastic consequences that we can’t foresee.
I *have *seen someone help the imprisoned, for example, who have zero kinship relationship to them. Total strangers, years and years of total dedication and service offered, no expectation of repayment. This type of service to the other does exist; you probably just haven’t seen it. Of course, they aren’t total strangers by the time those years have passed.
It is unclear why you believe charity is futile. I donate money to pay someone’s rent and their rent gets paid. The outcome is achieved. I visit a sick person and they get visited. Desired outcome again achieved. Sure, sometimes there is a monkey with a wrench, my car breaks down and I don’t get there that day, but I find it hard to imagine this is what you mean by “futile”.
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Ruthie
Guest
Pug has it right.
Ribozyme, from reading your other posts, I have come to think of you as expecting people to be purely self-serving. What you expect tends to be what you see in others.
Ruthie
Another factor is that we also see what we *expect *to see. I used to walk around the streets seeing only the people frowning at me. There were plenty of smilers, but they didn’t register on my consciousness. Then I had a spiritual change, and now I see the smilers, and the frowners don’t register. Have the people on the street changed? No. I have.Who are you more likely to see, a person who is deliberately seeking to be seen, or a person who is perhaps trying not to be seen?
Ribozyme, from reading your other posts, I have come to think of you as expecting people to be purely self-serving. What you expect tends to be what you see in others.
Ruthie
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wynnejj
Guest
This weeks Gospel readings at Sunday Mass were all about generosity, coincidentally enough. It was the story about the land owner hiring people to pick his crops at harvest time. He went out looking for more laborers throughout the day, but gave all a full day’s wage. Those who had only worked a couple of hours were given the full day’s wage, as well as those that worked the full day. The land owner contended that it was his right to be generous.
The sermon after the Gospel reading was about two dinners our pastor attended. One dinner was of the Italian type, it was very generous, people helped themselves to bread by breaking it off in chunks and helped themselves to whatever size serving you chose. More was brought out as needed. The other dinner was a great gourmet dinner and when it came time for dessert, the cake was cut up fairly & precisely. The brother would complain that mom had given sister more than him. So the mom would try to make the portions exactly equal. In fact the meal had been interrupted regularly about the fairness of the sizes of the portions.
Our pastor suggested that what God preferred was the household that values generosity over fairness, as depicted in the Gospel reading.
The sermon after the Gospel reading was about two dinners our pastor attended. One dinner was of the Italian type, it was very generous, people helped themselves to bread by breaking it off in chunks and helped themselves to whatever size serving you chose. More was brought out as needed. The other dinner was a great gourmet dinner and when it came time for dessert, the cake was cut up fairly & precisely. The brother would complain that mom had given sister more than him. So the mom would try to make the portions exactly equal. In fact the meal had been interrupted regularly about the fairness of the sizes of the portions.
Our pastor suggested that what God preferred was the household that values generosity over fairness, as depicted in the Gospel reading.
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bilop
Guest
Americans gave $305 Billion to charity in 2007.
rawstory.com/news/afp/US_charity_donations_hit_2007_recor_06232008.html
That seems pretty generous.
God Bless
rawstory.com/news/afp/US_charity_donations_hit_2007_recor_06232008.html
That seems pretty generous.
God Bless
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demol
Guest
Like Dale_M said, stop by a homeless shelter, or visit a local Children’s Hospital or Nursing Home. You will find many, many, many examples of people performing actions of great love for others that aren’t related to them, with no monetary benefit or prestige for themselves. You might be inspired!I still haven’t seen anyone performing an action of great love for anyone that isn’t related to them by kinship. Most people are not willing to sacrifice their standard of living to help the poor, and they will only merely give a few hundred dollars at most. I still believe charity is quite futile because it is not within our nature to be charitable. Instead we have a tendency to group the poor as either “deserving” or “undeserving.” Cooperation does happen within the human species if it benefits themselves, but charity is extremely rare.
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Starwynd
Guest
Humans are never charitable nor moral without some sort of incentive, however small or large.
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wynnejj
Guest
Even dogs can be instinctively what we might consider charitable and moral - it can be very natural. You hear about the farmer’s dog that heard an abandoned human baby crying in a field in Argentina and dragged the baby over to its puppies and kept it warm. I admit though that there are some humans whose natural charity and moral instincts are not only sub-human but sub-canine.Humans are never charitable nor moral without some sort of incentive, however small or large.
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