Are impure thoughts a mortal sin?

[Pieman333272]

Are impure/lustful thoughts a mortal or venial sin? If the former, does that remain the case if you have a sexual fetish?

 

[Elizabeth502]

When you deliberately consent to them, entertain them, relish them, they are gravely sinful. The consent itself (to prolong the thought or the fantasy), outside of a marital relationship, moves the temptation toward grave “matter” to the category of “sin.” (Sin involving consent & knowledge that it is indeed a sin.)

Fr. Larry Richards covers this in his CD, Confession, which costs one dollar for the shipping but is otherwise free.

We can’t control or prevent all thoughts entering our mind. Once a thought is there, it’s what we do with the thought that counts. Dwelling in it, embellishing on it, moves it from, as I say, a temptation or an unwilled thought, to a willed embrace of the thought.

 

[Bookcat]

Lustful thoughts are grave matter for mortal sin. Yes.

When does one commit mortal sin?

Compendium of the Catechism -issued by Pope Benedict XVI

1. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

1. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html#A%29%20COMMON%20PRAYERS

 

[Bookcat]

But often such can be unwanted temptation etc…

(From previous posts of mine)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)

---

Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

(and these can happen to all of us by the way…)

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I am reminded of one of our old Monsigneur’s favorite jokes:

Penitent: I had impure thoughts.

Confessor: Did you entertain them?

Penitent: No, Father, they were entertaining me.

 

[PJM]

=Pieman333272;7782338]Are impure/lustful thoughts a mortal or venial sin? If the former, does that remain the case if you have a sexual fetish?

Not in and off “themselves”.

But can be if encouraged; retained and acted upon. It’s ones COOPERATION with evil that makes a sin a mortal sin.

1. Serious Matter [could be]
2. Awareness of the FACT that it is a serious matter [could be]
3. Then encouraging the thougts rather than asking God for help with them.

So this COULD BE a Mortal sin? Depending on what We choose to do with and about it. ALWAYS ask your Confessor for advise on a matter your unsure of.

God Bless
Pat

 

[Bookcat]

Janet_Cardin:

No, thoughts are not sinful. Thoughts do not need to be repented for. … To tell you the truth I have no idea what type of sin thoughts become.

Yes thoughts can be sinful…and need to be repented of.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

 

[shinytoy]

Are impure/lustful thoughts a mortal or venial sin? If the former, does that remain the case if you have a sexual fetish?

no. i confessed in confession to the priest that i had frequent impure thoughts about my ex boyfriend. i regularly m@strubate over how hot he was. but the priest said impure thoughts were unhelpful and you should either read a book or pray or try to distract yourself. but he ddint way they were really bad or anything. i also confessed to fooling about with my ex. we didnt have sex but have some other fun times. but the priest said only intercourse was sexual immorality and if you dont have sex it isnt immorality. also the dude was divorced but NOT annulled, and the priest said it was not adultery for me to be dating him and foling about hotly with him since we didnt have sex.

so yeah. i go for venial. there is a part of the CCC that says it may not even be that -
depending on “the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.”
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2352.htm

so yeah. m@struabing over your girlfriend is ok, m@sturabing over normal porn and rude thoughts is ok. addiction, perversion or hardcore stuff is a NO.

 

[Pieman333272]

Janet_Cardin:

fetishes are sinful when such enters the heart and/or becomes actual behavior.

Does this mean I can’t act on my fetish, even in the scenario of marriage? I shouldn’t employ this when I decide if I like a girl “that way” or not?

 

[Pieman333272]

If you briefly entertain sexual thoughts but catch yourself and stop, is that still a mortal sin, or would that be the near occasion?

 

[Bookcat]

If you briefly entertain sexual thoughts but catch yourself and stop, is that still a mortal sin, or would that be the near occasion?

( remember one can even sin in one way or another…by putting oneself in a near occasion etc)

For a mortal sin on needs not only grave matter…but full knowledge and complete consent.

So it really depends on what one means …

Perhaps this may help:

Some signs that one lacked consent or gave only “partial consent”:

If even though there was some instinctive pleasure …we do not want it…we are unhappy or horrified about the evil…or struggle to not be overcome …we turn to God in Prayer --these are some signs of no consent (if of course we stay in this stage…and do not later consent)

(For example some thoughts come out of the blue just cause one happened to see an attractive person…and one does not want the thoughts but turns to God in Prayer or is horrified by them and turns to something else etc…no matter how much they come back…if one does not consent at all…there is no sin…but rather possibly growth in virtues)

If one hesitates for a moment but then does not want to sin and so rejects it and does not give full consent (thus a fault against prudence)

If one resists but the resistance is half hearted…one does resist but it is weak or slow…but in the end one rejects it…such would seem to be half consent and thus venial

(Based on A Tanquery… he bases things on S. Augustine…but much of this is simply repeated in various places…for it is the basics in judging such)

 

[Elizabeth502]

no. i confessed in confession to the priest that i had frequent impure thoughts about my ex boyfriend. i regularly m@strubate over how hot he was. but the priest said impure thoughts were unhelpful and you should either read a book or pray or try to distract yourself. but he ddint way they were really bad or anything. i also confessed to fooling about with my ex. we didnt have sex but have some other fun times. but the priest said only intercourse was sexual immorality and if you dont have sex it isnt immorality. also the dude was divorced but NOT annulled, and the priest said it was not adultery for me to be dating him and foling about hotly with him since we didnt have sex.

so yeah. i go for venial. there is a part of the CCC that says it may not even be that -
depending on “the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.”
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2352.htm

so yeah. m@struabing over your girlfriend is ok, m@sturabing over normal porn and rude thoughts is ok. addiction, perversion or hardcore stuff is a NO.

So utterly non-doctrinal that I don’t know where to begin. And imagine, it’s Holy Thursday.

 

[Elizabeth502]

If you briefly entertain sexual thoughts but catch yourself and stop, is that still a mortal sin, or would that be the near occasion?

No, in that case, you have indeed resisted the temptation; you have made a decision not to succumb to – i.e., fully entertain – the (very natural) temptation. No sin. And this is excellent practice because it builds up your resistance when you can catch yourself.

We cannot eliminate temptations from our lives, especially sexual ones – not only because every one of us is a sexual creature, but because the media inundates us with soft and hard-core porn. What that just requires us to do more than ever before is to make conscious efforts to restrict our temptations when possible. (Such as, I have to avoid lots of cable channels; I can’t attend an awful lot of modern movies, etc.) Men should never download pornography from the internet, or they will find it almost impossible to remain pure, etc.

 

[Bookcat]

. … but the priest said only intercourse was sexual immorality and if you dont have sex it isnt immorality. also the dude was divorced but NOT annulled, and the priest said it was not adultery for me to be dating him and foling about hotly with him since we didnt have sex.

so yeah. m@struabing over your girlfriend is ok, m@sturabing over normal porn and rude thoughts is ok. addiction, perversion or hardcore stuff is a NO.

Such does not reflect the teaching of the Church…you need to see another Priest. Sexual sins are grave matter…and one should not be engaging in them…even if they are not intercourse…

You need to examine yourself…and go see another Priest!

I will not address everything…there was much there…such as regarding divorced person --they are presumed to be married! …so one should not be acting that way with him or anyone for that matter…(and one does not “date” a married person…even if their wife lets you (as in the case of a divorce)…until it is established that they are not married in reality …which is what an anullment is)

 

[Elizabeth502]

You need to examine yourself…and go see another Priest!

Really. In fact, I’ll reverse that order: first go see another priest, maybe a different parish or even diocese, perhaps one that features a Latin Mass, since a traditionally trained priest will be there.

And then, with the priest’s help, examine yourself.