Are indulgences a "tangible" thing

[reff]

Okay I’ve been having an “EXTREMELY” rough time completely understanding the Church doctrines on Indulgences. So far, I understand that they are granted as remission for temporal punishment of sins, I.E. time spent in Purgatory.

But how officially are Indulgences granted? Does the Papacy determine what prayers or devotions grant an indulgence? And is the indulgence a tangible thing, like is it something that is signed by the Pope or a priest and given to someone.

For example, if I were to say a prayer that grants an indulgence, would I need to receive the indulgence by going to a priest and telling him I said that prayer?

 

[thistle]

Okay I’ve been having an “EXTREMELY” rough time completely understanding the Church doctrines on Indulgences. So far, I understand that they are granted as remission for temporal punishment of sins, I.E. time spent in Purgatory.

But how officially are Indulgences granted? Does the Papacy determine what prayers or devotions grant an indulgence? And is the indulgence a tangible thing, like is it something that is signed by the Pope or a priest and given to someone.

For example, if I were to say a prayer that grants an indulgence, would I need to receive the indulgence by going to a priest and telling him I said that prayer?

I wouldn’t worry about things like that. If you die and find yourself in purgatory be happy because it means you have been saved and it cannot be taken away no matter the time you spend there. After purification next stop is Heaven.

 

[VivienneJ]

Okay I’ve been having an “EXTREMELY” rough time completely understanding the Church doctrines on Indulgences. So far, I understand that they are granted as remission for temporal punishment of sins, I.E. time spent in Purgatory.

But how officially are Indulgences granted? Does the Papacy determine what prayers or devotions grant an indulgence? And is the indulgence a tangible thing, like is it something that is signed by the Pope or a priest and given to someone.

For example, if I were to say a prayer that grants an indulgence, would I need to receive the indulgence by going to a priest and telling him I said that prayer?

Reff, first welcome, I converted from Anglican a little over a year ago. I too have found the indulgences tricky to understand.

I’m sure someone with better knowledge will chip in and correct me and that’ll be great. But until then, how I feel it works is that somehow the record of indulgences granted is kept in heaven, when you die the sins you still need to spend time repenting are on one side of the balance scales and the indulgences on the other and your time is calculated…somehow.

My concern is that there is a danger of only using the prayers that grant an indulgence, and while all prayer is good, that feels like some sort of cheating to me.

As far as I know no certificates are given out though

 

[Joan_M]

But how officially are Indulgences granted? Does the Papacy determine what prayers or devotions grant an indulgence? And is the indulgence a tangible thing, like is it something that is signed by the Pope or a priest and given to someone.

For example, if I were to say a prayer that grants an indulgence, would I need to receive the indulgence by going to a priest and telling him I said that prayer?

No, indulgences are not “tangible”. You will not get a certificate from anyone. There are many indulgences that can be gained - plenary and partial.

I invite you to visit the following site to see all of them, and to gain greater insight into them:

ourladyswarriors.org/indulge/

 

[benedictus2]

Okay I’ve been having an “EXTREMELY” rough time completely understanding the Church doctrines on Indulgences. So far, I understand that they are granted as remission for temporal punishment of sins, I.E. time spent in Purgatory.

But how officially are Indulgences granted? Does the Papacy determine what prayers or devotions grant an indulgence? And is the indulgence a tangible thing, like is it something that is signed by the Pope or a priest and given to someone.

For example, if I were to say a prayer that grants an indulgence, would I need to receive the indulgence by going to a priest and telling him I said that prayer?

Indulgence is not tangible like a document. An indulgence maybe attached to say praying the rosary, praying certain novenas, visiting holy places,alms giving, etc.

Whether you know or not that an indulgence has been given for certain things, you merit this indulgence when you perform these acts.

The doctrine of indulgences derive from the granting of the keys to Peter and the power to bind and lose in heaven and on earth so the Pope grants the indulgences although bishops can also grand 1 year indulgences at the dedication of churches.

I will post a longer explanation if the above is not making any more sense than what you already know.

 

[eelpis]

The superfluous merits of Christ and the saints comprise the spiritual treasury of the Church. (Christ’s merits are infinite, and the saints only needed a certain amount to get to heaven, the rest is for us to share) The pope and sometimes the bishops have the authority to grant us a share in these merits by way of indulgences. It’s like a spiritual “bloodtransfusion” and it’s one of the ways that the communion of saints works.

 

[Aramis]

Okay I’ve been having an “EXTREMELY” rough time completely understanding the Church doctrines on Indulgences. So far, I understand that they are granted as remission for temporal punishment of sins, I.E. time spent in Purgatory.

But how officially are Indulgences granted? Does the Papacy determine what prayers or devotions grant an indulgence? And is the indulgence a tangible thing, like is it something that is signed by the Pope or a priest and given to someone.

For example, if I were to say a prayer that grants an indulgence, would I need to receive the indulgence by going to a priest and telling him I said that prayer?

Not unless that’s specified in the indulgence.

You do the required actions, you earn the time reduction.

 

[LilyM]

Whether you know or not that an indulgence has been given for certain things, you merit this indulgence when you perform these acts.

This needs a bit of elaboration. As a general rule, you do have to have at least a general intention of gaining the indulgences attached to the prayers that you say in order to gain an indulgence.

Many ‘morning offering’ prayers express this sort of general intention to offer to God all indulgences attached to the prayers and works you do each day. I should think you’d have to regularly renew that intention - I doubt you could form it just once and have it hold good for your entire life or anything.

So you can’t gain indulgences entirely by accident - although you can gain them without knowing specifically what indulgence is attached to which prayer.

 

[claymcdermott]

I’ll try to explain this as best I can. Sometimes you mess up, and when you do, you go to Confession and your forgiven, but you’re still hurting inside, and you’ve still got these bad habits and limitations. To get better, and get rid of all these imperfections you could say indulgences here on Earth, or you could get these problems fixed up in Purgatory( where you’re purged of all your sins). It’s preferable to say indulgences, because you want to get rid of all your bad habits and moral deficincies right away. Nobody gives you a certificate or anything, because God knows what you did. As for doing indulgences in addition to prayer, you can fast, or study the Bible, or do numerous other things. Now there’s a common misconception that an indulgence of 30 days means 30 days off in purgatory, but what it means is that it gives as much grace as an early Christian would get for saying a similar prayer for thirty days.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

But how officially are Indulgences granted? Does the Papacy determine what prayers or devotions grant an indulgence?

Yes, the Church, under the leadership of the Pope, determines the acts which carry an indulgence. They are collected in a book called the Enchiridion on Indulgences. The1968 version is online here ourladyswarriors.org/indulge/ ; a newer version has been published, but I am not sure whether it is available online.

And is the indulgence a tangible thing, like is it something that is signed by the Pope or a priest and given to someone.

For example, if I were to say a prayer that grants an indulgence, would I need to receive the indulgence by going to a priest and telling him I said that prayer?

No, normally you just do the indulgenced acts with the intention of gaining the indulgence. I do this every morning with my morning offering by saying something like this: “I offer all the indulgences obtained today for the souls in Purgatory.” Most indulgences can be applied either to yourself or to the souls in Purgatory, but not to another living person.

To obtain a plenary indulgence, in addition to the idulgenced act you must satisfy the following “usual conditions”:

• Confession (usually within about a week before or after the indulgenced act)
• Holy Communion
• Pray for the Pope (most people pray an Our Father/Hail Mary/Glory Be for his intentions, but you can pray for the Pope in any way you like)
• Detachment from all sin, mortal and venial

 

[benedictus2]

This needs a bit of elaboration. As a general rule, you do have to have at least a general intention of gaining the indulgences attached to the prayers that you say in order to gain an indulgence.

Many ‘morning offering’ prayers express this sort of general intention to offer to God all indulgences attached to the prayers and works you do each day. I should think you’d have to regularly renew that intention - I doubt you could form it just once and have it hold good for your entire life or anything.

So you can’t gain indulgences entirely by accident - although you can gain them without knowing specifically what indulgence is attached to which prayer.

So does that mean that you have to be aware that an indulgence is attached to something before you get its merit?

Some of the novena’s have indulgences attached to them. Now I don’t pray them for the indulgence. Does that mean I don’t merit the indulgence because I did not do it for that purpose?

Also, if I don’t know that the novena has an indulgence attached to it, I don’t get the indulgence either?

 

[eelpis]

So does that mean that you have to be aware that an indulgence is attached to something before you get its merit?

Some of the novena’s have indulgences attached to them. Now I don’t pray them for the indulgence. Does that mean I don’t merit the indulgence because I did not do it for that purpose?

Also, if I don’t know that the novena has an indulgence attached to it, I don’t get the indulgence either?

Check the link posted above to the enchiridion.

To gain all the indulgences for the day you can make a statement of intention in your morning prayers. “God I have the intention today to gain all the indulgences that I am able to gain.”

 

[benedictus2]

Check the link posted above to the enchiridion.

To gain all the indulgences for the day you can make a statement of intention in your morning prayers. “God I have the intention today to gain all the indulgences that I am able to gain.”

Hi eelpis,

Not sure which post you are refering to. Can you give me the post number?

Oops, cancel that. Just found it.

 

[jmcrae]

So does that mean that you have to be aware that an indulgence is attached to something before you get its merit?

No, but you do have to have the general intention to receive the indulgence. So, for example, in your morning offering you would say, “Angel of God, remit to me all of the Indulgences that I might gain in the coming day.”

You would also go to Confession at least twice a month so that you would never be in a situation where you are not in a state of grace to receive the Indulgence, or not having been recently, or soon about to go, to Confession (since you have to be in the state of grace, and go to Confession within 8 days of the action of the Indulgence, whatever it may be - either 8 days before or 8 days after). And you would receive Holy Communion and pray the prayers for the Pope on a daily basis, since to receive an Indulgence, you also have to receive Holy Communion and pray the prayers for the Pope on the same day.

Some of the novena’s have indulgences attached to them. Now I don’t pray them for the indulgence. Does that mean I don’t merit the indulgence because I did not do it for that purpose?

If you want to receive the Indulgence, simply mention the fact to your Guardian Angel, and he will take care of the details.

Also, if I don’t know that the novena has an indulgence attached to it, I don’t get the indulgence either?

If you have a general intention to receive any and all Indulgences, you would simply mention the fact to your Guardian Angel in your morning offering, do all of the necessary things (Holy Communion the same day, Confession within the space of 8 days, prayers for the Pope the same day) and then he would take care of it for you.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

to receive an Indulgence, you also have to receive Holy Communion and pray the prayers for the Pope on the same day.

Hi jmcrae,

You may have inadvertently communicated that Holy Communion and prayers for the Pope have to be on the same day.

It is appropriate for them to be on the same day as the indulgenced act, but not strictly necessary. It would be sufficient if they are done several day before or after (about 20 days.)

Of course, it makes sense to do them on the same day as the indulgenced act.

VC

 

[jmcrae]

Hi jmcrae,

You may have inadvertently communicated that Holy Communion and prayers for the Pope have to be on the same day.

It is appropriate for them to be on the same day as the indulgenced act, but not strictly necessary. It would be sufficient if they are done several day before or after (about 20 days.)

No, Holy Communion and the prayers for the Pope are normally done on the same day as the Indulgenced act, unless it is impossible for some reason, and in that case, a few days before or after is permitted, but not to be considered normal. (Norms 23:3) Confession is done within “a few” days on either side (confession every two weeks covers this). I’m not sure where you’re getting the 20 days from.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

No, Holy Communion and the prayers for the Pope are normally done on the same day as the Indulgenced act, unless it is impossible for some reason, and in that case, a few days before or after is permitted, but not to be considered normal. (Norms 23:3)

jmcrae,

Can you show us where you find the language “unless it is impossible for some reason” to do it on the same day?

Norm 23, 3 states:The three conditions may be carried out several days preceding or following performance of the prescribed work. But it is more fitting that the communion and the prayer for the pope’s intentions take place on the day the work is performed.
The Apostolic Penitentiary’s document The Gift of The Indulgence restates this, and also includes the “about 20” days language:
5. It is appropriate, but not necessary, that the sacramental Confession and especially Holy Communion and the prayer for the Pope’s intentions take place on the same day that the indulgenced work is performed; but it is sufficient that these sacred rites and prayers be carried out within several days (about 20) before or after the indulgenced act.
In both cases the language used is “more fitting” or “appropriate”. I was just pointing out that this language seems a bit different from you language in your previous post where you said “to receive an Indulgence, you also **have to **receive Holy Communion and pray the prayers for the Pope on the same day.”

VC

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae,

Can you show us where you find the language “unless it is impossible for some reason” to do it on the same day?

Norm 23, 3 states:The three conditions may be carried out several days preceding or following performance of the prescribed work. But it is more fitting that the communion and the prayer for the pope’s intentions take place on the day the work is performed.
The Apostolic Penitentiary’s document The Gift of The Indulgence restates this, and also includes the “about 20” days language:
5. It is appropriate, but not necessary, that the sacramental Confession and especially Holy Communion and the prayer for the Pope’s intentions take place on the same day that the indulgenced work is performed; but it is sufficient that these sacred rites and prayers be carried out within several days (about 20) before or after the indulgenced act.
In both cases the language used is “more fitting” or “appropriate”.

This is what we should go by. Remember, they use very gentle language - if they say “it is highly recommended that you …” it’s usually a situation that will land you into Hell if you don’t do it (ie: " It is highly recommended that you should go to Confession if you have committed a grave sin.")

So,when they say “fitting and appropriate” keep in mind the subduedness and gentleness of their language, and realize that it means, do it that way, unless for some reason it is physically impossible.

I was just pointing out that this language seems a bit different from you language in your previous post where you said “to receive an Indulgence, you also **have to **receive Holy Communion and pray the prayers for the Pope on the same day.”

VC

Don’t go for minimalism. The text states that the normal or most fitting is to do it the same day. It isn’t possible to go to Confession every time you want to collect an Indulgence; this is the reason that one Confession suffices for all of the Indulgences received in the few days following, but (normally) it is easy to receive Holy Communion and pray the prayers for the Pope on the same day.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

So,when they say “fitting and appropriate” keep in mind the subduedness and gentleness of their language, and realize that it means, do it that way, unless for some reason it is physically impossible.

Hi jmcrae,

I understand, but this is your own interpretation of the text. You said above that you “have to”, which, frankly, is the opposite of what the Apostolic Penitentiary had in mind, no? Do you see why I pointed this out? Don’t you think you might have chosen your words differently?

Don’t go for minimalism.

I tend not to go for minimalism. I do, however, try to take great care to not lay extra burdens when none exist. It is one thing to strive to do what is fitting and appropriate, laudable and excellent. It is another to say that the only excuse not to do something is if it is physically impossible.

The text states that the normal or most fitting is to do it the same day.

Exactly. Perhaps we should leave it at that, don’t you think? I don’t think we need to say “you must, unless it is physically impossible.”

VC

 

[jmcrae]

Hi jmcrae,

I understand, but this is your own interpretation of the text. You said above that you “have to”, which, frankly, is the opposite of what the Apostolic Penitentiary had in mind, no?

I don’t think so, given that they “recommend” things that are absolutely required for staying out of Hell.

But we’ll agree to disagree.