Are Lay Ministries hurting priestly vocations

[John_Higgins]

FYI, here’s a link to the Bishop Finn article:

NC Reporter Article

John

 

[Ockham]

The US priesthood is riddled with scandal. Those that weren’t caught in the child abuse scandal still have done plenty to hurt the dignity of the priesthood.

In my diocese, there have been child pornography scandals and multiple embezzlement cases. When pastors start naming parish halls after themselves, while they are pastor, you have a problem.

I have friends who are priests, but I have to say that I wonder what they do in private. That’s a terrible thing to say, but I’m being honest.

The percentage of pediphilia among Catholic clergy is the same as any other religious organization, considerably smaller than schools with the highest incident rate being in the home. While utterly tragic, the Catholic priest pedophile scandal was biased media sensationalism.

Also keep in mind many of the ‘victims’ were in their teens at the time. I don’t know about anyone else, but there’s no way I could have been seduced or tricked into a homosexual encounter at that age. I suspect these accounts had more to do with pay-outs then healing.

 

[withwind]

I can only speak from my own experience to the question: Are Lay Ministries hurting priestly vocations?

I have been an EMHC for nearly 2 years and I visit Nursing Home. Part of this ministry really has great influence on me for applying to seminary.

 

[Ockham]

Oh, I’m sorry, didn’t know the statistics were out there on the “fullness” of the SSPX or FSSP and the closings of the NO seminaries. Where did you find them, I’d like to read them?

fssp.org/en/chiffres.htm

Priests: 208
Seminarians: 128
Av. Age: 37

Please let me know of any “non-traditional” orders with similar or better ratio, average age.

 

[PJM]

** Re: Are Lay Ministries hurting priestly vocations **

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Originally Posted by bkovacs
Yep

REPLY:
Is this your personal opinion or are there actual stats on this somewhere.?

Google “CARA Reports”

PEW reports state that less than 25% of Catholics regullary attend Sunday and Holyday Mass, and only about 10% go to Confession even once a year.

In 1965 These numbers were about 75% for both issues.

About HALF of Catholic Marriages end in divorce

In the last three Predsidental Elections over 50% of Catholics voted for the Pro Death Candidates.

Comparing the number of priest in 1965 to today, and again it’s about HALF!

The number of Catholics using Birth Control is unknown, but look at family size today and 50 years ago! Smaller families fewer priest!

Without doubt, the Ordinary Mass (and indeed it is!) with lay-folk doing 75% of what priest do. Reading, teaching, ministering, passing out Communion. Why would one wish to dedicate ones life to the priesthood? Just let the laity do it!

No, No, NO! We must restore piety and holiness to the Once Sacred Liturgy. Only a priest can make CHRIST PRESENT! No priest = No Christ = NO Catholic Church!

For centuries Priest gave themselves fully, completely, willingly, lovingly, sellessly as a HUMAN SACRIFICE to and for Christ and His Church. They did not fear personal sacrifice, suffering for Christ. That is what drew them to ORDERS! And many, MANY answered the call! It’s not the same anymore. Now its all about community, us, we are the church? Phooy! We are, members of Christ Church!

**
We are the Church Militant, we are God’s children, but the Mass is first and foremost a Sacrifice, and about God… we must allow it to be so,**

 

[PaulinVA]

Also keep in mind many of the ‘victims’ were in their teens at the time. I don’t know about anyone else, but there’s no way I could have been seduced or tricked into a homosexual encounter at that age. I suspect these accounts had more to do with pay-outs then healing.

SHAME ON YOU!!

Imagine yourself as a child of the sixties, taught that the Priest was everything and could do no wrong. Anything he did was to save your soul.

Now, imagine yourself in that situation.

This is what you want to go back to?

 

[VJCadarr]

The US priesthood is riddled with scandal. Those that weren’t caught in the child abuse scandal still have done plenty to hurt the dignity of the priesthood.

In my diocese, there have been child pornography scandals and multiple embezzlement cases. When pastors start naming parish halls after themselves, while they are pastor, you have a problem.

I have friends who are priests, but I have to say that I wonder what they do in private. That’s a terrible thing to say, but I’m being honest.

You are painting ALL priest’s with the same brush and that is not only unfair, it is untrue. There are a great many more priests who are true to their vows and have never desecrated the priesthood in any way. Many of you speak of the loss of dignity for the priesthood, this is the saddest and most profound loss of dignity - to be accused of something for which you are not responsible. Let’s not go down that road. I know 1 priest involved in scandal. I know a hundred more who weren’t.

Who commits the greater sin, the one who accuses someone of something they haven’t done or the innocent person who is being accused unjustly?

 

[PaulinVA]

You are painting ALL priest’s with the same brush and that is not only unfair, it is untrue. There are a great many more priests who are true to their vows and have never desecrated the priesthood in any way. Many of you speak of the loss of dignity for the priesthood, this is the saddest and most profound loss of dignity - to be accused of something for which you are not responsible. Let’s not go down that road. I know 1 priest involved in scandal. I know a hundred more who weren’t.

Who commits the greater sin, the one who accuses someone of something they haven’t done or the innocent person who is being accused unjustly?

I was not accusing any one individual of anything. The thread is about priestly vocations, and the specific posts were about the dignity of the priesthood. I said that, overall, the dignity of the priesthood has been affected by the scandals, and that is why vocations are down.

 

[Ockham]

SHAME ON YOU!!

Imagine yourself as a child of the sixties, taught that the Priest was everything and could do no wrong. Anything he did was to save your soul.

Now, imagine yourself in that situation.

This is what you want to go back to?

Shame on me? Shame on you for not standing up for our priests and our Church. Of course there were sins committed and some true victims exist, but those incidences are greatly lower than in the school system. Are you equally offended by teacher’s abuses?

And shame on you for painting our clergy with the brush of a small group. The vast majority of priests are dedicated and holy men. Even those not caught by scandal have hurt the Church in your jadded eyes. Perhaps that wooden beam is affecting your vision.

 

[PaulinVA]

Shame on me? Shame on you for not standing up for our priests and our Church. Of course there were sins committed and some true victims exist, but those incidences are greatly lower than in the school system. Are you equally offended by teacher’s abuses?

And shame on you for painting our clergy with the brush of a small group. The vast majority of priests are dedicated and holy men. Even those not caught by scandal have hurt the Church in your jadded eyes. Perhaps that wooden beam is affecting your vision.

Sadly, you are right. I am jaded and cynical.

The actions of a small number of priests have tarnished the priesthood. I am not saying that all priests are bad. I am saying that a small number of priests have tarnished the priesthood, and that vocations have suffered. You have to agree with that, no?

 

[Califman831]

The question still remains why wern’t those offending priests weeded out earlier? Was this an effort by catholic liberals who wish to destroy the priesthood and establish a new era?

 

[VJCadarr]

Originally Posted by PaulinVA
The US priesthood is riddled with scandal. Those that weren’t caught in the child abuse scandal still have done plenty to hurt the dignity of the priesthood.

In my diocese, there have been child pornography scandals and multiple embezzlement cases. When pastors start naming parish halls after themselves, while they are pastor, you have a problem.

I have friends who are priests, but I have to say that I wonder what they do in private. That’s a terrible thing to say, but I’m being honest.

I do believe that, in a lot of people’s minds, all priests are guilty - even when found innocent. And your comment that you wonder what the priests are doing in private casts dispersions on all priests - whether or not you menat it that way. I am NOT criticizing you, I am trying to point out the fact that, through no fault of their own, too many priests are being branded because the misconception is that “birds of a feather…”

 

[Ockham]

There is a significantly higher incident rate of sex abuse in schools than in church. Does the media report this fact? Are all teachers potential child abusers? Why do the courts let pedophiles walk among us?

Media outlets like the Boston Globe blew priest accused sex abuse stories into a scandal. I’m sure they sold a lot of papers doing it. When we fail to think for ourselves, critically examine information and make prejudicial conclusions we commit our own sins. Study the ninth commandment

 

[VJCadarr]

There is a significantly higher incident rate of sex abuse in schools than in church. Does the media report this fact? Are all teachers potential child abusers? Why do the courts let pedophiles walk among us?

Media outlets like the Boston Globe blew priest accused sex abuse stories into a scandal. I’m sure they sold a lot of papers doing it. When we fail to think for ourselves, critically examine information and make prejudicial conclusions we commit our own sins. Study the ninth commandment

**

AMEN!**

 

[PaulinVA]

There is a significantly higher incident rate of sex abuse in schools than in church. Does the media report this fact? Are all teachers potential child abusers? Why do the courts let pedophiles walk among us?

Media outlets like the Boston Globe blew priest accused sex abuse stories into a scandal. I’m sure they sold a lot of papers doing it. When we fail to think for ourselves, critically examine information and make prejudicial conclusions we commit our own sins. Study the ninth commandment

Ockham, in all the Christian charity I can muster, I have to say that I did not mean for the thread to veer off the way it did into this subject area. I just mentioned that I thought the abuse scandals are a reason for a decline in vocations.

But, to blame the Boston Globe for creating scandal out of the horrible things that some of the ordained in this church have committed in the past forty years is not placing the blame where it belongs. The scandal belongs to the Priests who committed the acts and the Bishops who protected them.

You can think that I am disloyal to the Church - I am not. I deal in facts, and the facts in this area are unfortunate.

 

[Ockham]

Paul, please give this article a read and let me know how much information is news.

legalaffairs.org/issues/September-October-2004/feature_wypijewski_sepoct04.msp

 

[PaulinVA]

Paul, please give this article a read and let me know how much information is news.

legalaffairs.org/issues/September-October-2004/feature_wypijewski_sepoct04.msp

In terms of, "Have I heard this before?’, yes I have read similar things. I, too, have issues with the ‘recovered memories’ of some.

Right now, the Jesuits are defending themselves against accusations that they “dumped” pedophile priests in Alaska for decades. One deacon is accused of molested every child in two remote villages over a ten year period.

One or two accusations is something to possibly discount. However, I remember in the seventies and eighties when there were whispers about priests being “in trouble” and moved around from parish to parish. A priest at my childhood parish, whom I knew, was accused and admitted to molesting altar boys.

My knowledge of the scandals comes from decades of paying attention, not just from reading a few newspaper stories.

The scandal breaks my heart. I am so sorry that this was allowed to happen.

 

[LRThunder]

In terms of, "Have I heard this before?’, yes I have read similar things. I, too, have issues with the ‘recovered memories’ of some.

Right now, the Jesuits are defending themselves against accusations that they “dumped” pedophile priests in Alaska for decades. One deacon is accused of molested every child in two remote villages over a ten year period.

One or two accusations is something to possibly discount. However, I remember in the seventies and eighties when there were whispers about priests being “in trouble” and moved around from parish to parish. A priest at my childhood parish, whom I knew, was accused and admitted to molesting altar boys.

My knowledge of the scandals comes from decades of paying attention, not just from reading a few newspaper stories.

The scandal breaks my heart. I am so sorry that this was allowed to happen.

But here is the worst part of the scandal: accusations have now been regarded on the same level as convictions. Last I checked, the accused were innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Ockham]

The ‘scandal’ breaks every Catholic heart. One account I’ve heard is that the heirarchy honestly thought such behaviour was a reaction to stress and a six month sebatical and transfer was the cure. Absurd? Of course. However, throughout history equally bizarre remedies have been trusted (i.e. leeching).

Without ducking responsiblity for the actual abuses that occured, I point out again that the incident rates in our church are no higher than any other. The public school system has a much higher rate. Do we condemn all teachers? Pull our children from their schools? Renew our subscription to the Boston Globe to read the latest Pulitzer Prize account?

The Church has enemies. If a major U.S. television show like Law & Order, CSI, etc, portrays a priest in a positive light please let me know. With an continual barrage of anti-Church propaganda it is understandable how even the faithful have come to view this issue through the iconoclast’s lens.

 

[PaulinVA]

The ‘scandal’ breaks every Catholic heart. One account I’ve heard is that the heirarchy honestly thought such behaviour was a reaction to stress and a six month sebatical and transfer was the cure. Absurd? Of course. However, throughout history equally bizarre remedies have been trusted (i.e. leeching).

Yes, I know. After the first round of recidivism, the Bishops should have figured it out. The laity knew, but we couldn’t do anything about it

Without ducking responsiblity for the actual abuses that occured, I point out again that the incident rates in our church are no higher than any other. The public school system has a much higher rate. Do we condemn all teachers? Pull our children from their schools? Renew our subscription to the Boston Globe to read the latest Pulitzer Prize account?

As the Church that sets itself above all others, being as bad as the others is not acceptable.

The Church has enemies. If a major U.S. television show like Law & Order, CSI, etc, portrays a priest in a positive light please let me know. With an continual barrage of anti-Church propaganda it is understandable how even the faithful have come to view this issue through the iconoclast’s lens.

Well, I try to be faithful. I am a little on the cynical side, though. I fully and firmly believe that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church on Earth.