Are Lay Ministries hurting priestly vocations

[CradleCath]

I fail to see how driving the few clergy we have into utter exhaustion is going to improve their morale. There are not enough priests to get all this work done by themselves.

As far as “some (not all) who embrace these ministries are totally against the Latin Mass”, that cuts both ways. There is a lot of work to be done, and those who do it get kind of tired of hearing “why isn’t the pastor doing this?” Because the pastor is only one man and there are only 24 hours in a day, that’s why.

I find it really strange that you think that people who like the Latin Mass “don’t want to do the actual WORK that needs doing”?

If you have these priests you want hidden in a closet somewhere, by all means, cough them up.

They’re in Lincoln, Ne.

 

[CradleCath]

What I say here is NOT to be taken as a diminution of the priestly or religious vocation, but don’t forget that the Laity–LAOS–is an order in the Church as well, to which one is admitted by Baptism and Confirmation.

And there is more to the vocation of the laity than being passive or simply praying, paying, and obeying.

The duty of the clergy is to prepare the holy people of God for ministry.

Actually, I think the first duty of a priest is to help the people in his parish to spend eternity with God.

 

[CradleCath]

well, I think it depend on what kind of ministry, like I don’t think an adult bible study led by laypeople hurt vocations. But I do think EMs and the emphasis on lay “participation” helped deconstruct what is the purpose of the sacrificial priesthood. Today, many priests talk about the priesthood of the believers and never about the need and importance of the priestly life (let alone private devotions, family prayer, the liturgical readings and other things to help strengthen faith, **this past sundays homily at my Church was a Deacon reading from Chicken Soup for the Soul). **And you throw this on top of a culture where sex is expected and celibacy is lambasted as foolish, medieval and silly, you can expect priestly vocations to drop.

That is so sad!!!

 

[CradleCath]

I agree that certain things can only be done by priests or deacons, but I do not agree with the opinions expressed in this thread.
I mean, sure, Mass should be done by a priest, visiting the sick, etc. but the laity is also very important in the Church.
While I would love to see more priests around, I would also love if more catholics took some time and joined different catholic groups, ministries or whatever.

In my opinion, being a catholic is more than just going to Mass every week and living the catholic lifestyle. It’s also about helping others as much as possible and convenient. Everyone who can, should take part in projects such as Youth Groups, RCIA, etc. since it offers a means for the parish to come closer together, and for people to devote more time to God.

I also agree that parents should be involved in Youth Groups when needed & invited. Of course, the lay sponsors of the RCIA candidates should attend all sessions. However, having members of the laity TEACH the candidates has not proven successful.

It was quite strange in my previous parish. I worked in the kitchen of our “House of Bread”, actually fixing food & serving the poor & homeless, some of whom were alcoholics & drug abusers, some were people with mental problems who didn’t understand their need for medicine, some women raising 3-4 children alone, etc., etc. There were three of us who did this & we could NEVER get enough help, even on holidays. However, people were lined up to be EEM’s & Lectors. It seemed as if the “up-front” positions were favorites, while no one “had time” to mix with the “rabble”. Women most often volunteered…yet, we had not **one **woman from our parish become a nun during the 20 yrs. I spent there.

 

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy;4792839:

I fail to see how driving the few clergy we have into utter exhaustion is going to improve their morale. There are not enough priests to get all this work done by themselves.

As far as “some (not all) who embrace these ministries are totally against the Latin Mass”, that cuts both ways. There is a lot of work to be done, and those who do it get kind of tired of hearing “why isn’t the pastor doing this?” Because the pastor is only one man and there are only 24 hours in a day, that’s why.

I find it really strange that you think that people who like the Latin Mass “don’t want to do the actual WORK that needs doing”?

If you have these priests you want hidden in a closet somewhere, by all means, cough them up.

They’re in Lincoln, Ne.

Better be quiet, then! If it gets out that your bishop is hiding an excess of priests whose first language is English, you won’t have them for long!

Let me explain the “work that actually needs doing” comment. I’m referring to people who think the pastor ought to be “doing it all” from heading up the preparation of the financial reports to RCIA to heading every Bible study personally to showing up for all the parish school’s basketball games.* There is barely a priest alive who can possibly do even half of everything his parishioners want him to be doing!*

And yes, it gets pretty tiring, when you were asked to commit to do something like take Holy Communion to a local hospital on a regular basis, to have people complain that the priest ought to be doing it…and this…and this…and this. And, by the way, if we would just let him be the priest and not allow him to accept any of the help that Father So-and-So never needed in 1952, then his morale would be a lot higher! Yeah, right. Let’s just say that these are not people that have asked MY pastor what is and is not a wet towel to his morale.

My pastor’s morale is *not *raised by people who imply that if he were a really good priest, he’d want to do everything without help from anyone. That if he were a really good priest, he’d love Latin. If he were a really good priest, he’d always sing the Eucharistic prayer. If he were a really good priest, he wouldn’t think of hearing confessions outside a box. If he were a really good priest…and the list goes on and on. And on and on and on. Everybody just has that one or two little things he needs to do to be a really good priest. Oh, and don’t forget the non-traditionals, who think he’d be so much better if he did just the opposite! Yes, he can ignore it, but it adds up. (Ever get that funny feeling you’re being watched? All of the time?)

His morale is raised by people who ask what they can do and where they can serve. His morale is raised by people who have some sympathy for what the sexual abuse scandal has done to the innocent priests. His morale is raised when people appreciate what he does do, when they participate fully at Mass and don’t meet him outside the door with complaints, when the line for confession is so long he has to come back and hear some more after Mass. It is raised when they treat him as a man with a high calling that deserves respect, but as a man all the same, someone with a sense of humor, idiosyncrasies, a normal human need for rest and recreation, and feelings that can be hurt, just like anyone else, when they can cope with the idea that a person can be bridegroom of the Church and also just a guy.

His morale is raised when people are thrilled about new seminarians, when they are willing to pray for vocations and encourage their children into the religious life, when they don’t show up as late and leave as early for Mass as humanly possible, and when they are regularly seen on the parish grounds between one Sunday and the next.

OTOH, he doesn’t have all that all of the time, but he loves being a priest all the same. He is a really good priest. A really, really, good one. And he doesn’t find his priesthood one bit threatened or diminished by having EMsHC. Go figure, but he is not the least bit confused who the one priest is in our parish, and neither is anyone else. I guess all priests aren’t the same, huh?

 

[Mike51]

The only problem I have with Extra Ordinary Eucharistic Ministers is that in some parishes, the privilege is abused. I’ve seen a Celebrant take a seat while Ministers were distributing Holy Communion…

 

[puzzleannie]

there is a vocations shortage in the Church in most first world countries because two generations of Catholics have contracepted two generations of priests and sisters out of existence.

Maybe Altar Boys should have been the first to become EMHCs, instead of the laity. Then they would have had a better look at what it is like to be a priest

I am guessing this suggestion comes from someone who has never trained grade school aged boys to be servers

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

From the words of St Thomas Aquinas. Summa Theologica

Question 82 Article 3.

“The dispensing of Christ’s body belongs to the priest for three reasons. First, because, as was said above (A[1]), he consecrates as in the person of Christ. But as Christ consecrated His body at the supper, so also He gave it to others to be partaken of by them. Accordingly, as the consecration of Christ’s body belongs to the priest, so likewise does the dispensing belong to him. Secondly, because the priest is the appointed intermediary between God and the people; hence as it belongs to him to offer the people’s gifts to God, so it belongs to him to deliver consecrated gifts to the people. Thirdly, because out of reverence towards this sacrament, nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament. Hence it is not lawful for anyone else to touch it except from necessity, for instance, if it were to fall upon the ground, or else in some other case of urgency.”

Previous poster said “Is the priest a sacrament dispenser.”

Are you going to argue with St Thomas?.

Read: “Is the priest merely a sacrament dispenser?” The point of the post is that priests are not simply the “functionaries” we need to “make” the Eucharist or wipe away sins but that even their non-sacramental duties are bound up with their vocation, orders, and consequent position within the household of God. Priesthood is not functional but ontological. Thus when people begin to get the impression that all priests are really good for is performing certain functions (like “anyone is theoretically capable of learning how to fix a leak but we’re required to get a licensed plumber for this one”), people can be turned off from the true priesthood which is an ontological reality far beyond the sum of functions to which a priest might find himself assigned.

 

[Mike51]

Thanks for sharing that.

 

[CradleCath]

That is my family and I am forcing my son to consider the priesthood, as I am forcing him to think how he would be as a husband and father, as I am forcing him to consider becoming a writer, as I am forcing him to consider becoming a scientist.

I am his father and I can see the multiple gifts that he has received. It is my job to force him to consider the use of those gifts; however I should refrain from forcing him into a vocation or job.

He knows that my expectations from him are: to be a good Christian, a well educated one, and always to try his best. After that it is his life, not mine.

**I made it clear with all the boys in my catechism class that the must consider the holy orders as a possible vocation, not that they must apply for seminar. As men we have an obligation to be open minded to valid ideas, but we not not have to do everything just because they are good ideas./**QUOTE]

That is wonderful. In some of the Orthodox Catholic Churches, the priest & the laity choose a few young men in the parish whose holiness & faith are outstanding & tell them to **really **consider the priesthood.

 

[I_Believe]

Well, of course altar boys are laity, too, and most aren’t fully initiated. I think EMsHC have to be chosen from confirmed Catholics in good standing with the Church, so the altar “boys” would have to all be young men in high school, at least.

Hi Joysong, When do we become fully initiated ?

I received the first 4 Sacraments by age 7 or 8. Has it changed ?

 

[Tsuwano]

What I say here is NOT to be taken as a diminution of the priestly or religious vocation, but don’t forget that the Laity–LAOS–is an order in the Church as well, to which one is admitted by Baptism and Confirmation.

And there is more to the vocation of the laity than being passive or simply praying, paying, and obeying.

The duty of the clergy is to prepare the holy people of God for ministry.

Well said! Lay ministry does not detract from priestly ministry any more than being a surgeon detracts from nursing. They are two different vocations. A religious brother is a brother because that is what he is called to by the Lord. The same can be said of a religious sister or the average person from the pew who helps the priest during the liturgy. They are not called to the priesthood. How does one’s faithfullness to his or her vocation hurt the priestly ministry? Are not all called by the same Spirit?

 

[Tsuwano]

Maybe Altar Boys should have been the first to become EMHCs, instead of the laity. Then they would have had a better look at what it is like to be a priest.

Altar boys are members of the laity.

 

[Tsuwano]

Yes and no!

If the lay ministers are thriving for holiness, are humble and show complete submission and respect to the priest in order to allow him to lead us then I would say that these people create an environment where new vocations will be fostered.

If the lay ministers end up to do what they want, if they are saying derogatory things about the priests and Bishops, and if the make their own pop theology on the fly, then we have a problem with fostering vocations.

From my experience I see that a priest will always support a family that is involved in the parish ministries to truly achieve holiness, because their example will force their boys to consider the priesthood.

In my parish I have seen both kinds and I cringe when I see people that choose to ignore proper behaviors. My boy is still attracted to the idea of the priesthood; however when he sees bad behaviors he becomes skeptical of the parish life and Catholic school. It is my duty and my wife’s duty to keep serving and show that we are there not to replace the priest but to enable him in taking pastoral care of 1000’s of people.

I think that lay ministers should be required to go to adoration and receive spiritual direction in a regular way if they feel that they are called to serve. It is not matter of us serving, it is matter of us showing the highest regard for the holy orders.

Do you think that my son will consider the priesthood nothing special because sometime I am called to distribute communion? Or do you think that he will be attracted to the priesthood if his parents are willing to sacrifice their own convenience to help the priest in whatever he needs because he is in persona Christi?

As someone else has already noted, this is a very good post. We do need to have better education for those who are involved in lay ministry. One way to do this would be to initiate courses for lay ministers in seminaries so that both the laity and the clergy would learn about the vocations each is called to and would be able to establish relationships that would carry on throughout their ministerial lives. But just as candidates for the priesthood must undergo training and various kinds of examinations before they are considered fit for the vocation, so should lay ministerial candidates undergo the same training and examination.

 

[Joannm]

As someone else has already noted, this is a very good post. We do need to have better education for those who are involved in lay ministry. One way to do this would be to initiate courses for lay ministers in seminaries so that both the laity and the clergy would learn about the vocations each is called to and would be able to establish relationships that would carry on throughout their ministerial lives. But just as candidates for the priesthood must undergo training and various kinds of examinations before they are considered fit for the vocation, so should lay ministerial candidates undergo the same training and examination.

Many dioceses do have courses for lay ministry. I am on the faculty of the program in our diocese. The problem is that it is expensive and most pastors do not have the funds to send people to them. Also it is a time commitment. One evening a week for two years plus five weekends. For people with a family and a regular job that is quite a burden. Yes we have had well over 1,000 people go through the program and they are well formed theologically and spiritually. All our potential EMHC’s go through diocesan training which is only given twice a year. You cannot serve wtihout attending. Catechists are supposed to receive certification, but that is like pulling teeth to get them to go to classes. Most of our catechists are young mothers who just don’t have the time or ability to teach CCD and attend classess. But if we don’t have them teach, even without certification, then we have no one to teach.

Most of the people who attend these programs or who are involved in ministry in parishes are already married, so I don’t see how they hinder vocations, as they made their vocational choice long before they entered any kind of parish ministry.

 

[KingAlfred]

An article decrying the lack of priestly vocations in San Diego says:

Father Feinberg believes that reversing low priestly morale would encourage vocations. “Promote the dignity of the priesthood and stop undermining the authority of the clergy. I would also curtail many of the lay ministries that are replacing priests – things in the parish such as visiting the sick, instructing the converts, and administering the sacraments. If you undermine the clergy, how can you promote the priesthood?”

sdnewsnotes.com/ed/articles/2006/0604rk.htm

I’m not a fan of all of the lay ministries that one finds in the Church today. Before Vatican II & the mass exodus of our clergy & religious, these duties were performed by the priests themselves. At that time, my own parish had 3 priests &, usually in addition to those, there were Seminarians that came to help during Holy Week, etc.

I have also noticed that some (not all) who embrace these ministries are totally against the Latin Mass. This is just my “take” on the situation. Can some of you share with me how you feel about Vocation Directors, parish secretaries, RICA educators, EEM’s, Liturgists, etc., etc. who are paid employees (volunteers) of the Church. And what do you think that does to vocations?? I remember well how relieved I was when my Father was dying & the Pastor of the Church came for the Last Rites. He, at age 76, would not have felt comfortable if they had sent an EEM & he was simply administered the Eucharist this often happens.

If we want Catholicism to survive, we must compensate for the dire lack of priests through lay ministers. We can’t have it both ways – no priests, no lay ministers. And then there’s the sad fact that our priesthood is overpopulated with homosexuals. All told, it’s simply a bad state of affairs and somewhat of an embarassment.

 

[CradleCath]

Well said! Lay ministry does not detract from priestly ministry any more than being a surgeon detracts from nursing.

That is pretty much a red herring. If 90% of those studying medicine suddenly decided that they preferred nursing to becoming a surgeon, we’d have to ask ourselves why & actually try to do something about it. If not, there would be a terrible shortage of surgeons.

They are two different vocations. A religious brother is a brother because that is what he is called to by the Lord. The same can be said of a religious sister or the average person from the pew who helps the priest during the liturgy. They are not called to the priesthood.

 

[Joannm]

I also believe that when some

 

[Cristiano]

I also believe that when some men, called to the priesthood, are given the choice between the ordained priesthood & one of the numerous lay apostolates…Benedictine Oblates, Secular Franciscans, since “sometime priest” Thomas Merton’s Seven Story Mountain we even have hermits, once again… they take the easier way & in some diocese are directed toward the easier way. Just think, they have a title within the Church without having to practice celibacy, live in the unmarried state, give up having children, etc.

PS. This post is not directed at the person I’ve quoted. It’s just a general statement of my thoughts.

Come on, give me a break! What kind of Church titles are EMHC, reader, husher? Are they really important in today’s Catholic society? They are just temporary labels that define the type of service that someone provides. If someone looks at it as an honorable title, then he is a loser, the service itself is honorable not the title.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am trying to find answers to the priesthood shorage, and yes, I’m a member of our local Serra club. We pray for vocations…which is & should be our first resource. However, to take it any farther than prayer, to take our would-be priests to the next level…takes the co-operation of good, orthodox priests & bishops…

Our chapter prays for vocations, but it does much more than pray.

We affirm priestly and religious vocations by having annual appreciation events for priests, religious, and the families of seminarians going through formation in our diocese. We raise money for the seminary in our archdiocese. We see to our own on-going education and formation as Catholics, as a group which shares a common purpose.

We work on projects, such as finding ways to keep college kids connected to the practice of their faith when they leave home for the first time, such as encouraging parishes to form vocation committees that encourage prayer for and openness to vocations at the most local level, such as notifying and supplying materials to vocation committees and directors of religious education for observance of national vocation awareness days, such as sponsoring and helping with vocation-awareness events aimed at grade school children and high schoolers (Focus 11),

If you are part of a Serra Club that is doing all of that, you’re already doing something. If not, find something and try to get some other Serrans active with you.

… Just think, they have a title within the Church without having to practice celibacy, live in the unmarried state, give up having children, etc…

That sounds like a permanent deacon, except the part about it being easy.