Are Lay Ministries hurting priestly vocations

[bkovacs]

I’ve never heard of such a study but it would certainly worth the time and effort. I also think that the Church should allow married men into the priesthood.
Any ideas why this idea is so stubbornly resisted?
I know about Paul’s dictum, but many of the apostles were married.

As someone who now goes to an Orthodox Church, I agree. A married priesthood for me would be no problem. The Orthodox have not had a problem with it at all. Both Eastern and Oriental Orthodox. As long as the monastics, and those striving to be Bishops, are not married. I like the Orthodox discipline on this. But this is only a small portion of the problems we have to priestly vocations. A lack of understanding and willing to learn and appreciate Catholic traditions before Vatican 2 is another huge problem. Some of the Orthodox who I talk to, say that one of the problems with the Catholic Church, is that it’s followers don’t understand their rich traditions, or faith. Only post Vatican 2 and secularism. And I’m not lying, when I say this.

 

[missal]

We do love our all caps in this thread don’t we. :sad_yes:

ummm about those caps…I was experimenting with the tools on this forum, and was actually surprised they popped up so large…oh well!
View attachment 5451

 

[diggerdomer]

I’ve never heard of such a study but it would certainly worth the time and effort. I also think that the Church should allow married men into the priesthood.
Any ideas why this idea is so stubbornly resisted?
I know about Paul’s dictum, but many of the apostles were married.

The Catholic Church does allow married men into the priesthood.

Although, in the* Roman* Rite, the normal discipline is only unmarried men are priests (though there are exceptions that John Paul II allowed).

 

[Ockham]

The only married priests are those who converted as Protestant ministers.

 

[diggerdomer]

The only married priests are those who converted as Protestant ministers.

Yes, sorry if I should have mentioned that and didn’t. Interesting, though, that the end result is married men can be and have been ordained to the Roman Catholic priesthood. At least I find it fascinating…I’m a cradle Catholic and had no clue of this until I was in my late 20s.

 

[CradleCath]

Yes, the conservative diocese seem to be doing well. A lot of the recently ordained in Arlington are also late vocations, which I think helps.

I’m not sure 215 seminarians who don’t have a path to licit ordination are a factor in this, but if you want to think that, go ahead.

The SSPX seminarians were included in my post simply to show that orthodoxy & conservatism draw men to the Catholic priesthood. And, who knows what the future will bring as far as the SSPX. I pray that they will be reunited with the Roman Catholic Church. Don’t you?

So, are you saying the vocations problem is only in the US diocese?

 

[PaulinVA]

PaulinVA;4977161:
The SSPX seminarians were included in my post simply to show that orthodoxy & conservatism draw men to the Catholic priesthood. And, who knows what the future will bring as far as the SSPX. I pray that they will be reunited with the Roman Catholic Church. Don’t you?

Well, I hope everybody ends up united with the Catholic Church.

 

[Malkin71]

Yes. They are. I admit, I am a Lector at my Parish. I am also a member of The Pittsburgh Latin Mass Community. At my Parish I have seen the overuse of Lay Ministers, E.M.H.C. and Altar girls/women. there. When I was trained as a Altar Boy I was trained to be respectful, I.E. Genuflect towards the Tabernacle and hold the Patent and the Missal properly. Now seeing the E.M.H.C.'s run to the Tabernacle at the begining of “Agnus Dei” and standing there Until they recieve Holy Communion. Truthfully I would give up being a lector If they would abolish the Lay ministeries. That is why I enjoy going to the E.F. . If the Holy Father would mandate that all Masses should be like how they are said on E.W.T.N. I would enjoy going to both forms.

 

[diggerdomer]

Yes. They are. I admit, I am a Lector at my Parish. I am also a member of The Pittsburgh Latin Mass Community. At my Parish I have seen the overuse of Lay Ministers, E.M.H.C. and Altar girls/women. there. When I was trained as a Altar Boy I was trained to be respectful, I.E. Genuflect towards the Tabernacle and hold the Patent and the Missal properly. Now seeing the E.M.H.C.'s run to the Tabernacle at the begining of “Agnus Dei” and standing there Until they recieve Holy Communion. Truthfully I would give up being a lector If they would abolish the Lay ministeries. That is why I enjoy going to the E.F. . If the Holy Father would mandate that all Masses should be like how they are said on E.W.T.N. I would enjoy going to both forms.

How is it an “overuse” if your Bishop and the Magisterium of the universal Church has authorized it?

Or do you mean it’s just your opinion? (which is of course fine)

 

[Malkin71]

Also, I forgot to add it is the Priests and Bishops who let the Lay ministries hurt the vocations. Instead of standing firm and holding the line like the Saints, they followed the Pied Pipers song of Progressiveness and Modernism.

 

[diggerdomer]

Also, I forgot to add it is the Priests and Bishops who let the Lay ministries hurt the vocations. Instead of standing firm and holding the line like the Saints, they followed the Pied Pipers song of Progressiveness and Modernism.

oic. Thanks for the clarification.

So, the priests and bishops are in error. Got it. You and…who else?..know the true faith?

If you can clarify more it would really help.

 

[Malkin71]

How is it an “overuse” if your Bishop and the Magisterium of the universal Church has authorized it?

Or do you mean it’s just your opinion? (which is of course fine)

Give a inch and take a mile. Recently the Magisterium has started to pull the reigns on the E.M.H.C. by not letting them purify the sacred vessels. This is fact.

In my opinon The Lay Ministries are hurting the Priestly vocations. There is a blur between the duties of Ordinary Minister and Extra Ordinary. I haved witness E.M.H.C. think they are equal to a Priest and a Deacon. I know of one who believes the Church should be more Progressive.

When you see a Lay Minister perform Communion service giving blessings or distrubuting ashes, it makes you think and wonder.

 

[diggerdomer]

Give a inch and take a mile. Recently the Magisterium has started to pull the reigns on the E.M.H.C. by not letting them purify the sacred vessels. This is fact.

In my opinon The Lay Ministries are hurting the Priestly vocations. There is a blur between the duties of Ordinary Minister and Extra Ordinary. I haved witness E.M.H.C. think they are equal to a Priest and a Deacon. I know of one who believes the Church should be more Progressive.

When you see a Lay Minister perform Communion service giving blessings or distrubuting ashes, it makes you think and wonder.

Purifying the vessels was never a part of the EMHC responsibilities. If the Church wishes to restrict who “does the dishes” that’s fine with me.

I have only once been to a Mass where there’s been a blurring of lay and ordained ministries, and that was where a woman in an alb accompanied the priest celebrant in all actions, stood during the Eucharistic prayer, and otherwise served no other function. I was horrified. BUT…and this is my point…it had nothing to do with authorized ministries like EMHC, lector, etc. This one aberrant case I’ve experienced (in my 40+ years of being Catholic) is, I hope and pray, an isolated case. I’ve never seen it elsewhere (though obviously the fact that exists in one parish is more than dangerous enough).

There is nothing in Church teaching that restricts the dispensing of ashes on Ash Wednesday to the ordained. It’s no problem if lay ministers do it along with the ordained.

The decision to have “communion services” is up to the diocesan bishop. If the Bishop decides to allow lay ministers at a given parish to lead such approved liturgical celebrations at the specified times and places, that’s absolutely his prerogative and absolutely fine with me.

 

[Malkin71]

oic. Thanks for the clarification.

So, the priests and bishops are in error. Got it. You and…who else?..know the true faith?

If you can clarify more it would really help.

Yes. The ones who let the crisis get this far.

There are Very good Priests out there. When I attend The E.F. here in Pittsburgh Fr. Ken Myers gives powerful sermons about the nonsense that goes on in the different Parishes.

By reading the topics on this forum gives clear evidence about the current situation in the vocations. You can almost tell what side of the line they are on.

According to the rubrics of the O.F. you are allowed to have lay ministers. But, you can still have reverence by properly using them correctly, I.E. knwong their roles on when to come to the Altar or when they are not needed. Like if there are under a certan amount people at a Mass and instructing them not to open and get the Chalace from the Tabernnacle.

There is a Excellent book called “Mass Confusion” from Catholic Answers. I have it and reccomend it. And when you read it you will see.

 

[Malkin71]

Purifying the vessels was never a part of the EMHC responsibilities. If the Church wishes to restrict who “does the dishes” that’s fine with me.

I have only once been to a Mass where there’s been a blurring of lay and ordained ministries, and that was where a woman in an alb accompanied the priest celebrant in all actions, stood during the Eucharistic prayer, and otherwise served no other function. I was horrified. BUT…and this is my point…it had nothing to do with authorized ministries like EMHC, lector, etc. This one aberrant case I’ve experienced (in my 40+ years of being Catholic) is, I hope and pray, an isolated case. I’ve never seen it elsewhere (though obviously the fact that exists in one parish is more than dangerous enough).

There is nothing in Church teaching that restricts the dispensing of ashes on Ash Wednesday to the ordained. It’s no problem if lay ministers do it along with the ordained.

The decision to have “communion services” is up to the diocesan bishop. If the Bishop decides to allow lay ministers at a given parish to lead such approved liturgical celebrations at the specified times and places, that’s absolutely his prerogative and absolutely fine with me.

I am a 39 year cradle Catholic. When growing up The Priest did all those roles you mentioned above. I know of a Priest who will never allow a Communion Service in his Parish if he can not have Mass.

The More you let the Lay Ministers take over the Less vocations you have.

 

[diggerdomer]

. Like if there are under a certan amount people at a Mass and instructing them not to open and get the Chalace from the Tabernnacle.

The Roman Catholic Church has no instructions saying that the properly authorized lay ministers cannot get the consecrated hosts from the Tabernacle during Mass. If you disagree, please give us some authoritative reference (mine is the GIRM, General Instruction of the Roman Missal).

Also, again, back to my original question, if we can’t follow the bishops and priests of the Catholic Church as your message implied, who can we follow (besides you)? Please, if you have more specifics of who the “true” authorities are let us know.

 

[Malkin71]

Purifying the vessels was never a part of the EMHC responsibilities. If the Church wishes to restrict who “does the dishes” that’s fine with me.

I have only once been to a Mass where there’s been a blurring of lay and ordained ministries, and that was where a woman in an alb accompanied the priest celebrant in all actions, stood during the Eucharistic prayer, and otherwise served no other function. I was horrified. BUT…and this is my point…it had nothing to do with authorized ministries like EMHC, lector, etc. This one aberrant case I’ve experienced (in my 40+ years of being Catholic) is, I hope and pray, an isolated case. I’ve never seen it elsewhere (though obviously the fact that exists in one parish is more than dangerous enough).

There is nothing in Church teaching that restricts the dispensing of ashes on Ash Wednesday to the ordained. It’s no problem if lay ministers do it along with the ordained.

The decision to have “communion services” is up to the diocesan bishop. If the Bishop decides to allow lay ministers at a given parish to lead such approved liturgical celebrations at the specified times and places, that’s absolutely his prerogative and absolutely fine with me.

Guess what you are right about E.M.H.C. not supposed to purify the vessels. Another example of “Give an inch and take a mile”

I also believe that allowing Altar Girls/Women is also hurting vocations. I am curious. Do you agree?

 

[diggerdomer]

I am a 39 year cradle Catholic. When growing up The Priest did all those roles you mentioned above. .

Me too. But we’re in a different time, world, and Church now. Many of the things that the priests did are now done by laity. This is not a scandal, this is something the Church has authorized.

I know of a Priest who will never allow a Communion Service in his Parish if he can not have Mass…

If this occurs on a Sunday, this is a serious problem that might be directly contrary to the Church’s teaching. It is essential that Catholics gather on Sundays to worship (precept of the Church). If there’s a priest who refuses to allow such a service, he’s in direct contradiction to the Catholic faith.

The More you let the Lay Ministers take over the Less vocations you have.

I can understand, one some levels, why you might propose this. But do you have any facts to back up this claim? Just wondering. My experience has never led me to believe this. Thanks.

 

[Malkin71]

The Roman Catholic Church has no instructions saying that the properly authorized lay ministers cannot get the consecrated hosts from the Tabernacle during Mass. If you disagree, please give us some authoritative reference (mine is the GIRM, General Instruction of the Roman Missal).

Also, again, back to my original question, if we can’t follow the bishops and priests of the Catholic Church as your message implied, who can we follow (besides you)? Please, if you have more specifics of who the “true” authorities are let us know.

Yes, you can follow the Bishops and Priests. Archbishop Burke, Bishop Fulton Sheen, Frank Pavone, etc are some good men of the cloth. Click on this website.

4marks.com/group.html?group_id=11

and click on the audio section and listen to an Excellent Priest Fr. Ken Myers.

In his sermons you will hear the Truth.

P.S. Only a Ordained Minister, I.E. Bishop, Priest, Deacon can open the Tabernacle.

I will get the source.

 

[Malkin71]

Me too. But we’re in a different time, world, and Church now. Many of the things that the priests did are now done by laity. This is not a scandal, this is something the Church has authorized.

The Church does not change. That is the sin of Modernism. If you belive what you said do you believe the church should change its stance on Abortion, Homosexuality and allowing women to be Priests?

If this occurs on a Sunday, this is a serious problem that might be directly contrary to the Church’s teaching. It is essential that Catholics gather on Sundays to worship (precept of the Church). If there’s a priest who refuses to allow such a service, he’s in direct contradiction to the Catholic faith.

It is late at night. I mean during the weekday morning Mass. He would never allow that. If he can not be there He has a Priest fill in.

I can understand, one some levels, why you might propose this. But do you have any facts to back up this claim? Just wondering. My experience has never led me to believe this. Thanks.

Sorry for writing in the wrong place.

The Church does not change. That is the sin of Modernism. If you belive what you said do you believe the church should change its stance on Abortion, Homosexuality and allowing women to be Priests?

It is late at night. I mean during the weekday morning Mass. He would never allow that. If he can not be there He has a Priest fill in.