Are LDS Protestants or are they separate?

[AMDGtoo]

Then what did Paul mean, when he wrote that Christ would not com again until after a falling away happened?

There was a falling away. It’s in John 6:66 (gee, note the 666–what a coincidence–off topic, sorry). I guess Jesus can come anytime–“like a thief in the night”.

 

[hosemonkey]

How can you say something so stupid and so heretical? The Bible has either always existed or it is trash , read it sometime.

Then you are guilty of regarding the Bible as trash. Shame on you.

No where in the Bible is Rome , a city named after a pagan love goddess, mentioned as anything but a historical place.

The Church is the pillar of Truth, not the Bible.

I too, am more than 50 years old, and in your case, age has not necessarily given you wisdom nor knowlege

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

How can you say something so stupid and so heretical? The Bible has either always existed or it is trash , read it sometime.

Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Wow I didn’t know the Bible in your hands dropped out of the sky all ready to go! You mean the Bible was there before the creation of the earth? And man?

No where in the Bible is Rome , a city named after a pagan love goddess, mentioned as anything but a historical place. We have the Dead Sea Scrolls which were written 150 years before Christ and they were copies of scripture that date back 1500 years before Christ. To say the RCC wrote the Bible is as convincing as the visions of Smith and Mohammad…

You simply don’t understand. The Catholic Church doesn’t claim to have written the Bible. It *compiled it *into the form you have now. Who put all those manuscripts together so nice and neat for you? Who put chapters and verses to them? Did you do it? Did Luther do it?

You are dishonestly misrepresenting Luther. Yes it was Catholic Monks that helped preserve the Bible. Luther was a Catholic Monk but in no way did he credit the RCC with its existence in the first place. It existed long before the RCC did and Luther made it plain the story of Peter being the leader of the Church and having descendants was a lie from hell. You expose yourself by these statements as a yes person. I seriously doubt you have spent 10 minutes reading the V2. the councils o much less Luther.

It wasn’t just preservation, Frank. The Church compiled it. Show some proof that Luther believed the Bible fell from Heaven instead of compiled by the Roman Catholic Church. So, since you speak so highly of Luther, does that mean you are Lutheran? Or are you Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ, Church of God or…? There’s so many. Just wondering.

The Bible is the word of God, not the RCC.

Actually, the word of God is what is revealed by Him as being true, whether in written or spoken form.

 

[Frank_Cox]

The Church is the pillar of Truth, not the Bible.

I too, am more than 50 years old, and in your case, age has not necessarily given you wisdom nor knowlege

Well Einstein where does it mention the Church of the fertility goddess Roma is the church? And just because the church, the body of believers is referred to as the pillar of truth does not overrule the Bibles claim , and the claim of Jesus Christ that it is the very word of God.

You are calling the Bible a pack of lies and Jesus as well to justify a man made money making organization that has usurped the power of God in the eyes of its victims.

 

[truthsilence]

They are justified by you statements, they are observations, not assumptions.
That is a stupid argument. The church is not a building or an organization . The Bible teaches the priesthood of the believer .The Bible never mentions the Roman Catholic Church, it never indicates Peter ever went to Rome much less was a Bishop of Rome , that there ever was a Bishop of Rome . This whole fairy tale should have been trash canned with the exposure of the greatest fraud in the history of the world the RCC perpetrated. The False Decretals.

Amen to AMDGtoo and Hosemonkeys’ comments.

Frank, tell us what happened between Jesus and the apostles, and the reformation? Just hundreds of years of apostacy?

Where have we heard that before? …

hint: check the title of this thread

The problem with all the personal interpretations of the Bible going on since the reformation is that you’ve got thousands upon thousands of differing opinions and everyone believes their own is the right one.

In other words, your version of what the Bible says, most likely exists only inside your own head. You have no history or sacred tradition to back up that version. No apostolic teaching to safeguard the faith. You’re on your own, and that is not what Jesus intended when He established His church.

Peace,
Tami

 

[Frank_Cox]

Amen to AMDGtoo and Hosemonkeys’ comments.

Frank, tell us what happened between Jesus and the apostles, and the reformation? Just hundreds of years of apostacy?

Your question implies the RCC existed at the time of Jesus but the only record that states that was written by the greatest forgers in human history, the RCC. Why is there no indication in the Bible that there was a Bishop of Rome or that Peter ever went there? Show me from the Bible , I do not believe liars and the RCC admitted they forged the Credetals ,they admitted they are liars, world record holders. .
Have you ever read the Bible? The Jews had God part the Red Sea in front of their eyes and fed them for 40 years in the desert and made their clothes last the whole time, knocked down whole cites , stopped the Jordon from flowing etc. etc. and they could not go 2 weeks with out apostasy, why do think the Christians have greater faith? We are by nature evil, of course there was apostasy. God does not change but the RCC of today is nothing like it was before, they constantly rewrite dogma.

Where have we heard that before? …

hint: check the title of this thread

What? The LDS are not Christian, even according to the RCC so how could they be Protestant? Not to mention the Reformation was in the 16th century, not the 19th.

The problem with all the personal interpretations of the Bible going on since the reformation is that you’ve got thousands upon thousands of differing opinions and everyone believes their own is the right one.

‘’

The problem is the apostasy of the whole church that gave up Biblical authority to materialist in the 19th century.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

In other words, your version of what the Bible says, most likely exists only inside your own head. You have no history or sacred tradition to back up that version. No apostolic teaching to safeguard the faith. You’re on your own, and that is not what Jesus intended when He established His church.

Peace,
Tami

You only have the history given to you by the authors of the greatest forgery the world has ever known . My ancestors never kowtowed to Rome and millions died for it. By your logic the Greek Orthodox never existed.
I have all the apostolic teaching, it is in the Bible.

You keep making grand statements but you are nothing but hot air. Unless you can show where the Bible says that Peter ever even went to Rome , let alone that there was a Bishop of Rome then or that he was the top dog or would have descendants then all you have are legend from a group who admitted they are the biggest frauds in world history.

You claim to speak for Jesus and then call Him a liar about Biblical authority, brilliant .

 

[hosemonkey]

My ancestors never kowtowed to Rome and millions died for it.

Your ancestors were probably Scotch-Irish, and Frank, I hate to break the news to you, but they were most likely Catholic. Unless they were Pagan. Millions, Frank? Millions of who, Frank? Do you mean all the “Bible Christians” who were killed by the “Spanish Inquisition”? Check your facts Frank, If you believe the anti-Catholics, the Inquisition would have had to kill the entire population of Europe and half of China. Big Job. The Protestant “reformers” most likely killed many more. Frank, in all charity, you come across as a poster boy for Jack Chick or John Hagee. It just makes you look ignorant. BTW, in checking your profile, what denomination is “Chistian”? Never encountered that one before.

 

[StevenFrancis]

This always made me wonder if the Latter-Day Saints are Protestants. In my opinion they are not…

It is my understanding that LDS are not in communion with the Church. Their understanding of Jesus Christ and Trinity would be considered heretical, and they would not be Christian. Excellent set of values and morals, and lovely teachings on family and belonging. But as to your question, they are not Protestant, Catholic or trinitarian to my knowledge. I know that their baptism is not valid in the Church.

Peace,

Steven

 

[1holycatholic]

Wow I didn’t know the Bible in your hands dropped out of the sky all ready to go! You mean the Bible was there before the creation of the earth? And man?

:whacky:

 

[AMDGtoo]

Gosh you really need to get out more–perhaps to a library.

Your question implies the RCC existed at the time of Jesus

Yes, Jesus said that He would He would build His Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18) Hmm–what Church would that be? Why the only one that Jesus did found–the Catholic Church. In Acts it is called “Christian”, and in the 87 A.D. document, the Didache, it was known as “the Way”, but in the 107 A.D. letter of Ignatius of Antioch we see that it was already well known as Catholic. (Oh BTW, the official name is Catholic, There is no such “animal” as RCC. Thatwas coined sometime in the 16th century by Protestants as an insult to the ONE Catholic Church but the Church wisely embraced it so as to take the “sting” out of the insult so now quite a few know the Catholic Church as the Roman Catholic Church. Still the Catholic Church is one although it is comprised of Both the Latin (Roman) and the Eastern Rites.)

By your logic the Greek Orthodox never existed.

How can you say that when the Catholic Church and the Greek Orhodox share the same history? History. Your research in the library should inform you that some of the Greek Orthodox split from the Catholic Church (and a couple never did) then some returned to the Catholic Church as Eastern Catholic Rites. You’ll learn that the Eastern Churches and the Church of the West are described as “two lungs” of the One Catholic Church.

You claim to speak for Jesus and then call Him a liar about Biblical authority, brilliant .

It seems I am not the one who is calling Jesus a liar–that belongs to the person who doesn’t seem to realize Matthew 16:18.

As far as whether the LDS are Protestants, I can’t see how–even though Joseph Smith was from a Protestant-Christian heritage, the LDS hold pagan beliefs, and used to call Christians an abomination.

 

[1holycatholic]

…
I do not believe liars
…

Since you have been caught plagiarizing (which is lying and stealing), why should we believe you?

 

[truthsilence]

Your question implies the RCC existed at the time of Jesus but the only record that states that was written by the greatest forgers in human history, the RCC. Why is there no indication in the Bible that there was a Bishop of Rome or that Peter ever went there? Show me from the Bible , I do not believe liars and the RCC admitted they forged the Credetals ,they admitted they are liars, world record holders. .
Have you ever read the Bible? The Jews had God part the Red Sea in front of their eyes and fed them for 40 years in the desert and made their clothes last the whole time, knocked down whole cites , stopped the Jordon from flowing etc. etc. and they could not go 2 weeks with out apostasy, why do think the Christians have greater faith? We are by nature evil, of course there was apostasy. God does not change but the RCC of today is nothing like it was before, they constantly rewrite dogma.

Frank, do you believe anything that was written in the first few centuries after Christ? What’s the “cut off” date, in your estimation?

Do you realize that you are using the same basic arguments that the LDS church uses? They claim the Church fell away at a fairly early period in history, too. They claim that the Priesthood of God was lost, and there was no authority left to act in His name. Frank, the gospel that was given to the apostles, their witness, was supposed to fill the ends of the earth. They were given a great commission by the resurrected Lord Himself, and Peter was placed at the head of the Church by Him. You’re saying they didn’t get very far before this supposed apostasy happened. (For your information, the LDS church says the same thing).

You didn’t really tell me, other than the Catholic church re-writing history with this great fraudulent work of theirs, what happened between the time of Jesus and the apostles, and the reformation? And show me some re-written dogma, please. One item will do. Cite your references.

What? The LDS are not Christian, even according to the RCC so how could they be Protestant? Not to mention the Reformation was in the 16th century, not the 19th
.
**What? What makes them ‘not Christian’? Sounds like you’re ‘speaking for Jesus’? Where in the Bible does it say the LDS aren’t Christian?
**
The problem is the apostasy of the whole church that gave up Biblical authority to materialist in the 19th century.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So, was the apostasy in the 19th century, then? The first century? The third?

You only have the history given to you by the authors of the greatest forgery the world has ever known . My ancestors never kowtowed to Rome and millions died for it. By your logic the Greek Orthodox never existed.
**
I have no idea what you’re talking about. Sorry.**

I have all the apostolic teaching, it is in the Bible.

And how did it get there?

You keep making grand statements but you are nothing but hot air. Unless you can show where the Bible says that Peter ever even went to Rome , let alone that there was a Bishop of Rome then or that he was the top dog or would have descendants then all you have are legend from a group who admitted they are the biggest frauds in world history.

**Well thank you. I didn’t realize that my statements were ‘grand’. The early church fathers speak of Peter in Rome. But you haven’t said what period of time they became lying frauds, so I don’t know if you’d be interested in what they had to say, or not. Probably not.

When exactly did the Catholic Church admit that they are the biggest frauds in world history? Please cite a specific reference. I’d like to see that.**

You claim to speak for Jesus and then call Him a liar about Biblical authority, brilliant .

**I don’t claim to ‘speak for Jesus’, (where in the world did you get that idea?) And I certainly never called Him a liar, about anything. Quite the contrary.

Peace,
Tami

**

 

[hosemonkey]

What we are dealing with here in Mr. Cox is your modern-day “Know-Nothing.”

"Knownothingism"

This was a name applied to a movement in American politics which attracted a large share of public attention during the period from 1851 to 1858. It was the revival or re-appearance under a new name of the Native American movement which, during the preceding quarter of a century, had made various organized efforts to engraft its principles upon the legislation and policy of theAmerican government. These principles briefly stated, were

• the proscription of those who professed the Roman Catholic faith and,
• the exclusion of foreign-born citizens from all offices of trust and emolument in the government, whether federal, state, or municipal.
  It may be added that Roman Catholics of Irish origin, whether native or foreign-born, were at all times the special object of Native American hostility, and that the “foreigners”, contemptuously so called, against whom the Knownothing denunciations were levelled, and who were to be excluded from the rights of citizenship, were for the most part Irish immigrants to the United States professing the Roman Catholic faith. This Native American spirit may be traced back to the very beginning of the National Government. In many of the colonies there were penal laws which forbade the practice of the Roman Catholic religion, and these laws remained on the Statute Books down to the time of the War of Independence. With the organization of government and the adoption of a written Constitution, the question of religious toleration naturally arose, and the principle of freedom of religion was incorporated in the Federal Constitution (Art. VI) which declared that “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States”. This liberty of conscience was further assured by an amendment adopted in 1791, which declared that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” While the policy of the National Government was thus defined, and its law-making power was restrained from legislation hostile to the principle of freedom of religion, the individual states had reserved the right to regulate the question of religion and of a state Church within their respective jurisdictions, and the elimination from the Constitutions of the various states of the religious disqualifications which they contained affecting Roman Catholics was accomplished slowly and not without much resistance on the part of a considerable portion of the population. Thus, it was not until 1833 that the union between Church and State in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts was dissolved, and Catholics were relieved from having to pay taxes for the support of the state (Protestant) Church. New Jersey retained its anti-Catholic Constitution until 1844, and only in 1877 did New Hampshire expunge from its Constitution the provision disqualifying Catholics from holding office in that state. These, with instances from other states which might be added, show that the spirit of intolerance of the Roman Catholic religion still survived. Freedom of religion as asserted in the Federal Constitution was not by any means universally accepted in theory, still less in practice."
  (The Catholic Encyclopedia)

So, as we can see, “Know-Nothingism” is alive and well, at least in the person of Mr. Cox. His kind of ignorance is difficult to counter, it seems almost genetic. “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Please pray for him and those like him.

 

[JohnVIII]

This is the apostasy:

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times SOME will fall away from the faith” (1 Timothy 4:1)

“Some”, not “all”!