Are Marian dogmas wildly un biblical?

[benidict]

I see what you are saying Benedict and mind you I can appreciate it, but the reasoning you are using behind it doesn’t seem to make much sense. All the examples that you have used are in the OT, there was always the people, a middle man, and God. However, since we have Christ as the Word made flesh does he not become instrument between the people and God the Father? Has Christ not become our new Moses, Elijah/Elisha? So why do we now need to have an intercessor between the people and Christ?

well said Mike. but in the new testament as well, are we not told to intercede for one another? cannot i ask you to pray for me to the Lord our God? am i then not useing you as a “middle man”? also does it not say that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much? how much more then, the prayers of our Mother on our behalf? were not the o.t. examples given to us as examples? peace

 

[Mikeoffaith]

well said Mike. but in the new testament as well, are we not told to intercede for one another? cannot i ask you to pray for me to the Lord our God? am i then not useing you as a “middle man”? also does it not say that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much? how much more then, the prayers of our Mother on our behalf? were not the o.t. examples given to us as examples? peace

Hi Benedict,

I understand completely to what you are saying. I would hope that my prayers for your well being are efficacious if not in an intercessory manner then at least in a manner of solidarity with you. But that may be another topic.

The point for me is the necessity. It’s already been said that to have Mary mediate between Christ and I is not a necessity, but it’s also been stated that it’s almost near necessity. But when it comes down to it, will my salvation be any more or less if I do or don’t ask Mary to intercede on my behalf?

Sorry to the OP but is this going to far off topic?

And yes the OT examples are always great examples of faithful men working for the good of their people!

Peace to you Benedict.

 

[benidict]

Hi Benedict,

I understand completely to what you are saying. I would hope that my prayers for your well being are efficacious if not in an intercessory manner then at least in a manner of solidarity with you. But that may be another topic.

The point for me is the necessity. It’s already been said that to have Mary mediate between Christ and I is not a necessity, but it’s also been stated that it’s almost near necessity. But when it comes down to it, will my salvation be any more or less if I do or don’t ask Mary to intercede on my behalf?

Sorry to the OP but is this going to far off topic?

And yes the OT examples are always great examples of faithful men working for the good of their people!

Peace to you Benedict.

no my friend. its not off topic. anything on this thread dealing with the Churches teaching, on Mary, and them being biblical, or just questions reguarding such are all welcome. ok. now that youve clarified your position. i would have to say to a certain degree no it is not a necessity. but on the other hand, does not the bible teach that we are responsible for each others final destiny? i would have to say yes. so i would agree with you, that prayers to Mary are not neccessary for salvation but are benificial to our walk. we may also have a difference in our idea of salvation. i do not believed i am saved. i believe i am redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, and am working out my salvation with fear and trembling. do Lutherans believe differently? there are verses though that point out, we do need eachothers prayers to finish our journey to heaven. i will get them for you when i get to my room tonight. salvation is in a very real sense, not a solo project like golf. we cannot improve on our own. we need Christ, others who are Called by his Name. and it doesnt hurt to have the help of those who have gone beyond. st. Benedict is my patron st. but i spend more time asking the intercession of Mary, and to a large degree st. Michael, given to where im at. also st. Martin of tours. im positive your prayers of intercession have been effacious… i left the parking lot just before two mortars hit it the other day. two of my battle buddies were less than 30 feet away from the blast, and came out without a scratch! if that is not angelic protection, and intercession, then i dont know what is. Peace and prayers for you.

 

[Good_Fella]

Some modern Hebrew scholars say that in Isaiah 7:14 the word could be translated ‘young maiden’ instead of virgin.

The Hebrew word for “young maiden” is almah. This feminine noun refers to a girl who has reached puberty and who is still under the custody of her parents but of marriageable age - even an adolescent girl who is “betrothed” to a man in marriage (Mt 1:18). Thus in a wider sense the word connotes a state of virginity. Certainly the word almah does not function to preclude a girl from being a virgin. By the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Matthew quotes the Septuagint and uses the word “virgin” parthenos] when referring to Mary and the virgin birth. The use of the definite article in Isaiah functions to emphasize that Mary was in fact a virgin when she conceived Jesus. Matthew is addressing the Jews about the reality of the Incarnation.

*All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:

"Behold, the virgin [parthenos] shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel, " which means “God is with us.”*
Matthew 1, 22-23 [NAB]

I see Christ, in both instances, as being a bit abrupt with his mother instead of a loving response: Matt. 12:46-50 and John 2:4.

Nowhere is it explicitly mentioned in the gospels that Jesus actually rebuked his mother. There are recorded instances, however, where Jesus rebukes Peter, James, and John.

When the disciples James and John actually saw this they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to consume them?” Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they journeyed to another village.
Luke 9, 54-56 [NAB]

At this he turned around and, looking at his disciples,* rebuked*** Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.”
Mark 8, 33 [NAB]

And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.
John 1, 14

The glory of the Father’s only Son would have diminished if Jesus had ever rebuked, admonished, or belittled his mother in public at the cost of her maternal dignity. The Son of Man was full of grace and truth, so he couldn’t have ever violated the Fourth Commandment: Honour thy father and thy mother. Not at any given instance did our Lord ever waver in his divine perfect love for his mother or succumb to a moment of indifference or resentful impatience towards her. Nor would he have ever hypocritically denied his own words: “Whoever curses his father or mother shall die.”(Mt 15:4; cf. Prov 20:20).

… the Bible clearly says that Christ had brothers. If so, why wasn’t Mary wasn’t placed under their care?.. could this have been another illustration of the distance between Jesus and his biological family? Read Matt. 12:46-50 once more.

I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
Psalm 69, 8-9

Some Protestants cite Pslam 69:4-9 as evidence that Jesus actually did have uterine brothers, and they point to v v. 8-9 as a prophecy of our Lord being distanced from them and rejected. This Psalm is indeed a Messianic prophecy, but only to a certain extent. In the original or primary context, God is speaking to us about King David, saying he will be a father unto him. What is said about David in this Psalm may at some point allude to Jesus Christ. But the Psalm is not a Messianic prophecy in its entirety. It does not allude to our Lord where we have “when he commits iniquity, I will chasten him.” The Son of Man never committed iniquity, since he was sinless. This passage refers strictly to David. It deals with the original context and primary fulfillment. In like manner, v v. 8-9 are not alluding to the Messiah and should be taken in their original context: David’s relationship with his biological brothers.

Verses 8-9 find their secondary fulfillment in John 1:11: He came to his own, but his own people did not receive him. But these “people” who are mentioned are not the offspring of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the Gospel we have the expression “his own” [neuter: literally his own property and possession] and “his own people” [the Israelites, who belonged to God as his own possession but rejected his Only-begotten Son, the Messiah]. In this sense we could say that Jesus was rejected by his “brothers”. The law was fulfilled and brought to completion in Jesus through his rejection by the Jews (Jn 19:14-16). Thus the brothers who distanced themselves from him were actually at the foot of the cross mocking and reviling him. Our Lord was consumed as a sacrifice by the blind religious zeal of the priests of the temple.

PAX :heaven:

 

[Nicea325]

Nicea he asked early church not church circa 1860 CE.

And what year was the NT canon made official? Nearly 400 years after Christ? God is outside of time in case you did not know.

 

[Good_Fella]

Mary had nothing to do with the work of salvation which began and ended on the cross. The incarnation saved no one. If Jesus would have ascended back to heaven prior to the cross no men would have been saved.

God could have saved the human race from sin and death without becoming incarnate by being made of a woman (Gal 4:4). Like Adam, the Son of Man could have been formed out of a lump of clay and be just as much human as we are. Our heavenly Father willed that his Only-begotten Son be fashioned like the rest of us for a reason. And since God has decreed that his Son be born of a woman from all eternity, it cannot be otherwise. God is pure Act. The reason why God chose to become one of us in the Person of the divine Word, by assuming his flesh and blood through a woman, is that it should take the faith and obedience of a woman to help restore mankind (Adam) to friendship with God, since it was a woman who enticed man to reject God in the first place. Mary was called to help reverse what had transpired in the garden of Eden with the encroachment of the serpent. She is the *Woman of Promise *prophetically foretold in the Protoevangelium (Gen 3:15).

The work of salvation originates from our heavenly Father and was put into effect by him on his initiative as soon as Adam and Eve fell from his grace and the original state of holiness and justice. God’s plan would have been ruined if Mary had said “No” to the angel Gabriel that morning in the sixth month, just as his plan for each of us could be ruined by our rejection of his will for us. Thus, if Jesus had decided to abandon his mission prematurely by ascending back into heaven against his Father’s will, in a spirit of disobedience reminiscient of the old Adam, mankind would not have been saved. And if Mary chose not to conceive and bear the child in opposition to the will of God, who desires that everyone be saved, God would have abandoned us as unworthy of becoming his adopted children. The verdict against Adam would have stood with no hope of reconcilation. According to the Father’s design, there can be no redemption and salvation without human obedience and moral courage, for these virtues presuppose a sincere love for God and an unwavering trust in him without which we can never hope to be saved. Both Jesus (the new Adam) and Mary (the new Eve) are representatively causative of our salvation, the new Adam in a primary capacity and the new Eve in a secondary one, as our first biological parents are of our original fall from grace.

For just as through the disobedience of one person the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5, 19

“And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
Luke 1, 43-45

Salvation was wrought through Christ’s sacrificial work on the cross; a work which Mary had nothing to do with, but along with the others could only watch on and then learn afterwards what had Divinely transpired through that sacrificial work. That work which was Godward: propitiation; and that which was manward: reconciliation & redemption

And Simeon blessed them[Mary and Joseph] and said, "Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted, and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."
Luke 2, 34-35

Simeon’s prophecy was fulfilled as Mary stood at the foot of the Cross making satisfaction to God for us by her sublime spiritual suffering. In order for our Lord to be our propitiation, Mary had to have a share in her divine Son’s suffering for our sake. She partook of Christ and had a share in his life as she watched him suffer and die a cruel death. By identifying with her Son in his mortal agony, Mary served to appease the wrath (justice) of God together with him and mediate the grace of salvation to the world. As our spiritual mother, from whom we have inherited new life in Christ, Mary exemplified what it must take on our part to reap the benefits of our Lord’s act of atonement (Rom 8:17). She was never a passive spectator in God’s plan of salvation ever since she pronounced her Fiat. Mary’s *faith working through love * pleased our heavenly Father and appealed to his mercy towards us all the more. James tells us that the prayers of a righteous person avails much. Our Blessed Mother’s presence on Golgotha constituted a great act of prayer for us all, which her suffering on account of her beloved Son made efficacious as a channel of divine grace.

*PAX * :heaven:

 

[GaryTaylor]

Exactly, The Wedding of Cana is another great example.

“Woman, my time has not yet come.” Whats that all about with Mary? Its not about a wedding and wine.

Whats Christs time? His time is the Cross. Thats the significant event in the New Testament. Its not His time to perform a miracle. And how much wine was made? And through Marys request Christ points us toward the Cross. The New Wine is the Glory of Creation. Its a sign of what is to come at Cana.

 

[Esdra]

I never saw or even heard that in my entire life.
Even in my anti-Catholic fundamentalist days I would have doubted that.
Maybe in some backwoods villiage in a third world country…

Uhm… You never heared of Medjugorje?

Mary DOES give prophesies…

But I guess in some countries like in Latin America or the Philippines people DO go to statues of Mary and ask her for prophesies…

Esdra

 

[JustaServant]

Uhm… You never heared of Medjugorje?

Mary DOES give prophesies…

But I guess in some countries like in Latin America or the Philippines people DO go to statues of Mary and ask her for prophesies…

Esdra

Medjugorje has been condemned by the Catholic Church.
Any more disinformation?

 

[Good_Fella]

Medjugorje has been condemned by the Catholic Church.
Any more disinformation?

It has not been condemned by the Church.

PAX :heaven:

 

[PRmerger]

Uhm… You never heared of Medjugorje?

Mary DOES give prophesies…

But I guess in some countries like in Latin America or the Philippines people DO go to statues of Mary and ask her for prophesies…

Esdra

I don’t believe that any person here has ever seen a Catholic go up to a statue of Mary and ask it for a prophesy.

No rational person talks to a statue in an effort to have it see into the future and provide you with some guidance.

And I defy anyone to provide proof of a devoted Catholic standing in front of a statue asking it to speak to him to provide him with aid in making a decision.

 

[jlhargus]

Mrk

 

[pablope]

Uhm… You never heared of Medjugorje?

Mary DOES give prophesies…

But I guess in some countries like in Latin America or the Philippines people DO go to statues of Mary and ask her for prophesies…

Esdra

I spent 25 years in the Philippines…and I think you are getting your information wrong or is misinformed. The Philippines is the predominantly catholic country in asia…and a lot of people there have a great devotion to the BVM, especially to the Our Lady of Perpetual Help, they are very much aware of the apparations at Lourdes and the message of Fatima. But asking for prophesies…where did you get this?

 

[benidict]

i love our Blessed Mother. even my mom who is a protestant does not feel any jealousy when i tell her i need to go talk to my Mother. she gets it. but i would never, ever, and i mean Ever! ask for a prophecy from Our Lady. nor have i ever in my life heard of this being done. i have met wonderful priest from all over the world, have a viet namese one, im working with one now. and not one, would ever do this, nor encourage anyone to. this is news to me. the children of fatima were not seeking a prophecy. if anything, they were attempting to do a shortcut of the rosary at the time this happened. they paid a heavy heavy price for what our Lady told them. 2 died young. they were threatened with imprisonment, and worse, if they did not tell the authorities what they were told. who would seek something like this. anyone the Blessed Mother has ever conversed with face to face, has had much suffering that has followed. in the eyes of the world, foolishness. in the eyes of faith…ill let yall be the judge. Peace

 

[JustaServant]

Uhm… You never heared of Medjugorje?

Mary DOES give prophesies…

But I guess in some countries like in Latin America or the Philippines people DO go to statues of Mary and ask her for prophesies…

Esdra

Tell ya what. The monkey is on your back to prove this.
So please provide the time. place, persons, including the clergy involved (because this needs to be reported to the Bishop).

 

[pablope]

Medjugorje has been condemned by the Catholic Church.
Any more disinformation?

I think it has not been condemned, but the local Bishop, up to now, has not given it his approval due to his doubts.

 

[jlhargus]

No, it’s not unbiblical. Christ’s work of redemption began on the cross and ended on the cross. It was His work and His alone.Christ is God’s salvation. Mary played a part of the incarnation by which God brought about salvation in the Person and sacrificial work of Jesus Christ

JL: You state, Christ’s work of redemption began and ended on the cross, yet that contradicts scripture, 1Cor15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

IT IS FINISHED, does not mean the sacrifice is complete. For the victim, it is finished, the victim is dead and the blood of the victim has been shed, but the atonement has not been made. The atoning blood had to be taken by the OT High Priest into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled on the mercy seat and the pascal lamb eaten. Christ the sacrificial victim, had to be resurrected and ascend into heaven, he is both victim and priest. He rose not as victim but as our High Priest to enter into the Holy of Holies made without hands with his atoning blood taking his seat at the right hand of God the Father, bringing to rememberance, [Hb9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; BUT INTO HEAVEN ITSELF, now TO APPEAR **in the presence of God FOR US:] His presents and appearance on our behalf as the Lamb slain ever showing his wounds and blood to the Father and making that once for all sacrifice present to the Father and us. That sacrificed lamb also had to be eaten, which we eat at every mass.

Christ’s work of redemption on the cross was perfect. It lacked nothing. Certainly nothing you could add (nor I). There’s no “co-redeemer” involved in this redemption. It had to be perfect. Hence, Christ (His blood) alone.

JL: Christ sacrifice lacks nothing, yet Christ shares with us in his work of redeeming. Otherwise Paul is totally off course and scripture is in error and we know that’s not the case.

COL 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake and in my flesh ** I COMPLETE what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions FOR THE SAKE OF HIS BODY that is THE CHURCH** [Uniting with Christ our sufferings we become co-redeemers with Christ. Christ shares all he is and has with his people. He shares his priesthood with all believers who are a royal priesthood.
Rm15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the PRIESTLY DUTY of PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL of God, SO that the GENTILES MIGHT BECOME AN OFFERING ACCEPTABLE TO GOD, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

1COR3:9 For **WE ARE LABOURERS TOGETHER WITH GOD ye are God’s husbandry ye are God’s building

3JN1:8 We therefore ought to receive such that we might be FELLOWHELPERS TO THE TRUTH.

Jms 5:19 Brethren if any of you do err from the truth and one convert him 20 Let him know that HE WHICH CONVERTETH THE SINNER from the error of his way SHALL SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1TIM4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this THOU SHALT BOTH SAVE THYSELF, AND THEM THAT HEAR THEE.

Lk 1:38: And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. Through Mary’s faith and obedience she freely cooperates, co-works (co-redeems) with Christ. Eve co-cause of the fall she co-operated with the serpent by her yes to eating the fruit and encouraging Adam also to eat. Thereby bring death to all. Mary co-redeemer, she co-operated with God by her yes to God, thereby brings life (salvation) to all through giving birth to the New Adam Christ the Redeemer.

Mary is mediatrix par excellence in giving birth to Christ all grace comes thorough her because Christ the source of all grace came though her. She could have said no. Yet she said, behold the handmaid of the Lord let it be done according to thy word. Mary co-operated freely willingly and fully without self interest. Submitting totally to God. All people of God are mediators in that we can mediate by witnessing, correcting, praying or offering our sufferings in union with Christ, for those who do not know Christ. when we suffer, witness or live for Christ we are co-redeemer’s with Christ in that he uses us to touch others even as he uses Mary to touch all humanity thru her co-operation. Our co-redeeming touches maybe one or two or even thousands, depending on the person and the grace God gives to our co-operation, if we do nothing with our gift we may loose our own soul as the man who did not even get interest on the talent given him by the Lord, Mt 25:24-30. This does not take away from Christ the one mediator, Christ shares his mediatorship and all he has and is with his people. He shares his priesthood with all his people making us a royal priesthood.

 

[jlhargus]

Originally Posted by PRmerger
Yes, she is the Queen Mother. Just like in the OT the Queen Mother was given a position of pre-eminence.

That’s what men call her but they have nothing to support it. David never elevated his mother to a throne, and Solomon was never given any divine instruction to do so. IOW, it was a man-made position.

JL: Scripture supports it and no David did n’t elevate his mother to a throne, but the son of David, Solomon did, whom will build a HOUSE FOR THE LORD (Temple). As God’s anointed king he had complete authority to institute any office he saw fit for the kingdom. Queen Mother was an office instituted by Solomon and remained and will remain as long as a Son of David sits on the throne of David, which will be forever. Christ, king in David’s line, whom is building a habitation for God (Temple of living stones)

If Mary’s son is the Son of David and King in David’s line, then Mary is Gebirah=Queen Mother in the regenerated spiritual Kingdom of Israel in the line of king David=Kingdom of God. Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase OF HIS GOVERNMENT and peace THERE SHALL BE NO END, UPON THE THRONE OF DAVID, and upon HIS KINGDOM, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even FOR EVER. The zeal of THE LORD of hosts WILL PERFORM THIS.

[Lk 1:31 And, behold, THOU SHALT CONCEIVE in thy womb, AND BRING FORTH A SON, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be CALLED the SON OF THE HIGHEST: and **THE LORD GOD SHALL GIVE UNTO HIM THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID: 33 HE WILL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER, HIS KINGDOM WILL HAVE NO END.] Jesus is King in the line of David, Mary is Queen Mother, or Gebirah in Hebrew. Queen Mother was an office in the Davidic Kingdom, form Solomon, the son of David, till the last earthly king IN DAVID’S LINE.

1Kgs8:18 And the LORD said unto David my father, Whereas it was in thine heart to build an house unto my name, thou didst well that it was in thine heart. 19 Nevertheless THOU SHALT NOT BUILD THE HOUSE; BUT THY SON thy son THAT shall COME FORTH OUT OF THY LOINS, he SHALL BUILD THE HOUSE UNTO MY NAME. [2Sam 7:13 HE SHALL BUILD A HOUSE for my name and I WILL ESTABLISH the throne of HIS KINGDOM FOR EVER.] Christ the Son of David is building an everlasting spiritual kingdom. Christ builds with living stones, regenerating the old earthly Davidic kingdom, of God, into the new spiritual heavenly kingdom of God.

[1Kgs2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And THE KING ROSE up TO MEET HER, AND BOWED HIMSELF UNTO HER, and sat down on his throne, AND CAUSED A SEAT TO BE SET FOR THE KING’S MOTHER; and SHE SAT ON HIS RIGHT HAND.] Mk10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

[REV 11:19 And THE TEMPLE OF GOD WAS OPENED IN HEAVEN and THERE WAS SEEN in his temple THE ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT and there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail RV 12:1 And THERE APPEARED A GREAT WONDER in heaven A WOMAN CLOTHED WITH THE SUN and the MOON UNDER HER FEET and UPON HER HEAD A CROWN OF TWELVE STARS 2 And she being with child cried travailing in birth and pained to be delivered] The woman is a person=Mary and a collective, symbolic of the Church, Old and New Covenant people of God. Twelve stars, universal queen, queen of heaven and earth.

[RV 12:5 And SHE BROUGHT FORTH A MAN CHILD who was TO RULE ALL NATIONS with a rod of iron and her child was caught up unto God and to his throne] To rule ALL NATIONS, universal king, the child is a person=Christ and collective, symbolic of the Davidic Kingdom.

Jer 52:1 ZEDIKIAH was twenty-one years old when he became KING, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. HIS MOTHER’S NAME was HAMUTAL, daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah.

2 Kgs 21:1 MANASSEH was twelve years old when he became
KING, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years. HIS MOTHER’S NAME was HEPHZIBAH.

2 Kgs 8:26 Two and twenty years old was AHAZIAH when he began to reign; and HE REIGNED one year in Jerusalem. And HIS MOTHER’S NAME WAS ATHALIAH, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

Jer 13:18 Say to THE KING and to THE QUEEN MOTHER, Come down from YOUR THRONES, for your glorious CROWNS will fall from your heads. 19 The cities in the Negev will be shut up, and there will be no one to open them. All Judah will be carried into exile, carried completely away.

Jer 44:9 9 Have you forgotten the wickedness committed by your fathers and by THE KINGS AND QUEENS OF JUDAH and the wickedness committed by you and your wives in the land of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem?

1Kgs8:20 And THE LORD HATH PERFORMED HIS WORD that he spake, and I AM RISEN UP in the room of David my father, AND SIT ON THE THRONE OF ISRAEL, AS THE LORD PROMISED, AND have BUILT AN HOUSE FOR the name of THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL. 21 And I HAVE SET THERE A PLACE FOR THE ARK, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.

 

[moondweller]

Simeon’s prophecy was fulfilled as Mary stood at the foot of the Cross making satisfaction to God for us by her sublime spiritual suffering. In order for our Lord to be our propitiation, Mary had to have a share in her divine Son’s suffering for our sake. She partook of Christ and had a share in his life as she watched him suffer and die a cruel death. By identifying with her Son in his mortal agony, Mary served to appease the wrath (justice) of God together with him and mediate the grace of salvation to the world.

Heresy! Acts 4:12 “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

As our spiritual mother, from whom we have inherited new life in Christ, Mary exemplified what it must take on our part to reap the benefits of our Lord’s act of atonement (Rom 8:17).

Heresy!Rom 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

She was never a passive spectator in God’s plan of salvation ever since she pronounced her Fiat. **Mary’s *faith working through love *** pleased our heavenly Father and appealed to his mercy towards us all the more.

Heresy!1 John 2:2 “…and He Himself is the propitiation (complete satisfaction) for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for {those of} the whole world.”

James tells us that the prayers of a righteous person avails much. Our Blessed Mother’s presence on Golgotha constituted a great act of prayer for us all, which her suffering on account of her beloved Son made efficacious as a channel of divine grace.

Heresy!John 1:16-17 "For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ."Mary is not directly connected to ANY of these Divine truths. Only Christ alone. IOW, she had nothing do with any of them - according to the Scriptures.

 

[moondweller]

JL: Scripture supports it and no David did n’t elevate his mother to a throne, but the son of David, Solomon did, whom will build a HOUSE FOR THE LORD (Temple). As God’s anointed king he had complete authority to institute any office he saw fit for the kingdom.

No, he had no such authority. He was given no Divine instruction to do so. God gave Israel a king as they requested (like the Gentile nations) but the king was to serve God and was under His authority. He was not a sovereign.

If Mary’s son is the Son of David and King in David’s line, then Mary is Gebirah=Queen Mother in the regenerated spiritual Kingdom of Israel in the line of king David=Kingdom of God. Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase OF HIS GOVERNMENT and peace THERE SHALL BE NO END, UPON THE THRONE OF DAVID, and upon HIS KINGDOM, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even FOR EVER. The zeal of THE LORD of hosts WILL PERFORM THIS.

Notice, no “queen mother.” Sorry, my friend, but there is no mention of a “Gebirah” in ANY of the prophecies regarding the Messianic, Davidic Kingdom (which is yet to come). Not even Gabriel said anything to Mary at the Annunciation regarding such a position. That would have been the time to say something about it - but, alas, more silence.

Sorry, my friend, but that position just doesn’t exist - now or in the Messianic Kingdom yet to come. As told to Mary, the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father DAVID (not Solomon.) It’s the Davidic Kingdom, not the kingdom of Solomon. David didn’t elevate his mother. And as a side note, Mary’s line isn’t through Solomon but through Nathan (Lk. 3:31). Not that it would have mattered - there’s simply no such position prophesied or was announced by the angel to Mary.

And the fact is, not even Christ is reigning as King yet. Presently He shares His heavenly Father’s throne in heaven functioning there as the believer’s High Priest. However, He will rightfully ascend His father David’s throne in Jerusalem at His second Advent. Just as Mary was told. But Gabriel said nothing of a throne for Mary - nothing!