Are Marian dogmas wildly un biblical?

[Good_Fella]

Sounds Beautiful.

I never really though about the link which Anthony V posted either. However from the Assumption and Original Sin I see its logic. I remember the Assumption teachings very early on in grammer school. Which is exactly why I get where Gabe is coming from in that regard.

See, at youth I was stuck on the idea that the Sisters would suggest you pray the Five Decades of the Rosary. I had no problem with the Rosary. I had a problem with the idea I had to recite “all those” prayers at one time. My theology was I could go to the tabernacle of Jesus Christ at the CC, then sit in front of the Cross and literally speak to God through prayer. Trust me, I was in awe of that alone for a very long time.

How things change, today I’m running to confession in an hour, as its the First Saturday of Reparartion.

Thats why they call them the “mysteries” a theological reality you can spend a lifetime contemplating.

**Truth is, is it not the better to say, I do not understand, than to state I do not believe? **

Peace

It certainly is better. All public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle, but the full significance of what has been deposited by the apostles takes time for us to grasp. In a sense, Peter was given the keys to unlock the doors to the divine mysteries. And before he was martyred, he passed them on to Linus who succeeded him on the episcopal throne. .

PAX
:heaven:

 

[jlhargus]

Explain to me logically how free will is not contradictory to the idea that God knew in advance that those Jericho residents, Amalekites and others would continue to be ‘evil’. I’m not sure it was evil - to begin with - to resist invading armies which were slaughtering your people, destroying your cities and seizing your land. Yes, I know. We must never take issue with scripture or the Church. Believe what we’re taught and don’t ask questions and rock the boat

JL: I have explained at lest twice. I will re-post my answer. “He simple foreknew what their choice would be. How does God knowing events in advance violate one’s free will? They chose their life style. God didn’t force a life style of sin on them. God simply foresaw what their life style CHOICES would be.”

Do you really believe God doesn’t know the future and is taken by supprise? You have yet to explain how foreknowledge of one’s choice violates free will. You also have yet to answer, from what source you get your knowledge of God. By the way resisting invading armies isn’t sinfull that’s your misunderstanding. It was their sins that was evil.

I am against abortion, by the way, except in extreme cases. I know one family with six children who used approved family planning based on a woman's cycle but the wife became pregnant. Her doctor warned her that another child would likely mean her death and that of the baby. She, a devout Catholic, felt obliged to have the baby (against the wishes of her husband and parents). She was sure God and her guardian angel would protect her. She and the baby died. In such a situation I would have allowed an exception and permitted an emergency abortion at an early stage to save the mother's life. Instead, she left behind six motherless and grieving children, a broken and bitter husband, and an angry and extended family that left Catholicism, now bitterly anti-Catholic.

JL: Jn15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.] I can only pray I would have half the faith and courage of the lady who chose God’s will.

Yes, I know. Absolutely no exceptions. I agree with Jesus: "He that is without sin, let him cast the first stone."

JL: Do you really believe that scripture justifies killing a defenseless innocent human beings in the womb? By posting that scripture you unwittingly admit and recognize abortion is a sin.

You threaten to report me. Go ahead. I probably spend too much time here on CAF trying to present a different perspective. I’m sure that some posters become incensed, sincerely convinced that their way is the only way. but so be it. I guess I’ve been brainwashed by our great democracy into believing that an honest interchange of ideas is a positive thing. Fortunately, the large majority of Catholics I know, including other family members, are reasonable and are happy to have open discussion without shutting down minority and/or dissenting viewpoints. They stimulate thinking and instructive dialogue.

JL: Show me where I have been unreasonable or have tried to SHUT down a minority viewpoint? I don’t think anyone has a problem with an honest open discussion even if heated. I have a thick skin even to personal remarks. However calling Our Lord NAMES is beyond the pale. You seem unable to distinguish between justice and mercy. God who is all knowing can judge whenever he wills. He can also use whomever He wills to carry out that judgment. You seem to think God is unjust to judge and punish.

 

[Roy5]

God certainly is not unjust in his judgements. That’s why I don’t believe that He knew in advance that the Amalakites and others were going to be evil, so it was okay for the ancient Hebrews to go in and slaughter them. That is making God into a monster. I will not sit idly by and have my Lord depicted as someone who would order the destruction of entire tribes, including innocent woman and children (and babies still in the womb). That would hardly be the Father of Christ who told us to love one another. forgive one another, bless those who hate us, do unto others what we would have them do unto you - etc.

 Why don't you take the time and read Exodus 22, Lev. 20, Deut. 22-23, Joshua 6:21, and so many other texts that contradict flatly the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus, you will remember, said "ye have heard it said, that ye love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say unto you love your enemy...!" (Matt. 5:43ff) Here Jesus was disputing major Old Testament teachings and action. How does that fit in with the despicable genocide reported in the Old Testament when entire populations were put to the sword by the invaders? Would you have cheered David with shouts of "Saul has killed his thousands but David has killed his ten thousands!" What sort of twisted Christianity would embrace this sort of hatred and mass killing?

  Let's not make God into a ruthless tyrant. Jesus said "I and my Father are One." As I recall, the violence and hatred evident in much of the Old Testament is totally contradicted by the message of Jesus. I go with Jesus.

  I rather think you may be the one who is in danger of misrepresenting God. I am defending how God has been presented to me since childhood. "God is Love" we read in the Bible. Amen!

 

[jlhargus]

God certainly is not unjust in his judgements. That’s why I don’t believe that He knew in advance that the Amalakites and others were going to be evil, so it was okay for the ancient Hebrews to go in and slaughter them. That is making God into a monster. I will not sit idly by and have my Lord depicted as someone who would order the destruction of entire tribes, including innocent woman and children (and babies still in the womb). That would hardly be the Father of Christ who told us to love one another. forgive one another, bless those who hate us, do unto others what we would have them do unto you - etc.

 Why don't you take the time and read Exodus 22, Lev. 20, Deut. 22-23, Joshua 6:21, and so many other texts that contradict flatly the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus, you will remember, said "ye have heard it said, that ye love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say unto you love your enemy...!" (Matt. 5:43ff) Here Jesus was disputing major Old Testament teachings and action. How does that fit in with the despicable genocide reported in the Old Testament when entire populations were put to the sword by the invaders? Would you have cheered David with shouts of "Saul has killed his thousands but David has killed his ten thousands!" What sort of twisted Christianity would embrace this sort of hatred and mass killing?

  Let's not make God into a ruthless tyrant. Jesus said "I and my Father are One." As I recall, the violence and hatred evident in much of the Old Testament is totally contradicted by the message of Jesus. I go with Jesus.

  I rather think you may be the one who is in danger of misrepresenting God. I am defending how God has been presented to me since childhood. "God is Love" we read in the Bible. Amen!

JL: I have read the bible every word probably seven more books than you have read. So the OT isn’t scripture and the Israelites didn’t worship the true God. I think your own words explain your position very well.

** Fair question. I don’t accept everything in scripture as sacrosanct,** because I have studied the Bible sufficiently to become convinced that certain pagan influences crept in before the gospels were written down.

 

[Publisher]

JL:** I have read the bible every word probably seven more books than you have read**. So the OT isn’t scripture and the Israelites didn’t worship the true God. I think your own words explain your position very well.

I’ve read the Bible from “cover to cover”…and have read four more books and a Psalm in the OT more than you…don’t know what your point was…not that you need a “point”…just found the comment “strange”…so I thought I’d “jump in” just "cause.

 

[jlhargus]

I’ve read the Bible from “cover to cover”…and have read four more books and a Psalm in the OT more than you…don’t know what your point was…not that you need a “point”…just found the comment “strange”…so I thought I’d “jump in” just "cause.

JL: I don’t know what your point is either.

 

[allenthorn]

When I was a charismatic Episcopalian, then a charismatic whatever, I would publicly denounce the Marian dogmas as non biblical and worse.
After coming home to the truth of the Catholic church, the more I study the Church’s teaching, the more I understand that those Marian dogmas are God’s amazing gift to all believers. My faith has been deepened by accepting Mary, joyfully embracing her as my perfect mother. I wish I had embraced her 40 years ago.

 

[Good_Fella]

When I was a charismatic Episcopalian, then a charismatic whatever, I would publicly denounce the Marian dogmas as non biblical and worse.
After coming home to the truth of the Catholic church, the more I study the Church’s teaching, the more I understand that those Marian dogmas are God’s amazing gift to all believers. My faith has been deepened by accepting Mary, joyfully embracing her as my perfect mother. I wish I had embraced her 40 years ago.

Welcome home, Allen. :hug1:

I’ve been a Catholic since I laid in a cradle, but it wasn’t until 2006 that I became truly devoted to Mary in the faith. But she had always been a mother to us even when we paid little or no attention to her as her sons. I believe that it was through our Blessed Mother’s advocacy that you received the grace of embracing the Catholic faith and I returned to practising and truly living my faith without the indifferentism that had affected my life for many years. By the way, Max Thurman was a Protestant theologian and critic of the Church’s Marian doctrines and devotions. He eventually converted to the Catholic faith and entered the priesthood. I strongly believe that Mary had a key role in his conversion, because he passed away on the Solemnity of the Assumption.

The child’s mother said, “As the Lord lives, and as your soul lives, I will not leave you.”
2 Kings 4, 30

PAX
:heaven:

 

[allenthorn]

Glad to be in such august company.

 

[jlhargus]

mark