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AbideWithMe
Guest
Here, for good measure, is Acts 21:17 which I left out: “When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers greeted us warmly. The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.”
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AbideWithMe
Guest
Kaninchen, Meltzerboy, YKohen—Any thoughts on the meaning of “olam” (other than also meaning “world” now)???
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GEddie
Guest
I am studying Hebrew with a MJ congregation. They use the term olam to mean world.
ICXC NIKA
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AbideWithMe
Guest
I’m wondering, though, what it meant in Biblical times, when it clearly had a different meaning.
What picture did the early Hebrews have in their minds when they used the word olam? Some surmise it’s related to “alam”, and they think the concrete picture connected with alam was of something hidden. Others have different theories regarding the derivation and development of the word olam.
What did it mean to Moses when he used it to describe the Law…the Abrahamic covenant…the nature of God?
How was it understood by the Jews in Jesus’ time?
Any Biblical Hebrew experts here?
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dzheremi
Guest
Absolutely not. We dealt with the Judaizing heresy at the Council of Jerusalem circa AD 50. They lost. Messianic Judaism seems like one of those compromise positions that satisfies no one. They are not Jews to the Jews and not Christians to the Christians. I can’t help but think that the modern movement that goes under this umbrella term is the result of Evangelical/Revivalist Christians having no history or culture to speak of, having rejected the traditional sources of Christian historical rootedness (the councils, the Fathers, etc.) and hence turning the only clear and detailed example of a God-fearing Biblical culture that self-described “Bible-believing Christians” can see in their surface-level reading of the Bible: The Jewish culture. So they don’t identify with our Christian saints like the Theotokos, St. Athanasius, St. Cyril, St. George, etc. (which would make much more sense), but instead with the Jews. It’s rather sad, really.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Dz…,
I believe that we said the same thing in different ways. No sense in ***** footin around…it is what is…
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onemangang
Guest
I don’t know much about Messianic Jews other than most are like Evangelicals, with some cultural Jewish observances!
I, like others, have noticed that many of the self proclaimed “Messianic Jews” have no Jewish lineage what so ever!
You can go to a few Calvary Chapels out in the Los Angeles area, and see a bunch of Mexicans wearing the Star of David and claiming they have some sort of Jewish Lineage from Spain
sorry, I’m not buying it! Also, you can see some non-denominational Christian communities try (poorly) to recreate some Jewish observances, traditions, and rights of passage
From what I have seen, Messianic Jew, is not a cohesive group of people with the same thoughts, beliefs and practices. Many differ on who the Messiah is, like, was Jesus God, teacher, or prophet?
I have seen a debate with a “messianic Jew” and the voice of a group called “Outreach Judaism” The guy from Outreach Judaism (Tovia Singer) really dragged the evangelical Messianic Jew threw the mud so to speak! When ever the Messianic Jew would talk about the Trinity, hypostatic union, Virgin Birth…etc Tovia Singer would call the guy out and say these are doctrines “invented” by the Catholic Church, his opponent would try to say the New Testament shows them, but Tovia was all over the guy, pointing out that History will show that these doctrines were developed at later dates by the Catholic Church who compiled the New Testament to purposely fashion Jesus as Messiah, and they threw out all books that were contrary to their agenda, and even purposely mistranslated Hebrew (Hebrew word kaari from meaning "like a lion,” to “pierced"in Psalm 22) , to fashion Jesus as Messiah. He basically made the guy out to look confused, almost as if, Not only did his opponent not know his Judaism and its History, but he did not know his Christian history and its Catholic roots either!
As far as are Messianic Jews Christian? I guess only our blessed Lord can answer that
I, like others, have noticed that many of the self proclaimed “Messianic Jews” have no Jewish lineage what so ever!
You can go to a few Calvary Chapels out in the Los Angeles area, and see a bunch of Mexicans wearing the Star of David and claiming they have some sort of Jewish Lineage from Spain
sorry, I’m not buying it! Also, you can see some non-denominational Christian communities try (poorly) to recreate some Jewish observances, traditions, and rights of passage From what I have seen, Messianic Jew, is not a cohesive group of people with the same thoughts, beliefs and practices. Many differ on who the Messiah is, like, was Jesus God, teacher, or prophet?
I have seen a debate with a “messianic Jew” and the voice of a group called “Outreach Judaism” The guy from Outreach Judaism (Tovia Singer) really dragged the evangelical Messianic Jew threw the mud so to speak! When ever the Messianic Jew would talk about the Trinity, hypostatic union, Virgin Birth…etc Tovia Singer would call the guy out and say these are doctrines “invented” by the Catholic Church, his opponent would try to say the New Testament shows them, but Tovia was all over the guy, pointing out that History will show that these doctrines were developed at later dates by the Catholic Church who compiled the New Testament to purposely fashion Jesus as Messiah, and they threw out all books that were contrary to their agenda, and even purposely mistranslated Hebrew (Hebrew word kaari from meaning "like a lion,” to “pierced"in Psalm 22) , to fashion Jesus as Messiah. He basically made the guy out to look confused, almost as if, Not only did his opponent not know his Judaism and its History, but he did not know his Christian history and its Catholic roots either!
As far as are Messianic Jews Christian? I guess only our blessed Lord can answer that
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CopticChristian
Guest
Oneman,I don’t know much about Messianic Jews other than most are like Evangelicals, with some cultural Jewish observances!
I, like others, have noticed that many of the self proclaimed “Messianic Jews” have no Jewish lineage what so ever!
**You can go to a few Calvary Chapels out in the Los Angeles area, and see a bunch of Mexicans wearing the Star of David and claiming they have some sort of Jewish Lineage from Spain
From what I have seen, Messianic Jew, is not a cohesive group of people with the same thoughts, beliefs and practices. Many differ on who the Messiah is, like, was Jesus God, teacher, or prophet?
I have seen a debate with a “messianic Jew” and the voice of a group called “Outreach Judaism” The guy from Outreach Judaism (Tovia Singer) really dragged the evangelical Messianic Jew threw the mud so to speak! When ever the Messianic Jew would talk about the Trinity, hypostatic union, Virgin Birth…etc Tovia Singer would call the guy out and say these are doctrines “invented” by the Catholic Church, his opponent would try to say the New Testament shows them, but Tovia was all over the guy, pointing out that History will show that these doctrines were developed at later dates by the Catholic Church who compiled the New Testament to purposely fashion Jesus as Messiah, and they threw out all books that were contrary to their agenda, and even purposely mistranslated Hebrew (Hebrew word kaari from meaning "like a lion,” to “pierced"in Psalm 22) , to fashion Jesus as Messiah. He basically made the guy out to look confused, almost as if, Not only did his opponent not know his Judaism and its History, but he did not know his Christian history and its Catholic roots either!
As far as are Messianic Jews Christian? I guess only our blessed Lord can answer that
The Sephardic Jews are from Spain and look like Mexicans wearing the star of David…just FYI…
The question as to if they are Christian has to do if they have been baptized in the Trinitarian formula…this is what makes them Christian or not…ie initiation…
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YKohen
Guest
Generally not. In any case, a very small percentage of Mexicans are of 100% Spanish backgrounds. Almost all are a mix (mestizo) or are fully indigenous.
Not that it matters.
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dzheremi
Guest
The Sephardic Jews were not among the Spaniards who conquered Mexico. Think about it logically: Having been expelled from Spain in 1492 by the Alhambra Decree, most fled to the Maghreb/N. Africa, as well as Istanbul, Sarajevo, and Salonica. Why the heck would the Spanish crown trust as their representatives in the new world those they had quite unceremoniously kicked out of the country some years earlier, thinking them to be traitors? The Spanish conquest of the Aztec empire begin in 1519, long after all the Jews would’ve have left Spain or been forcibly converted. In fact, the Spanish didn’t even first settle in the Americas until 1510 (at Castilla de Oro). They didn’t even discover the mainland until 1498 (before that they were hanging around in the Islands: Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc).
Sounds like some people are strainin’ to do some explainin’. Judios falsos y su pobre porqueria.
They give Sephardic people a bad name, and I’m not even one of them, so I can only imagine how real Jews must feel!
Sounds like some people are strainin’ to do some explainin’. Judios falsos y su pobre porqueria.
They give Sephardic people a bad name, and I’m not even one of them, so I can only imagine how real Jews must feel!
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CopticChristian
Guest
Yk,
You miss the point…look like…not are…I dated a Sephardic Jewish woman and she looked like a Mexican wearing a star of David…they exist…how many…I don’t know…no Mexican is 100% Spanish…or they would be Spanish…?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States
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YKohen
Guest
I’m not missing the point. Where I live, we are a mix of Jews from across the globe. None look Mexican (and I have spent time in Mexico too). Of course, I’m sure there are somewhere, but it isn’t the norm.Yk,
You miss the point…look like…not are…I dated a Sephardic Jewish woman and she looked like a Mexican wearing a star of David…they exist…how many…I don’t know…no Mexican is 100% Spanish…or they would be Spanish…?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States
Not that it matters.
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mercytruth
Guest
Maranos and Crypto-Jews also came to the Americas:
jewishcuba.org/marranos.html
Then of course we have the subject of Ephraim, do you know if Yair Davidiy is a practicing Jew and whether he lives in Israel?
britam.org/bkephraim.html
shalom
micah
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YKohen
Guest
True, but they were few, not part of the Jews, and not around today as Jews.
Then of course we have the subject of Ephraim, do you know if Yair Davidiy is a practicing Jew and whether he lives in Israel?
britam.org/bkephraim.html
shalom
micah
Never heard of Yair Davidiy. As to Ephraim, they’re gone.
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mercytruth
Guest
Never heard of Yair Davidiy. As to Ephraim, they’re gone.
Jacob’s blessing upon Ephraim is that his descendants would teem like fish, and become a mutltitude of nations. Is this not the blessing that G-d made with Abraham? The prophet Jeremiah records G-d as saying that Ephraim is His firstborn.
How could Ephraim be called God’s firstborn during the time of the prophet Jeremiah, if Ephraim was already ‘gone’ as you say?
shalom
micah
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CopticChristian
Guest
Yk,
You do miss the point, in my opinion, utilizing your surroundings and stating what you see and think and believe…I met Sephardic Jews in San Francisco that looked like Mexicans wearing stars of David…I also lived with some nice Ethiopian people…this has nothing to do with Mexico…who is speaking about the norm?..
If you see a person that looks like they are from Mexico wearing a star of David…is it possible that they are Sephardic Jew?
and an aside, since you stated you speak for all Jews…
There are some Orthodox Jews that believe that Israel is a heresy and not Israel…you speak for you…only you…and when you say…
it does not matter…
if so, don’t post…
it does matter that you believe that you must have the last word…and I wait for the last word…
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YKohen
Guest
Has G-d brought Ephraim back yet? Has he been identified as such?
Nope.
Just because some guy makes a claim doesn’t mean it has any validity.
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YKohen
Guest
Usually, that’s what people do- speak about the norm. I also mentioned that it isn’t 100%
You obviously have no clue as to what they say- and believe. They believe that the state of Israel can’t exist until the messiah comes. They don’t say that we’re not Jews.it does matter that you believe that you must have the last word…and I wait for the last word…
And again, they are a small- and diminishing, group.
Want me to prove it? Just ask.
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mercytruth
Guest
Actually, within Christianity, the apostle Peter speaking to the disciples of Jesus Christ of the diaspora identifies Lo-Ammi as these believing Jews. (1 Peter 2:10)
The apostle Paul speaking to the disciples of Jesus Christ in Rome identifies Lo-Ammi as both Jewish and non-Jewish disciples of Jesus Christ. (Romans 9:25)
Hoshea, of all the books in the Tanakh, Ephraim is mentioned more times than anywhere else. The scripture that both the apostle Peter and the apostle Paul quote is taken from
Hoshea 2:23.I will say to those called ‘Not my people, (Lo-Ammi)’ ‘You are my people’;
To understand the meaning of Lo-Ammi as it applies to Ephraim teeming like fish and becoming a multitude of nations, one could infer that it is applying to this earlier scripture from Hoshea:
Then the Lord said, “Call him Lo-Ammi, for you are not my people, and I am not your God. 10 “Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ (Hoshea 1:9-10).
It is from these scriptures and from the blessing that what given to Ephraim, that the Church considered herself to be spiritual Israel, but Ephraim is principally the non-Jewish people of Israel, who have become as the sand of the seashore. There is yet to be the union of the two sticks as mentioned in the prophet Ezekiel. The stick of Judah (practicing Jews) and the stick of Joseph (Christianity) becoming as one.
shalom
micah
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