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sallybutler
Guest
If missionaries go to a place in need and try to show Christ through the example of their life, no. By this I mean that the missionary provides assistance in the basic needs (food) without insisting that the people change their beliefs from whatever to that of the missionary’s.
If the missionary is going to a country only with the idea that they will change the person’s belief (example, Catholic to Baptist or Protestant to Mormon) than yes, they are taking advantage.
A good example would the Missionaries of Charity (Mother Teresa). If someone believes in Christ as a result of the sister’s work, great. If not, they will stay there anyway.
If someone goes to another country to convert the people to "Christianity’ when the country is 99.9% Christian (example, most South American countries are Catholic, therefore Christian) that is wrong. If they are going to those countries because they are poor and the goal is to help the poor, no matter what their Christian affiliation is, that is good.
Mother Teresa is the best modern example of good missionaries, not exploitative missionaries.
If the missionary is going to a country only with the idea that they will change the person’s belief (example, Catholic to Baptist or Protestant to Mormon) than yes, they are taking advantage.
A good example would the Missionaries of Charity (Mother Teresa). If someone believes in Christ as a result of the sister’s work, great. If not, they will stay there anyway.
If someone goes to another country to convert the people to "Christianity’ when the country is 99.9% Christian (example, most South American countries are Catholic, therefore Christian) that is wrong. If they are going to those countries because they are poor and the goal is to help the poor, no matter what their Christian affiliation is, that is good.
Mother Teresa is the best modern example of good missionaries, not exploitative missionaries.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Christ said He comes to those in need of a doctor.
He said the poor would always be with us.
He does not come to those who have no need.
And He shows His greatness by choosing the weak and making them strong.
It is amazing to see both traditional Africans surviving in most difficult situations, mother nature herself – not exploitative persons – as the greatest threat to human life. You can be feeling great today and then two days later be dead from cholera. Subsequently, people who live in very harsh conditions develop traditions and ways of doing things that work, and so they are very hard in wanting to change…infection control, clean water, and so on.
Then you meet others who were born in the same conditions and are able to attain a universal perspective, come to first world countries with little culture shock, and work to develop economic markets between affluent countries and developing ones.
Finally, we have a mutual friend from Nigeria, and he finds such profound insights into Scripture that we miss…and the faith has been there for such a short time compared to traditional Christian countries.
In Africa, the faith and vocations is literally exploding. You cannot call that human, but supernatural.
He said the poor would always be with us.
He does not come to those who have no need.
And He shows His greatness by choosing the weak and making them strong.
It is amazing to see both traditional Africans surviving in most difficult situations, mother nature herself – not exploitative persons – as the greatest threat to human life. You can be feeling great today and then two days later be dead from cholera. Subsequently, people who live in very harsh conditions develop traditions and ways of doing things that work, and so they are very hard in wanting to change…infection control, clean water, and so on.
Then you meet others who were born in the same conditions and are able to attain a universal perspective, come to first world countries with little culture shock, and work to develop economic markets between affluent countries and developing ones.
Finally, we have a mutual friend from Nigeria, and he finds such profound insights into Scripture that we miss…and the faith has been there for such a short time compared to traditional Christian countries.
In Africa, the faith and vocations is literally exploding. You cannot call that human, but supernatural.
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Sufjon
Guest
Agreed! It s my understanding that she just did her thing without a lot of jaw flapping. She’s a good example for spiritual people of any faith.Mother Teresa is the best modern example of good missionaries, not exploitative missionaries.
Your friend
Sufjon
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KathleenGee
Guest
I would also add that Catholic missionaries throughout the world have proper form and most intense dedication to Christ in the missions in serving those in need…what is true and proper development – psychologically, in the family and community, and in the global economy, as well as the areas of need in education and medicine.
Ongoing examination of conscience is product to missionary action, that one have the other’s best interest at heart, no patronizing, stereotyping, promoting one’s culture over an another…It is ongoing work to help people to help themselves, and take over their own destiny.
So missionaries taking advantage of poorer countries within the Catholic tradition is always the greatest concern, the cause for continual reflection and reformation.
In times past, hundreds of years ago, people were baptized but without a truly solid catechesis, and thus there were those who brought scandal to the faith. Since then, there is great work in insuring people are well catechized, something that is intense and ongoing.
I see myself writing ongoing a number of times…it is reflective of the life of missionaries, emptying themselves for others.
Mother Theresa was a great example of this as well. There are many like her, but she captured the public’s attention.
Ongoing examination of conscience is product to missionary action, that one have the other’s best interest at heart, no patronizing, stereotyping, promoting one’s culture over an another…It is ongoing work to help people to help themselves, and take over their own destiny.
So missionaries taking advantage of poorer countries within the Catholic tradition is always the greatest concern, the cause for continual reflection and reformation.
In times past, hundreds of years ago, people were baptized but without a truly solid catechesis, and thus there were those who brought scandal to the faith. Since then, there is great work in insuring people are well catechized, something that is intense and ongoing.
I see myself writing ongoing a number of times…it is reflective of the life of missionaries, emptying themselves for others.
Mother Theresa was a great example of this as well. There are many like her, but she captured the public’s attention.
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mtolympus
Guest
The last words Jesus spoke to his diciples before he ascended into heaven were: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” (Matt. 28:19) A church must be doing this to the best of their ability if they truly believe and are following what Jesus taught.Are missionaries taking advantage of poorer countries, especially when they preach their religions (Catholic, non-Catholic, etc) to relatively uneducated people. For example, dwellers in villages in the “under developed” world may not have access to complex works like Summa Theologica, etc. I mean, if they convert to a religion, it’s most likely going to be the one professed by local missionaries or whatever native traditions they have.
Is anyone at all bothered by this? I mean, religious people from a distant rich country coming over and spreading their faith…
Thoughts please.
Thanks.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
The assumption that uneducated are easier to convert than educated is questionable. As is the assumption that rich missionaries are exploiting the poor. It is also questionable that these kinds of queries have any basis is anything but an ideology, ie, no real concern for the poor, just an ideological presumption.Are missionaries taking advantage of poorer countries, especially when they preach their religions (Catholic, non-Catholic, etc) to relatively uneducated people. For example, dwellers in villages in the “under developed” world may not have access to complex works like Summa Theologica, etc. I mean, if they convert to a religion, it’s most likely going to be the one professed by local missionaries or whatever native traditions they have.
Is anyone at all bothered by this? I mean, religious people from a distant rich country coming over and spreading their faith…
Thoughts please.
Thanks.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
perhaps, but not necessarily for instance some of the early missionaries made it a practice to contact the mandarin or other ruler of the country or region first, and whether or not they converted him, at least gain his good will and influence in reaching the rest of the people. If you are going to make this assumption back it up with facts.But aren’t the relatively poor and uneducated more amenable to religious conversion?
.
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KathleenGee
Guest
I would check out the Jesuits, and St. Ignatius, in Japan and other areas…reached the highly educated and cultured…
ETWN had the most fascinating history presented on the Catholics of Japan. A sizeable number were converted by the Jesuits in the 1500’s, and a number of them were persecuted and martyred, with the rest going underground. Those who apostacize were forced to be suspended on some kind of contraption and use their feet to walk over and over in insult over the face of Christ and Mary, His mother.
The Japanese Catholics had no priests. They built little cupboards in their homes with statues of Mary holding the Infant Jesus, but in the style similar to the image of Buddha.
When Japan opened trade with the West, they allowed the foreigners to build churches. A Catholic church, St. Mary’s was built. The priests wondered if any there were any Japanese Catholics who remained and were faithful.
Finally some Japanese came into the church. They asked the priest questions. Then they finally revealed themselves because the sign had been fulfilled. The tradition had been passed down for 200 years that they could finally reveal themselves on 3 conditions: that it was Rome who sent the missionaries, the priest would be celibate, and the church named in honor of Mary. The church was named St. Mary’s, and the priest was sent by Rome, who was celibate.
They began to openly worship and thrive. Then persecution happened again. They suffered persecution, lost their church, but were able to move to another location – Nagasaki. There they built a new church with stone from the side of the seas, taking 5 years to build.
St. Maximilian Kolbe worked there with the Japanese. But the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, some say near or at the Catholic church…and in time after much reflection, the Japanese Catholics saw themselves as the sacrifice, because many of them died, to bring peace to their country.
(There were 7 or 8 Jesuit priests who lived there, surviving the atomic blast, and attributing their protection to living out the message of Fatima.)
The Japanese Catholics there were very intelligent and hard working with most beautiful devotion to Christ and living in His peace that could help direct many of us in the West who live in constant noise…I would say that intense activity has its own ‘noise’.
And going back now to Mexico, in spite of the poor relations between the descending families and kin of conquistadors, the church, under leadership of Dom Bispo Zumarraga, it is even unknown to modern Mexicans today how the Church in Mexico made it the center of learning in the New World. There were indigenous Indian professors who taught at the emerging universities built by the Spaniards, Holy Cross coming to mind. And Bishop Zumaragga gave women and girls the right to an education hundreds of years before North American women were, this being done in the early 1500’s.
So I think the Catholic missionary experience is unique unto its own, and here in the Northwest, the Catholic priests did a better job catechizing because they accepted the Indians at their level, worked within the means of communication they used…like the totem pole, to bring Christ to them. I have visited and did some early work with NW Indians, and there are many who have kept their faith up to today.
ETWN had the most fascinating history presented on the Catholics of Japan. A sizeable number were converted by the Jesuits in the 1500’s, and a number of them were persecuted and martyred, with the rest going underground. Those who apostacize were forced to be suspended on some kind of contraption and use their feet to walk over and over in insult over the face of Christ and Mary, His mother.
The Japanese Catholics had no priests. They built little cupboards in their homes with statues of Mary holding the Infant Jesus, but in the style similar to the image of Buddha.
When Japan opened trade with the West, they allowed the foreigners to build churches. A Catholic church, St. Mary’s was built. The priests wondered if any there were any Japanese Catholics who remained and were faithful.
Finally some Japanese came into the church. They asked the priest questions. Then they finally revealed themselves because the sign had been fulfilled. The tradition had been passed down for 200 years that they could finally reveal themselves on 3 conditions: that it was Rome who sent the missionaries, the priest would be celibate, and the church named in honor of Mary. The church was named St. Mary’s, and the priest was sent by Rome, who was celibate.
They began to openly worship and thrive. Then persecution happened again. They suffered persecution, lost their church, but were able to move to another location – Nagasaki. There they built a new church with stone from the side of the seas, taking 5 years to build.
St. Maximilian Kolbe worked there with the Japanese. But the atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, some say near or at the Catholic church…and in time after much reflection, the Japanese Catholics saw themselves as the sacrifice, because many of them died, to bring peace to their country.
(There were 7 or 8 Jesuit priests who lived there, surviving the atomic blast, and attributing their protection to living out the message of Fatima.)
The Japanese Catholics there were very intelligent and hard working with most beautiful devotion to Christ and living in His peace that could help direct many of us in the West who live in constant noise…I would say that intense activity has its own ‘noise’.
And going back now to Mexico, in spite of the poor relations between the descending families and kin of conquistadors, the church, under leadership of Dom Bispo Zumarraga, it is even unknown to modern Mexicans today how the Church in Mexico made it the center of learning in the New World. There were indigenous Indian professors who taught at the emerging universities built by the Spaniards, Holy Cross coming to mind. And Bishop Zumaragga gave women and girls the right to an education hundreds of years before North American women were, this being done in the early 1500’s.
So I think the Catholic missionary experience is unique unto its own, and here in the Northwest, the Catholic priests did a better job catechizing because they accepted the Indians at their level, worked within the means of communication they used…like the totem pole, to bring Christ to them. I have visited and did some early work with NW Indians, and there are many who have kept their faith up to today.
M
mtolympus
Guest
If Jesus is the Savior of all mankind and the Church you believe in is true, why would you worry about this?But aren’t the relatively poor and uneducated more amenable to religious conversion?
Is it easier to convert them than say, non-religious educated people at some elite Ivy League/MIT type school? BTW, this is just for comparison.
B
bz5
Guest
His/her religion says “none”If Jesus is the Savior of all mankind and the Church you believe in is true, why would you worry about this?
K
KathleenGee
Guest
PathDiagnosis,
You would do well to study the history of Catholic missionaries going way back. They worked very hard to establish schools, higher education, and universities for the indigenous people, noting my previous post here.
My son chose to go to an inner city school. It is Catholic, but targets inner city kids. He had a hard time his first two years. But when they graduated, except two who got involved with premarital sex, they all went to college.
Most of the kids were Baptist, remained Baptist, and we had multiple graduation ceremonies…at the Cathedral, at the school, and diplomas given out at the Baptist church.
My son got a job at the local hospital when he was 16 through this school. The condition to remain was that the student, starting his freshman year, had to be able to hold his job or else he could not stay. They used having a job, dress code, prayer, and other disciplines to work them into academics.
I remember one father who was so upset his teen son did not have any interest going to school there but play basketball. He never entered.
You would do well to study the history of Catholic missionaries going way back. They worked very hard to establish schools, higher education, and universities for the indigenous people, noting my previous post here.
My son chose to go to an inner city school. It is Catholic, but targets inner city kids. He had a hard time his first two years. But when they graduated, except two who got involved with premarital sex, they all went to college.
Most of the kids were Baptist, remained Baptist, and we had multiple graduation ceremonies…at the Cathedral, at the school, and diplomas given out at the Baptist church.
My son got a job at the local hospital when he was 16 through this school. The condition to remain was that the student, starting his freshman year, had to be able to hold his job or else he could not stay. They used having a job, dress code, prayer, and other disciplines to work them into academics.
I remember one father who was so upset his teen son did not have any interest going to school there but play basketball. He never entered.
M
mafh
Guest
I have been thinking about this lately – what are the ethics of proselytizing to vulnerable populations?Are missionaries taking advantage of poorer countries, especially when they preach their religions (Catholic, non-Catholic, etc) to relatively uneducated people. For example, dwellers in villages in the “under developed” world may not have access to complex works like Summa Theologica, etc. I mean, if they convert to a religion, it’s most likely going to be the one professed by local missionaries or whatever native traditions they have.
Is anyone at all bothered by this? I mean, religious people from a distant rich country coming over and spreading their faith…
Thoughts please.
Thanks.
Here is what got me thinking about this: My mother-in-law’s United Methodist church got involved in a Christmas Charity called Operation Christmas Child. For this charity, you fill a shoebox with small gifts, school supplies, etc for a poor child in another country. The items the children want are so modest, especially compared to the wish lists of children in the US, that it really made my heart melt and I decided to fill a shoebox as well. I assumed that they were giving these gifts to children who were already being brought up in a complementary faith. Well, I found out later that the organization that runs this operation is a highly evangelical group that uses these gifts as bribes. They lure the children in with offers of these gifts, then they tell them that the gifts are from Jesus. They give a highly proselytizing presentation and then distribute these comic book tracts to the children that encourage the children to convert to their brand of Chistianity then and there. And, they are targeting extremely poor children in Catholic and Muslim countries.
This just seems so wrong to me… its taking advantage of the developmental vulnerabilities of children. Also, it seems to me that all parents have the right to bring up their children with their chosen religion, and nobody has the right to try to undermine this by targeting their children. What do you think? I
K
KathleenGee
Guest
The Holy Name of Jesus should not be used so lightly among those who have no faith.
Just stating your organization says it all.
Just stating your organization says it all.
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