Are Mormon Apostles the Real Thing?

[why_me]

Since you believe so little is known about the 12 Apostles maybe you will admit that the LDS claim to “restoring” the original 12 apostles has no foundation and is nothing more than opinion. Since all religions are okay if they teach people to be nice to each other, this should be not problem. So LDS apostles as a restoration of the original 12 is nothing more than an opinion or interpretation right? Like a fable where the moral is more important than the reality of the story, right?

What we know is very little since it is all within a few pages of the bible. Hard to get a picture of a life within a few pages. My point being if we had more records of what they said, we just may be shocked about what they had to say. I know that they must have said a lot during their lifespan but what they said has been lost in the wind.

For mormons the restoration of the priesthood and the twelve apostles came from god. It was to give his church an organizational structure that existed after the death of christ.

 

[why_me]

Yet you are the only one who has ever voiced a concern.

I am not concerned but not everyone knows that they are dealing with two people when they correspond with you. And lets face it, the methodist should get a different response than the catholic. It would be helpful to know which one is writing the post.

But at least you guys are united in hating the mormon church.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I understand. But I do think that you have a screen persona but your face persona would be quite different around the mormons. And that is fine. I don’t think that you understand relativism at all. In the catholic and mormon faith, mormons and catholics do fine together as they battle relativism and immorality. No problem at all. There is much that unites them. I have read no where where catholics have been cautioned about being with mormons as they fight same sex marriage together in California. But together they overcame a law that would have turned the concept of family upside down.

You are all about “nice”. Nice is not a doctrine. It isn’t a Sacrament. It isn’t anything but whyme’s Church of Nice. In the end, that is what most mormons do, follow JS footsteps and create their own personal religion. It is a pitfall of agnosticism.

You really should stop calling yourself a Catholic. And stop saying things like, “Mormons believe”. Be honest, and say, “As a Mormon, I believe”.

And turning the concept of family upside down, puhleeze. Talk to me when you are able to denounce polygamy in the same way.

 

[PaulDupre]

Paul, I think that means Paul of Tarsus is an imposter.

No, it simply means that Paul was not one of the twelve. “Apostle” simply means “one who is sent”. Many people could be called apostles in that they are sent (as Paul was sent by the twelve to preach to the gentiles). But they are not not “one of the twelve”. The twelve were never meant to continue as a group after they declared their unique eye-witness testimony of Jesus. Catholic bishops are technically apostles and carry apostolic authority, but we do not call them apostles; we call then bishops, the sucessors of the twelve.

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t think that they would care. The nuns know my mormon background and why I don’t drink coffee after their adoration. No problem. I do my bit for the catholic church. But one thing I can tell you, my catholic friends do not speak negatives about the mormon church around me because they know they will get an ear fill. And all have met my mormon children and admire them for their modesty and values.

You don’t “think that they would care”? Are you serious?

If they knew that you were receiving Holy Communion in the Church, and receiving the sacrament at an lds meeting, I’m sure they’re the ones that would give you an earful.

Doing that not only shows your lack of regard for either faith, it shows a deceitful nature by purposely hiding it.

If you are receiving sacrament at an lds meeting, you are not in a state of grace to receive the Body and Blood of our Lord, and you should know that if you are any kind of Catholic.

I have no doubt in my mind that you have not told them that you are receiving in both places. If in fact you have, I would love to know what they told you. Assuming these people really do exist anyway.

And as far as your children go, I’m sure they are lovely, but are you saying they are above Catholic children? If not, why bring them into this discussion?

 

[twopekinguys]

I am not concerned but not everyone knows that they are dealing with two people when they correspond with you. And lets face it, the methodist should get a different response than the catholic. It would be helpful to know which one is writing the post.

But at least you guys are united in hating the mormon church.

Ok, now that is offensive.

I/We may disagree with the mormon church, but I/We are far from hating it. How dare you say something like that.

Me/Us hating the mormon church? You are the one who takes drive by swipes at the Catholic Church implying we are drunks, among other things. Would you like me to pull some of your quotes?

You are the one who defended nitwit missionaries who desecrated a Catholic shrine basically saying that boys will be boys, or they were just young and immature.

Now you tell us, who’s “anti” is showing?

Just for clarification, since it appears that out of the thousands of people on this board you are the only one who needs clarification. Both of us have read your post, both of us are offended, and both of us are responding to it.

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[Religio71]

You don’t “think that they would care”? Are you serious?

If they knew that you were receiving Holy Communion in the Church, and receiving the sacrament at an lds meeting, I’m sure they’re the ones that would give you an earful.

Doing that not only shows your lack of regard for either faith, it shows a deceitful nature by purposely hiding it.

If you are receiving sacrament at an lds meeting, you are not in a state of grace to receive the Body and Blood of our Lord, and you should know that if you are any kind of Catholic.

I have no doubt in my mind that you have not told them that you are receiving in both places. If in fact you have, I would love to know what they told you. Assuming these people really do exist anyway.

And as far as your children go, I’m sure they are lovely, but are you saying they are above Catholic children? If not, why bring them into this discussion?

HAHA it’s too funny. He goes to Adoration, which is based on the belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist and the authority of the priest to effect that, but then he’s a Mormon too that denies the Real Presence and the authority of the Catholic priesthood.

…

 

[RebeccaJ]

HAHA it’s too funny. He goes to Adoration, which is based on the belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist and the authority of the priest to effect that, but then he’s a Mormon too that denies the Real Presence and the authority of the Catholic priesthood.

…

But it’s nice!

 

[Religio71]

But it’s nice!

As long as everyone’s nice to each other and let’s everyone be apostles and prophets and cardinals and priests, we can worship Shiva, just be nice.

So much for converting the world

Real LDS don’t buy this.

 

[twopekinguys]

HAHA it’s too funny. He goes to Adoration, which is based on the belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist and the authority of the priest to effect that, but then he’s a Mormon too that denies the Real Presence and the authority of the Catholic priesthood.

…

Who’d a thunk it!?!?!

 

[twopekinguys]

Isn’t it amusing that why me has posted elsewhere since his little drive by comments, but hasn’t come back here.

Hmmm wonder why

 

[ricko]

“Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry” (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]). Pope Clement I

“When I had come to Rome, I [visited] Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. And after Anicetus [died], Soter succeeded, and after him Eleutherus. In each succession and in each city there is a continuance of that which is proclaimed by the law, the prophets, and the Lord” (Memoirs, cited in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 4:22 [A.D. 180]). Hegesippus

“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about” (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).
Irenaeus

From the above it looks like the Catholic church was doing just fine during the so called Great Apostasy and the Apostolic Succession continued with no interruptions. This is only a taste of history of the Catholic Church that proves there was no Great Apostasy which is falsely taught by the LDS. This also proves that the LDS apostles were not required and are false themselves.

 

[ParkerD]

“Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry” (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]). Pope Clement I

“When I had come to Rome, I [visited] Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. And after Anicetus [died], Soter succeeded, and after him Eleutherus. In each succession and in each city there is a continuance of that which is proclaimed by the law, the prophets, and the Lord” (Memoirs, cited in Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 4:22 [A.D. 180]). Hegesippus

“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about” (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).
Irenaeus

From the above it looks like the Catholic church was doing just fine during the so called Great Apostasy and the Apostolic Succession continued with no interruptions. This is only a taste of history of the Catholic Church that proves there was no Great Apostasy which is falsely taught by the LDS. This also proves that the LDS apostles were not required and are false themselves.

Rick,
Au contraire,
These quotes show there were disputes about authority and succession, already in that early time period. That is precisely what we have said.

 

[ricko]

Disputes do not make an Apostasy. There have been disputes since day one and even to this day. Even in the LDS there are disputes.

In the early days of the Church it was a learning experience for the Jews to become Christians. Of course there would be disagreements such as in Acts 15 which were all resolved. But to take the “growing pains” of Christianity and turn it into a Great Apostasy is making a mountain out of a molehill. It simply did not happen and the historical record proves it.