Are Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses Christian?

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jane_doe said:
LDS view–
God does not judge us by our knowledge, but by our hearts. Yes, Catholics have a flawed understanding of God, but they devote themselves to Him with all of their hearts, mind, and soul, and that is something honorable and show to be acknowledged.
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On an individual persons level, I would except that and God is the Judge of that. However this is based on the authoritative teaching of each Church. Both teachings cannot be considered “Christian” from either the Catholic or LDS perspective.
 
Michael68 said:
Could you please explain the Catholics, flawed understanding of God?
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I would rather decline the bashing session 🙂
Differences between LDS and Catholic views of God have been described a couple of times in this thread.
 
spiderweb said:
On an individual persons level, I would except that and God is the Judge of that. However this is based on the authoritative teaching of each Church. Both teachings cannot be considered “Christian” from either the Catholic or LDS perspective.
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Yes, LDS believe that the Catholic view is flawed. Like Catholics believe many things about Protestant beliefs are flawed (LDS do as well). That doesn’t mean we should refuse to acknowledge anyone’s honest faith, even if their understanding is flawed.
 
jane_doe said:
Yes, LDS believe that the Catholic view is flawed. Like Catholics believe many things about Protestant beliefs are flawed (LDS do as well). That doesn’t mean we should refuse to acknowledge anyone’s honest faith, even if their understanding is flawed.
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So you see the LDS as the only church in existence that has the fullest, or most complete understanding of who God is? And if so, does this knowledge come from the Bible alone, or do you need those other books you consider to be scripture, to come to that conclusion?
 
jane_doe said:
I would rather decline the bashing session 🙂
Differences between LDS and Catholic views of God have been described a couple of times in this thread.
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It would be great if other Mormon posters would join in that are willing to discuss Mormonism on a deeper theological level.
 
JMM1957 said:
So you see the LDS as the only church in existence that has the fullest, or most complete understanding of who God is?
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Yes, as I imagine you do with the Catholic faith. Doesn’t mean either of us should declare all Protestants to be non-Christian heathens.
 
lax16 said:
It would be great if other Mormon posters would join in that are willing to discuss Mormonism on a deeper theological level.
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I agree, I really appreciate jane_doe being respectful and patient with us all, but hearing from other LDS members would be good also.
 
lax16 said:
It would be great if other Mormon posters would join in that are willing to discuss Mormonism on a deeper theological level.
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If you (or anyone else) would like to talk more, you’re welcome to PM me.
 
I look at the reliability of Mormonism being dependent on its primary author, Joseph Smith. Also, his reliability should be dependent on witnesses to the events of the Joseph Smith story. How do you personally have the confidence that the Joseph Smith story is supernatural?
 
JMM1957 said:
How do you personally have the confidence that the Joseph Smith story is supernatural?
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Short answer yes. The longer answer is getting away from the OP here, so I suggest moving to another venue.
 
jane_doe said:
Short answer yes. The longer answer is getting away from the OP here, so I suggest moving to another venue.
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So would you say then, that being able to legitimately call oneself a Christian, all they need to do is be baptized and profess your faith, like in Romans 10:9-10, “9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.”
 
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jane_doe:
The problem is Jane is that because Mormonism is a break off of Protestantism you have the same preconcieved assumptions.

You are ignore 7 books of the old testament, you ignore how the actual bible was formulated, you assume the trustworthiness of scripture. You ignore that when the early Christians spoke of the Church they used words and phrases like “church in Rome”, “primacy of peter”, and “catholic church”.

You can not ignore the Catholic Church because it actually explains these inconsistencies in protestants a prior beliefs.
 
rcwitness said:
I believe “consubstantial” is the simple Catholic answer. 😉
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Lets try this way - this really solidified the Trinity for me (I’m stealing this from a youtube video so if everyone agrees, thank you…If not, its not my idea)

These 3 statements which I believe form the foundation of the Trinity and all taught in the new testament. I’m not going to site scripture references here but can on request.
  1. There is ONE God
  2. God the Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit are separate persons (Father sends the Spirit, Jesus prays to the Father, etc)
  3. God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are each described/treated as God
So the Trinity is a word that describes all 3 “conditions” existing at once. The Council of Nicaea kind of “backed” into this because there is really no way to just define it (which is why Arius was able to gain so much traction).

WOULD ALL CATHOLICS AGREE WITH THIS BEFORE WE GO FURTHER ???

Now for instance, a Jehovah’s Witness would agree with the first 2 but not the last.
 
ajcstr said:
Lets try this way - this really solidified the Trinity for me (I’m stealing this from a youtube video so if everyone agrees, thank you…If not, its not my idea)

These 3 statements which I believe form the foundation of the Trinity and all taught in the new testament. I’m not going to site scripture references here but can on request.
  1. There is ONE God
  2. God the Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit are separate persons (Father sends the Spirit, Jesus prays to the Father, etc)
  3. God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are each described/treated as God
So the Trinity is a word that describes all 3 “conditions” existing at once. The Council of Nicea kind of “backed” into this because there is really no way to just define it.

WOULD ALL CATHOLICS AGREE WITH THIS BEFORE WE GO FURTHER ???

Now for instance, a Jehovah’s Witness would agree with the first 2 but not the last.
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We agree but have people 1800 years later wanting to re-define the Trinity and what it means to be a Christian.

Definitions do or do not matter? Let’s start with that! 🙂
 
lax16 said:
We agree but have people 1800 years later wanting to re-define the Trinity and what it means to be a Christian.

Definitions do or do not matter? Let’s start with that! 🙂
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We agree that we disagree, who is right or wrong is irrelevant because we can throw up 52,000 posts on this thread and never resolve the thing. So from the point of this thread on a CATHOLIC forum, if a Mormon and/or Jehovah’s Witness is NOT a Christian, what are they lacking or what have they added for them not to be considered so.

So by stating how a Catholic on a Catholic forum would define the Trinity and ask how THEY would define the Trinity is a legitimate question I think. As I say, I know how a JW would respond because I have talked with them enough. I don’t know how a Mormon would respond.
 
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