Are Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses Christian?

[Hatikvah]

I would like it if the JW’s would simply name any JW prior to 16th century. I have asked many times and - nothing.

Peace!!!

Many Jehovah’s Witnesses regard Michael Servetus, a Protestant Radical Reformer from Spain who was killed in Geneva for his disbelief in the Trinity (it was a sort of modalist heresy, I think), is often regarded as a “spiritual ancestor.”

Of course, he had no affiliation with the Jehovah’s Witnesses or even anything like it. The closest thing to him today would be… Arianism.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Agreed - the list said WITHOUT training

Formal seminary training is of fairly recent practice relative to the practice of the 2000 yr history of the church

Now you are going to challenge my cut and paste skills…

An active interest in proselytizing nonbelievers; Unless referring to say third world countries, I don’t think that Catholics proselytize the general population around them like evangelicals, JW or Mormons. Proselytizing no, evangelizing yes. Check out the Institute of Catholic Culture, Bp Barrons talks, EWTN or a host of others.

A clergy drawn from the laity, without necessarily requiring collegiate or seminary training Clergy is a group separate from the laity requiring a fair amount of training.

All Catholic clergy are drawn from the male baptized priesthood of believers, not apart from them

Strong emphasis upon education, both in the secular and religious arenas; Don’t know that this would apply to Catholics either. I think Catholics are generally very uneducated in religious arenas.

I disagree. There are many uneducated Catholics, but the Church encourages education

Belief that one’s marriage can potentially continue into the next life, if one is faithful to the religion; I would think that Catholics would follow Matt 22:30 “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.” Now a husband and wife may be together in heaven, but not AS husband and wife.

This varies if one is Latin Catholic, Byzantine Catholic or Oriental Catholic. Its not dogma.

 

[ajcstr]

Of course they are drawn from the laity (not sure where else they would come from) but with respect to the Catholic priesthood, I am saying once they become priests, they are no longer part of the laity. That is considered a vocation in itself.

In other faiths, bishops, ministers, etc don’t really alter their lives that much as far as having families and so forth.

 

[rcwitness]

With respect to the Catholic priesthood, I am saying once they become priests, they are no longer part of the laity. That is considered a vocation in itself.

Yes, they become “set apart” for ministering.

 

[ajcstr]

Yes, they become “set apart” for ministering.

So isn’t that different than Mormons/JW (see my last post again, I edited it)?

 

[jane_doe]

So isn’t that different than Mormons/JW (see my last post again, I edited it)?

Speaking for LDS: pretty much all male church members are priests. They hold secular day jobs, and then spend volunteer hours working church positions-- positions which change every few years.

 

[ajcstr]

Speaking for LDS: pretty much all male church members are priests. They hold secular day jobs, and then spend volunteer hours working church positions-- positions which change every few years.

So they are…
"A clergy drawn from the laity, without necessarily requiring collegiate or seminary training "

I feel like I’m talking to myself here (or to my wife)…again, I contend this statement is not true for Catholic religious for the reasons I have stated.

 

[jane_doe]

So they are…
"A clergy drawn from the laity, without necessarily requiring collegiate or seminary training "

I feel like I’m talking to myself here…again, I contend this statement is not true for Catholic religious for the reasons I have stated.

I wasn’t aguring with you in that point. Then agian, this was orginally comparing to Islamic practice, and I don’t know their traditions at all.

 

[Horton]

I wasn’t aguring with you in that point. Then agian, this was orginally comparing to Islamic practice, and I don’t know their traditions at all.

And you said in this post

Catholicism also share much of this list.

What many have been trying to explain that Catholicism actually share very little of that list.

 

[jane_doe]

And you said in this post

What many have been trying to explain that Catholicism actually share very little of that list.

About a third. We could also make another list of other things Catholics and Muslims have in common.

 

[rcwitness]

About a third. We could also make another list of other things Catholics and Muslims have in common.

… yes, but unfortunately it won’t change the fact that the Church of God declared the belief in the Consubstantial Trinity necessary to Christianity (Belief in Jesus).

 

[jane_doe]

… yes, but unfortunately it won’t change the fact that the Church of God declared the belief in the Consubstantial Trinity necessary to Christianity (Belief in Jesus).

Making lists of things-in-common doesn’t change anyone’s beliefs or prove anything about those beliefs. The only thing it proves is that you can make a list.

 

[Horton]

So isn’t that different than Mormons/JW (see my last post again, I edited it)?

I don’t know much about JW clergy but I do know that LDS “clergy” is pulled from the laity and they serve for a limited amount of time. They don’t have trained clergy such as the Catholic Church does or even many mainline protestant churches who have an educated and paid minister/pastor.

The LDS teach that all faithful young males become part of the “priesthood” around the age of 12-13ish. This allows them to serve the bread cubes and water as their communion. So when the LDS about the priesthood the meaning is very different from what Catholics and other Christian faiths understand the priesthood to be.

 

[Horton]

About a third. We could also make another list of other things Catholics and Muslims have in common.

Making lists of things-in-common doesn’t change anyone’s beliefs or prove anything about those beliefs. The only thing it proves is that you can make a list.

So let’s make a list that doesn’t prove anything?

 

[Padres1969]

I don’t know much about JW clergy but I do know that LDS “clergy” is pulled from the laity and they serve for a limited amount of time. They don’t have trained clergy such as the Catholic Church does or even many mainline protestant churches who have an educated and paid minister/pastor.

The LDS teach that all faithful young males become part of the “priesthood” around the age of 12-13ish. This allows them to serve the bread cubes and water as their communion. So when the LDS about the priesthood the meaning is very different from what Catholics and other Christian faiths understand the priesthood to be.

Yeah the form of priesthood for the Mormons is nothing like the Catholic one. The way the list posted earlier was formatted, yes both pull their clergy from the laity, but the source of the priesthood is about all the two churches share. And technically I think you’d be hard pressed to find a Christian church that doesn’t have it’s priests come from the laity initially. But just coming from the laity doesn’t mean they’re anything alike.

 

[Horton]

Yeah the form of priesthood for the Mormons is nothing like the Catholic one. The way the list posted earlier was formatted, yes both pull their clergy from the laity, but the source of the priesthood is about all the two churches share. And technically I think you’d be hard pressed to find a Christian church that doesn’t have it’s priests come from the laity initially. But just coming from the laity doesn’t mean they’re anything alike.

 

[BornInMarch]

How to determine if someone is christian.

“Do you believe Jesus Christ was the son of God?” If yes, then Chistian.

THAT’S IT!

Even if they also believe in multiple Heavens and polygamy, that just means they follow an atypical version of Christianity.

 

[Horton]

How to determine if someone is christian.

“Do you believe Jesus Christ was the son of God?” If yes, then Chistian.

THAT’S IT!

Even if they also believe in multiple Heavens and polygamy, that just means they follow an atypical version of Christianity.

Even if they don’t believe Jesus Christ is the same Jesus Christ Christians believe in? The LDS believe Jesus Christ is the literal biological son of God, as in conceived in Mary by God through “normal” means. As in God & Mary had intercourse and Jesus was conceived. They deny Jesus was wholly divine and wholly human. They don’t believe Jesus Christ is God.

So it takes a little more that just saying “Do you believe Jesus Christ was (is) the son of God?”

 

[Michael68]

Even if they don’t believe Jesus Christ is the same Jesus Christ Christians believe in? The LDS believe Jesus Christ is the literal biological son of God, as in conceived in Mary by God through “normal” means. As in God & Mary had intercourse and Jesus was conceived. They deny Jesus was wholly divine and wholly human. They don’t believe Jesus Christ is God.

So it takes a little more that just saying “Do you believe Jesus Christ was (is) the son of God?”

I agree

 

[gazelam]

The LDS believe Jesus Christ is the literal biological son of God, as in conceived in Mary by God…

This is a true statement.

…through “normal” means. As in God & Mary had intercourse and Jesus was conceived.

This is a false statement.

They deny Jesus was wholly divine and wholly human.

This is a true statement. We believe He is now only fully divine.

They don’t believe Jesus Christ is God.

This is a false statement.