Are Mormons and Unitarians Christians?

[Fauken]

Your statement from the book of Matthew 16:18-19 does Not STATE that Peter was the pope lol.

I hope you don’t believe that simply because the word “Pope” isn’t in the Bible.

Jesus asked Peter who do the people say that he is and peter said the Christ.

Alright.

So Jesus said regarding to the statement now upon this rock he will build his church.

So let me get this straight. You say that Jesus wasn’t referring to Peter, who He literally just re-named rock not a minute earlier, who is always listed first before all other Apostles, who alone was asked to feed Christ’s sheep and protect His flock, whose doctrine Paul strove to conform to, was not leader of the Church? I don’t see how you can make that jump and say James was.

I go to Church, I worship Jesus, NOT peter lol.

Great, we don’t worship St. Peter nor any of his successors either! A Prime Minister does not get power by himself. He acts on behalf of his King. The Pope acts on behalf of Christ, and all authority that he has is from Christ.

Besides the very first organized church was the counsil of Jerusalem.

First Council, yes, but the Church existed before hand.

But it must be through him as it is written.

Sure. And if He established a Church, then wouldn’t we be still going through Him?

lighting candles

praying to statues

For someone claiming to be a fallen away Catholic, you seem to be ignorant of the teachings of your former beliefs.

Praying to people in Heaven because they can not hear our prayers.

To be more specific, we ask for their intercession. To pray for us.

we are sinners

Yes.

the payment for sin is death

Yup.

Jesus is the ONLY payment for sin

Yes He is.

A person must be born again/from above John 3:1-8

Through a valid baptism.

We are save from grace and a gift from God Ephesians 2:8-9.

Yup.

As long as what they learn is from the Bible and truth.

Is Scripture the pillar of truth?

Also again, could we please move this discussion?

 

[hope]

If it’s not in the Bible, it has no truth.

Scripture that supports this statement?

 

[SnowRose]

If it’s not in the Bible, it has no truth.

If you added concepts afterwards, they are not in the Bible. That is circular reasoning.

 

[hope]

If you added concepts afterwards, they are not in the Bible. That is circular reasoning.

I am really dense. It might be that I am tired and it is time for bed but I don’t understand?

 

[SnowRose]

James said It’s not true if it’s not in the bible
You said Show me where the scriptures say that.
Approximate quotes.

You are asking him to prove that something is scriptual if it’s not in the bible, by a bible quote.

And I need coffee.

 

[hope]

You are asking him to prove that something is scriptural if it’s not in the bible, by a bible quote.

No that is not what I was asking. His statement is that if It isn’t in the Bible it isn’t true. He has set the parameters. His statement must be supported by scripture according to him otherwise it is untrue. Yes I can see the circular reasoning his statement produces.
I will join you in a cup of tea

 

[SnowRose]

But you cannot prove the truthfulness of the bible by scripture written after the books in it. That’s just conjecture. Or possibly ongoing revelations.
And no one writes a text saying in essence ”This is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing written after this text may add to it.”

More tea, I guess.

 

[lilypadrees]

Please prove that James was the brother of Jesus and why you believe they were brothers and not cousins.

 

[guanophore]

Praying to people in Heaven because they can not hear our prayers.

How is it that Jesus could have a conversation with Moses and Elijah?

What makes you think they can’t hear?

Revelation 6:10
10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”

If they don’t know what is happening here on earth, how do they know He has not yet avenged their blood?

Hebrews 11 lists all those who have gone on before us in faith, then summarizes this:
Heb 12:l Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses…

The saints are in heaven as witnesses to our deeds. They are not “asleep” and know what is happening here.

 

[guanophore]

But believing that I we are sinners Romans 3:23. That the payment for sin is death Romans 6:23. That Jesus is the ONLY payment for sin. A person must be born again/from above John 3:1-8 We are save from grace and a gift from God Ephesians 2:8-9.

James, perhaps you are not aware that the New Testament was written by, for, and about Catholics. All the authors are Catholic, and there is nothing in it that is not Catholic! All these verses represent Catholic faith.

 

[lilypadrees]

As Jesus SAYS in the Bible. The ONLY people who are Christians, are the People who have a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ. As Jesus SAYS in John 3:1-8 a person must be born again to see the kingdom of Heaven. The words of Jesus John 3:1-8. That means we have admitted to being a sinner Romans 3:23. Believe that the payment/price for sin is death Romans 6:23. Jesus’ death is the ONLY payment for our sin. Surrendered our life to Jesus. Confess and repent ANY sins that we remember committing throughout our life. Then live by the word of God/The Bible. Jesus teaches us in the Bible that Christianity is not a religion, it’s a way of life. (New Testament)

Show us in the Bible the exact verse where Jesus uses the word “Christian” to describe His followers. He doesn’t.

No Catholic denies the necessity of having a personal relationship with Jesus. We have that. From the tone of your posts, it sounds like you believe that Catholics aren’t Christians and that we don’t have a personal relationship with Him. Why is that?

Show us in the Bible, please, where Jesus says that Christianity isn’t a religion, it’s a way of life.

 

[guanophore]

As Jesus SAYS in the Bible. The ONLY people who are Christians, are the People who have a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ.

Where in the Bible does it talk about having a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ?

I think you have fallen into the heresy of Sola Scriptura, JamesofThunder.

What I typed I was not influenced by a Pastor, a priest, tradition, or the politically correct media.

You do not realize where or how you were influenced, but you have been. You are interpreting the Scripture according to Reformation doctrines that were created 1500 years after Christ.

I posted scripture from the Bible. If you are uncomfortable with what the Bible says you need to take that up with God, not me. It’s his word not mine.

What is yours is the interpretation. You have taken a series of verses and strung them together to support a doctrine you have been given to believe that is not consistent with what Jesus taught.

Why did you come here to CAF? You don’t seem to be interested in Catholic Answers. You seem to want to evangelize Catholics into your modern innovations of doctrine.

You say that the roman pontiff and the keys he holds he ALSO binds in Heaven??? lol Who made that up???Show me WHERE in the Bible it says this???

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

The Pope is the successor of Peter, and the keys were passed to him.

With all respect you can’t make up the word of God and say that it’s the truth.

With all due respect, this is what you do!

What I posted as the definition of a Christian IS in the Bible!

If you believe this, you should not have any trouble finding the verse!

the disciples were first called “Christians” in Antioch

This was after Jesus was gone to heaven. Jesus never said anything about who is a “Christian”. He also never said you have to have a “personal relationship” with Him. This is a modern American evangelical innovation.

There are MANY VERSES that say what I posted and that is BECAUSE I got it from scripture.

Good! We love our Catholic book, so bring it on!

What you don’t understand is that I am an ex catholic and I know what is taught.

Clearly not.

If it’s not in the Bible, it has no truth.

Where is THAT in the bible?

You have been misled. But I believe your heart is sincere.

 

[lilypadrees]

I don’t know which denomination you belong to, James. But I notice you stop at Ephesians 2:9. As you have read the Bible 6 going on 7 times now, according to your posts, how can you forget verse 10?

Ephesians 2:10: “For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.”

 

[lilypadrees]

You may be an ex-Catholic. But as to your claim that you know what the Catholic Church teaches, you have yet to prove any such knowledge. What you know is anti -Catholic teaching.

 

[hope]

But you cannot prove the truthfulness of the bible by scripture written after the books in it. That’s just conjecture. Or possibly ongoing revelations.
And no one writes a text saying in essence ”This is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing written after this text may add to it.”

More tea, I guess.

I am lost in your post so I had someone else read it. They thought what you are saying is that you can’t prove the bible true by the bible itself. They also said we are not talking about the same things.

 

[BartholomewB]

I’m pretty sure the answer is No, you are not validly baptized. The only way to get a foolprooof answer would be ask a Catholic priest, giving him the precise name and full details of the church, sect, or denomination that baptized you. The casual approach displayed by the girl who baptized you suggests that she probably doesn’t belong to any of the churches duly recognized by the Catholic Church in this connection.

 

[hope]

Praying to people in Heaven because they can not hear our prayers. Not praying to statues. But believing that I we are sinners Romans 3:23.

I doubt if James will come back I believe he is a drive by anti-catholic who if does stay will soon be permanently suspended
[/QUOTE]
I find nowhere in scripture that the Saints in heaven cannot hear us ask for them to intercede for us, just as I would ask another friend, saints our are friends, to pray for me. Just as Paul asked to be prayed for. Scripture says that God is the God of the living not the dead. Mark 12:27 and just as Jesus said to the Sadducees You are greatly misled so you too are greatly misled. Catholics do not pray to statues that too you have been greatly misled.

A person must be born again/from above John 3:1-8

Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

From above yes through baptism.

As long as what they learn is from the Bible and truth.

15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

 

[hope]

You left thing out.

1. Jesus changes that name of Simon to a funny name, rock. Now a days to be named an inanimate object is not uncommon but then it was. He named him rock and you see no significance. Only four times does God change peoples names. It was always significant.
2. Scripture says that the Church is built
   Ephesians 2:20

So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones
members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone
When Jesus spoke of the rock, He was clear that it was not Himself He spoke of but the person He had just renamed.

1. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

The you is Peter.

James, the brother of Jesus was the FIRST LEADER of that church and he wasn’t a pope. This is in the book of Acts, in the Bible.

Acts 15 does not support your statement. It does not say that James was the leaded of the Church.
Was James the Real Leader of the Early Church?

 

[hope]

There are two men named James among the disciples. One, of course, is the brother of John and the son of Zebedee. This cannot be him then. So, this is the other James, called in Scripture James the less:
Mark 15:40: “There were also women looking on afar off: among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less, and of Joseph, and Salome.”
So James is indeed the son of a woman named Mary. Not only that, but Joseph is his brother.
Matt 10:3: “…'James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddeus.”
This too is talking of James the less, as the other James, son of Zebedee, is spoken of in the previous verse. Alphaeus is this James’ father, not Joseph, the husband of Mary, mother of the Lord.

 

[JamesOfThunder]

Also keep in mind that Jesus said upon this rock he will build his church. Not upon YOU peter (the rock) he will build his church. Keep in mind that the church did not start until the Day of Pentecost, which was later on. In the book of ACTS