Are Mormons and Unitarians Christians?

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The only thing missing from my Bible are the Apocryphal books which were added to the Catholic Bible in 1546. As to why I trust it, the amount of archeological findings, tablets, scrolls, proof of places, names etc. have more than solidified my trust in God’Word. Do I believe that ONLY Catholics will go to Heaven “except those that were ignorant of the Church’s teachings”? No. Which is the same answer I gave to an elder who was asking the “80 questions” one must go through before being baptized in the JW’s. The elder told me I shouldn’t be baptized then and I left the room in tears. While off by myself, in tears before The LORD, a thought came to mind that was not my own. “You’re right Janice, only I know the heart of a man. No man can make that decision”. I went back into that room and said this to the elder. “I believe that we are living in the last days. I also believe that there are people who truly love God but have been burned by organized religion. I believe there are people who are caught up in a false religion who also love Jesus. So, because I trust Jehovah, and because His Word says that ‘His people will know His voice and will hear Him call’, they will hear Him in those last seconds and they will come out of the false religions. Those that truly love God and have received Jesus as their Savior…will be the ‘True Church’. I AM being baptized tomorrow and you cant stop me! I Have Asked Jesus into my heart and have surrendered my life to Him”. I still believe the same way Sir, and that was over 39 years ago. My biggest struggle with any church? “You must be a member of our church to have salvation”! I heard that again while listening to Catholic Radio and it bothered me yet again, thus, the start of my dialogue on this site. This ste popped up in my email and so…here I am. I don’t have a problem with not agreeing on everything that we each believe is true concerning things that won’t hurt our salvation. But when I hear that, “No, you are NOT saved because you don’t accept all the teachings of the Catholic Church”, then it bothers me and I turn the radio off. No man knows my heart, but God knows, and how grateful I am for His Tender Mercies towards this sinful, arrogant and prideful woman who begs His forgiveness daily. How my heart longs to be able to see people as He see them and to love people as He does. For now I see in a mirror dimly, but then I will see clearly. Blessings.
 
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Jazz said:
The only thing missing from my Bible are the Apocryphal books which were added to the Catholic Bible in 1546.
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This is not correct. The deuterocanonical books have always been a part of the Septuagint, which in turn pre-dates Jesus Christ. Not even all of the deuterocanonical books are in the Catholic Bible! OUR Bible is missing books! The Byzantines, Syrians, and Copts have more extensive canons.

There are also other extra-biblical books that are missing from everyone’s Bible. Why is it that the Shepherd of Hermas is excluded from your Protestant Bible? As a Catholic I can tell you why it’s missing from our canon, but thats because I recognize the role of the Church’s tradition in settling these sorts of things. Remember, you’re the one coming from a position of the sufficiency of scripture. So please, tell me how it is that you know that the Shepherd of Hermas (or any other truly apocryphal books) doesn’t belong in the New Testament canon.
 
Are there no Catholic bookstores where you live, @Jazz? I’ve been in many Christian bookstores. And in my experience, they have zilch to little material specific to Catholics. Christian bookstores tend to cater more to Protestant denominations. A Catholic is fortunate if there is a Catholic Bible to be found in such a bookstore. Did the bookstore you owned and operated have Catholic Bibles, @Jazz?

Any Catholic who wants Catholic Bibles, Catholic books, Catholic resource materials, rosaries, mantillas/head coverings/veils, statues of St Joseph, prayer cards, etc, is going to frequent a Catholic bookstore for their needs if there is one in their locale.

Now, of course, there is EWTN’s Religious Catalogue, which is a treasure trove of Catholic materials. I thank God every day that Mother Angelica listened to God’s Voice and began EWTN and added the catalogue.

And of course, here at Catholic Answers, we are so blessed because there are so many wonderful apologists and authors whose books can be bought. And priests and deacons who share their knowledge and insights with us all.
 
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Sorry I didn’t get back to all of you sooner. I haven’t been on my computer…Throughout the years one thing I have learned is to read the BIBLE, not to assume what it says but read it and hear the word of God while reading it. To answer your question no where in scripture it say Jesus’ brothers and sisters are the children of Mary the wife of Clopas. Now what I am going to type is from my catholic Bible… Mark 6:3…Is he (referring to Jesus) not the CARPENTER, the son of MARY AND the BROTHER of JAMES and JOSES and JUDAS and SIMON? And are not HIS SISTERS here with us?.. Matthew : 12: 46-47… While he (Jesus) was still speaking to the crowds, his Mother AND Brothers appeared outside, wishing to speak to him. Your Mother AND YOUR BROTHERS are standing outside, asking to speak with you… Matthew 13:55-56 Is he not the Carpenter’s son? Is not HIS mother NAMED Mary and HIS BROTHERS, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Are not HIS all with us?..There are other verses as well that support this…Can’t argue with scripture.
 
Hope I have to kindly disagree with you. There are different translations. KJV says cousin, yours says kinsman meaning family. My catholic Bible says relative. etc etc
 
I’m glad you read Acts 15 and I don’t mean that as a wise remark. The fact that you read it might make it easier to explain. You are correct that Peter did speak at the council. He spoke because he was a member of the council. But as you read Paul and Barnabas also spoke. In fact everyone got quiet when Paul and Barnabas spoke. But as you continue to read you will see in Acts 15:19 James was the last to speak. He had the final say. He is the one who wrote the letter to the council regarding his final decision. It read (Acts 15:19) It is in my (JUDGEMENT), therefore that we out to stop troubling gentiles who turn to God, but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood. For Moses for generations now has had those proclaim him in every town, as he has been read in the Synagogues every sabbath… This I typed from my catholic Bible. You have been asking me a lot of question in which I enjoy. BUT now I have one small question for you? WHERE in the Bible is the word pope. Where does it say that Peter’s title is pope?
 
I sent you a response regarding the council of Jerusalem but you may have to scroll up or down to read it. I think I answered it in the wrong reply box.
 
TOmNossor said:
My claims are more modest than whatever “Mormon supportable” means. My claims are that there are a number of areas where the early church views align with the views espoused by the CoJCoLDS and where the DEVELOPED (aka CHANGED) view of the MODERN Catholic Church is different.
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Still nope. No Christian has ever believed or taught that God the Father is a human man.

Looking in shadows and claiming to fill them in with a Mormon narrative. That, is sophistry. Could just as well imagine to fill them with something else…anything at all. How about, aliens, that’s always popular.
 
The CCC doesn’t even call protestants Christians. In fact, the CCC talks a lot about Christian faith and such while referring to Catholics only. The best the CCC can do is say we “honor” protestants with the name Christian. Sort of like an honorary degree…huh.

So why get hung up about Mormans and Unitarians
 
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There are all sorts of translations and it is a legitimate translation to use cousins however, the Greek word used is 4773 suggenes {soong-ghen-ace’} from 4862 and 1085; TDNT - 7:736,1097; adj 1) of the same kin, akin to, related by blood 2) in a wider sense, of the same nation, a fellow countryman. So it is more correct to use kinsman. Note that the Greek does have a word for cousin yet it wasn’t used here.
I should also point out to you that Jesus gave the care of Mary over to John something that would not have been necessary if she had other sons. Each of the brothers mentioned can be shown to have other mothers. Never in scripture is anyone said to be Mary’s son accept Jesus which He is referred to as THE son of Mary. The culture of the Jews would not have allowed younger siblings to give advice or speak to Jesus as is shown in scripture.
The title Pope is not in scripture but the office is. Do you believe in the Trinity? Where is that name in scripture?
I had hoped you would have read my link. Maybe you missed but here it is again.
Was James the Real Leader of the Early Church?
  1. Peter’s name occurs first in all lists of apostles (Mt 10:2, Mk 3:16, Lk 6:14, Acts 1:13), except Galatians 2. Matthew even calls him the “first” (10:2).
  2. Peter alone receives a new name, Rock, solemnly conferred (Jn 1:42, Mt 16:18).
  3. Peter is regarded by Jesus as the Chief Shepherd after himself (Jn 21:15-17), singularly by name, and over the universal Church, even though others have a similar but subordinate role (Acts 20:28, 1 Pt 5:2).
  4. Peter alone among the apostles is mentioned by name as having been prayed for by Jesus Christ in order that his “faith may not fail” (Lk 22:32).
  5. Peter alone among the apostles is exhorted by Jesus to “strengthen your brethren” (Lk 22:32).
  6. Peter first confesses Christ’s divinity (Mt 16:16).
  7. Peter alone is told that he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation (Mt 16:17).
  8. Peter is regarded by the Jews (Acts 4:1-13) as the leader and spokesman of Christianity.
  9. Peter is regarded by the common people in the same way (Acts 2:37-41; 5:15).
In Acts, Peter gave the sermon at Pentecost (Acts 1:14-36), led the replacing of Judas (1:22), worked the first miracle of the Church age (3:6-12), and condemned Ananias and Sapphira (5:2-11). His mere shadow worked miracles (5:15); he was the first person after Christ to raise the dead (9:40), and he took the gospel to the Gentiles (Acts 10). Peter’s name appears at least 54 times in Acts; James appears a total of four times.
 
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Here are the verses, JamesOfThunder.

Matthew 27:55-61
Mark 15:40; 47; 16:10
Luke 23:49-56; 24:10

Other verses:

Matthew 27:61
Matthew 10:3
Luke 24:18
Luke 8:2-3
Mark 3:21
Matthew 27:56
Mark 16:8
 
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I wish I knew who the author is of this but I don’t know.

Matthew 13:55 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”

Mark 6:2-3 - “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”

Let’s begin with James. There are two men named James among the disciples. One, of course, is the brother of John and the son of Zebedee. This cannot be him then. So, this is the other James, called in Scripture James the less:
Mark 15:40: “There were also women looking on afar off: among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less, and of Joseph, and Salome.” (emphasis added)
So James is indeed the son of a woman named Mary. Not only that, but Joseph is his brother. That’s two of the four, right? Then, in Matthew, reciting the names of the twelve:
Matt 10:3: “…'James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddeus.” (emphasis added)
This too is talking of James the less, as the other James, son of Zebedee, is spoken of in the previous verse. It is NOT a trick or really that hard! Alphaeus is this James’ father, not Joseph, the husband of Mary, mother of the Lord.

Now go to John also speaking of those witnessing the Crucifixion:
John 19:25: “Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother (Mary) and His mothers sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.” (emphasis added)
Look up John 19:25 at http://www.blueletterbible.org/ and click the ‘C’ icon (for the Strong’s Concordance), then click the Strong’s number for the name Cleophas. It comes up “father of James the less, the husband of Mary the sister of the mother of Jesus.”

Did you get that? That Mary, who was the mother of James the less, and of Joseph, from Mark 15:40, is the wife of Cleophas, the father of James the less, and she is called the ‘sister’ of Our Lord’s mother - Mary!
 
Continued

So, two of the four ‘brothers’ have been identified as the children of parents other than Joseph and the Virgin Mary. Of the brothers named, that still leaves Jude and Simon. Next, Jude:
Acts 1:13 “…James, the son of Alphaeus , and Simon Zelo’tes, and Jude the brother of James…” (emphasis added)
There goes Jude out of the mix! Matter of fact, Jude says the same in his own epistle:
Jude 1:1 “Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James…” (emphasis added)
Lastly, Simon. Simon, called the Zealot, is identified as coming from Cana, not Nazareth as were Joseph, Mary and the Christ!
Luke 6:15 “and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot,” (emphasis added)

Mark 3:18 “Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean…” (emphasis added)

Matt 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. (emphasis added)
Simon is a Cananean, while Jesus is a Nazarene!

We see that Simon the Zealot being from Cana, and a ‘brethren’ or ‘brother’ of the Christ. Let’s go to John’s Gospel, chapter 2. Mary and Our Lord are invited to a wedding there! So, close business associates, maybe, of Joseph from the carpentry trade, or more likely - family, or brethren, relatives, are having this wedding! Like, maybe the Holy Family had actual kinfolk in Cana, be they cousins, in-laws, nephews, aunts, uncles, all of which are routinely called ‘brethren’!

Remember what Mary said to the servants? She told them to ‘Do as He says.’

Think about that a second? What would give this humble woman from Nazareth any position to so speak to the servants of someone else in an entirely different town, at their wedding? The simplest and most easily understood answer would be – she is a family relation to those giving the wedding feast…

So Simon is from Cana, and a ‘brother’ of the Lord! He’s not a sibling though, but very likely related. And James, Joseph and Jude all have the same father and mother, and it is not Joseph and the Virgin Mary, but their mother is named Mary and called the sister of Jesus’ mother Mary. Even here ‘sister’ may not mean blood sibling, or we have two sisters with the same name in the same family.
 
Jesus gave the care of Mary over to John something that would not have been necessary if she had other sons. Each of the brothers mentioned can be shown to have other mothers. Never in scripture is anyone said to be Mary’s son accept Jesus which He is referred to as THE son of Mary. The culture of the Jews would not have allowed younger siblings to give advice or speak to Jesus as is shown in scripture.
 
hope said:
Mark 6:2-3 - “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”
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Here’s how I will explain this to my children when they get old enough:

-Does our Bible warn us about many Bad things so we can avoid them? Kids will say “Yes”
-So are Good people or Bad people making these claims about Jesus (Mk 6:6)? Kids will say “Bad people!”
-Do you think these Bad people voted to crucify Jesus? Kids will say “Yes!”
-Did Jesus like being unfairly accused and lied about by the Bad people? Kids will say “Noooo”
-Now should we ever believe what Bad people say about him? Kids will say “No way!”
-But what if we do believe what Bad people say about Jesus, will he want to be our friend? Kids will say “Noo!”
-Okay kids! Can you give some reasons why?

younger: - “cause… when we believe Bad people… then it makes us like the same as them… cause… if… we believe what Bad people say about Jesus… then… it means we want to be friends with them instead of Jesus”

older: “okay its like…even if we believe what Bad people say about Jesus… but… we still tried to be friends with Jesus at the same time… that wouldn’t work because we wouldn’t know where to find him… because Bad people don’t like Jesus, so Jesus hides away from them… and so… we’ll also have trouble finding Jesus as long as we believe the Bad people because it makes us like them… even if we arent really Bad people… ya know?”

-Great answers kids!
And for 2000 years now Jesus has never hid away from his Church. Scientifically verifiable miracles and wonders give us all the worldly evidence that the weakest in faith coul ever need.

Search and Rescue parties seek for valuable things that were once lost. By nature they continually break away and splinter, so they can comb through looking for what is lost. But when teams search for God they never up the search.

People who have something arent looking for it, stay united around it and dont search. The folly of the Search and Rescue teams is their belief in Bad people. They became deceived into believing something was lost when it wasnt, and still is not.

But they keep searching; the Blind leading their blindfolded as they drive past their treasure every morning on the way to work… while listening to their ‘Christian’ radio station broadcasting the latest fake news headline about the Pope while they gnash their teeth at the sound of his name.

Coincidence how all these people believe Jesus had ‘siblings’ isn’t it? If Jesus had brothers and sisters, then that erases us from the family tree. Nay. Let them do that to themselves as they follow the Bad people.

Let us not follow Christ and His Church, and adore his Mother - the Perpetual Virgin.
 
I showed you in more than one verse, where in scripture to find these answers and you keep insisting that it’s not true. In fact, I even typed some of the scripture to where it SPELLS out in words that Jesus has brothers and sister. We need to focus on the Bible, it is the word of God. It is the ONLY TRUTH that we have in this world.
  1. The Greek does have a translation for cousin. It states RELATIVE. It is in my NIV Bible AND my catholic Bible.
  2. There is NO WHERE in scripture that says that Mary had only one child. But there are numerous verses that I had showed you stating that she had other children/sons… After Jesus was born she and Joseph had relations. They were married.
  3. Now as far as Jewish culture goes younger siblings not speaking to older siblings. If you read you will see that Jesus DID NOT follow Jewish law. That’s ONE OF the reasons why the Pharisees and Sadducees wanting him dead. He was going AGAINST their tradition. What did Jesus say about tradition? Do not invalidate the word of God for the sake of tradition!
  4. True the word trinity in not in the Bible, but it describes the trinity. The Church gave it the name trinity. Many of words are not in the Bible. The word RAPTURE is not in the Bible either. But it describes it and it’s going to happen.
  5. Peter’s name is first ONLY because Jesus approached Peter and Andrew first. The other apostles describe John as the apostle that Jesus loved. Does that mean he was the leader, no! Does that mean Jesus only loved John, no! We can’t read into it or assume. We have to go by what it EXACTLY SAYS.
Now I have some questions for you?
  1. If Peter was the so call alleged Pope. Than how how come in scripture it describes James the brother of Jesus making the FINAL decisions and holding order in the council?
  2. How come there is no where in scripture Peter is being granted the title of leader.
  3. How come it is James writing the letter to the council with the final decision?
  4. Where in the Bible is there EVIDENCE that Peter was EVER in Rome?
  5. If Jesus didn’t have brothers or sister how come in the Bible the names that I gave you in the last E-mail they keep calling them HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS. Not relatives, nor cousin, nor kinsmen?
  6. How come when the Gospels end Peter is in Jerusalem and not in Rome where the roman catholic church was started?
    Last question and this is the MOST important question of them all
  7. How does a person get to Heaven?
    I will be going down to Florida, so I won’t be able to respond back right away. I will respond upon my return. Have a good 1-2 weeks. Be safe and God Bless.
 
I hope you have a safe and fruitful trip.

I know you are frustrates how can I be so dumb it is in my translation of the bible. But that is the problem it is a translation.
You quote Matthew 13:55-56 the Dewey and KJV translates it as brethren. Mark 6:3 states that Jesus is the son of Mary not a son of Mary. There is nowhere in scripture that names any other child of Mary. The scripture is quoting people and what they say about Jesus. The people being quoted had not word for cousin. They would have said brother because all relative that were closely linked were called brothers. I am sure you are aware that the culture of the time families were different from what we consider family. Today a family is mother father and children but that culture the family was not only Mom, Dad, and Kids but uncles, aunts, cousins and grandparents. All referred to as brother and sisters. So when the scripture talks of brother and sister it has a broader meaning than what we have today. Strong’s defines the word adelphos {ad-el-fos’} from 1 (as a connective particle) and delphos(which is the Greek word used and which is being translated as 1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother 2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman 3) any fellow or man 4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection 5) an associate in employment or office 6) brethren in Christ 6a) his brothers by blood 6b) all men 6c) apostles 6d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place. Abraham and Lot were uncle and nephew. In the original transaltion, they are said to be brothers yet some translators who have the word nephew in their language put in their translation nephew even though Araham and Lot would not have known the word. Consider that the authors themselves would have been more familiar with relatives as brothers than with the Greek word of cousin.
What I cannot understand is how anyone would think Joseph who was a just man would approach that which contained God is amazing to me. That others would occupy the Holy of Hollies dumbstruck me. That God would have half brothers is astonishing to me. There are other hints in scripture but you say that Jesus would insult His half brothers by going against the culture and giving the care of His mother, which would have no point in doing, to John. I am not quite understanding how you dismiss that in scripture the brothers treat Jesus as being younger than they are. Jesus going against tradition would not explain His relatives going against tradition or society norms Being older than Jesus they could not be children of Mary. It can be also shown that those brothers mentioned by name have other mothers.
 
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