Are Mormons Christians

[Porknpie]

This is a remarkably heated debate over a small, pedantic piece of semantics.

Dtaloni - first welcome to CAF. Second, you are thinking wrongly here. Heated? No, frankness is a better word. Second, Trying to understand the essence of who God is IS everything. It’s why we are created, to know and enter a relationship with God If you do not understand the nature of God, you can not enter a proper relationship.

It’s this type of in-group/out-group partitioning and True Scotsman-ship that turns off a lot of non-religious types.

The Truth is Truth, we are called by Jesus Christ to preach the Gospel. You are arguing with management. On the other hand, his Gospel converts many who hear it. Many however have hardened hearts…

Fundamentally, who cares what someone wants to call themselves?

This is not my personal experience. People do care, even those who are in error on faith and morals.

Our salvation isn’t dependent on a whim of language. Whether we explicitly define ourselves or someone else as Christian is not an outer manifestation of inner holiness or lack thereof. God (in all likelihood) isn’t going to judge us based on a title.

How do you believe God will judge us?

FWIW, I think Catholics and Mormons, especially in the United States, are natural cultural allies against a secular cultural hegemony.

Would this include a common fight against abortion and contraception?

Bickering like children over whether the other is “Christian enough” to be in our club is highly counterproductive.

So the Truth does not matter. Where in scripture do you get this?

Take care of your own house and let God take care of the rest.

Again, please cite from scripture where God says this. Otherwise it’s just your personal opinion.

Why are you here on CAF? If you are not interested in hearing the Truth, you could spend your time here.

 

[Porknpie]

Somethng like this?

 

[Cathoholic]

dtaloni1.

Welcome to the forums.

You stated:

This is a remarkably heated debate over a small, pedantic piece of semantics. It’s this type of in-group/out-group partitioning and True Scotsman-ship that turns off a lot of non-religious types. Fundamentally, who cares what someone wants to call themselves? Our salvation isn’t dependent on a whim of language. Whether we explicitly define ourselves or someone else as Christian is not an outer manifestation of inner holiness or lack thereof. God (in all likelihood) isn’t going to judge us based on a title.

FWIW, I think Catholics and Mormons, especially in the United States, are natural cultural allies against a secular cultural hegemony. Bickering like children over whether the other is “Christian enough” to be in our club is highly counterproductive. Take care of your own house and let God take care of the rest.

You are basically stating: “I think all this dogmatic careful or assertion of what is and is not true here is wrong.”

Then you are basically stating: “I am asserting this thesis of mine is correct and I assert it dogmatically!”

Do you see the self-contradiction here or am I mis-reading what you are saying?

 

[andrewstx]

The Catholic Church/Orthodoxy we are the group called Christian from the first century.

But have you known Orthodox Churches that reject all baptisms outside their own. Here is a quote from a Greek Orthodox Church:

I have NEVER met a “bible believing Christian” who was not baptizes and refused to do so as Christ required it. When they think they are “saved” they get baptized.

I have not only met such persons, I was one. I was taken to a Protestant sect as a child and pre-teen. I ‘got saved’ when I was 12 years old and even spent a few years as a member of the denomination without having been baptized, it was never even mentioned.

I had to change denominations to be baptized.

 

[Stephen168]

I have not only met such persons, I was one. I was taken to a Protestant sect as a child and pre-teen. I ‘got saved’ when I was 12 years old and even spent a few years as a member of the denomination without having been baptized, it was never even mentioned.

I had to change denominations to be baptized.

So you were in a protestant sect that did not baptize its membership? What did they call themselves?

 

[andrewstx]

So you were in a protestant sect that did not baptize its membership? What did they call themselves?

It was a Church of the Nazarene, and perhaps it was somewhat unique for that denomination. In recent years they have sold their church at a very low price to a rehabilitation center and meet in rented quarters.

But I never saw a single baptism of anyone there. I do remember a baby being ‘dedicated’ once there.

Their official rule book the "Nazarene manual’ recommends infant baptism by affusion. but they dedicated the baby instead. And they did have jakuzi for adult immersions, but I never saw it used. Perhaps they had plumbing problems.

 

[Stephen168]

I have NEVER met a “bible believing Christian” who was not baptizes and refused to do so as Christ required it. When they think they are “saved” they get baptized.

Their official rule book the "Nazarene manual’ recommends infant baptism by affusion. but they dedicated the baby instead. And they did have jakuzi for adult immersions, but I never saw it used. Perhaps they had plumbing problems.

So my point stands.

 

[cmodrmac]

No they are not -but they are certainly entitled to call themselves whatever they choose

Do they believe?

Christ has died
Christ has risen
Christ will come again
Christ died for our sins

if yes they are Christians-doubt they can say yes

 

[andrewstx]

No they are not -but they are certainly entitled to call themselves whatever they choose

Do they believe?

Christ has died
Christ has risen
Christ will come again
Christ died for our sins

if yes they are Christians-doubt they can say yes

I, and the Episcopal church both think it takes more than just that to be Christian.

 

[TexanKnight]

No they are not -but they are certainly entitled to call themselves whatever they choose

Do they believe?

Christ has died
Christ has risen
Christ will come again
Christ died for our sins

if yes they are Christians-doubt they can say yes

so, if I name my dog “Christ” and he dies and then somehow, his heart restarts…

naaa…never mind…you get my point…

you must believe in THE Christ…not some morphed version of him designed by a con man.

 

[SteveVH]

so, if I name my dog “Christ” and he dies and then somehow, his heart restarts…

naaa…never mind…you get my point…

you must believe in THE Christ…not some morphed version of him designed by a con man.

Exactly. It is a deception. They baptize with water and in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit also. Yet what they mean by those words is far from Christianity.

 

[kimg901]

so, if I name my dog “Christ” and he dies and then somehow, his heart restarts…

naaa…never mind…you get my point…

you must believe in THE Christ…not some morphed version of him designed by a con man.

I was going to post something but don’t feel like getting banned

 

[cmodrmac]

I really do not think so - The Episcopal Church does have the sacraments-all Episcopaleans have been baptized and most participate in the sacraments-We have a prayer book with articles of faith and a Catechism (p 845) of the Book of Common Prayer-

We believe in the principles of the Nicene Creed

so I would say Christian = Baptized believes and accepts the salvation provided by Christ- and believes Christ has died -Christ has risen and Christ will come again-

I do not believe LDS could meet these requirements

 

[kimg901]

I really do not think so - The Episcopal Church does have the sacraments-all Episcopaleans have been baptized and most participate in the sacraments-We have a prayer book with articles of faith and a Catechism (p 845) of the Book of Common Prayer-

We believe in the principles of the Nicene Creed

so I would say Christian = Baptized believes and accepts the salvation provided by Christ- and believes Christ has died -Christ has risen and Christ will come again-

I do not believe LDS could meet these requirements

Any restorationist church is in my opinion not Christian. Anyone that believes Christ has failed or that more revelation is or was needed is not Christian

 

[twopekinguys]

Ok, here is something I don’t think we’ve addressed in this thread, or any mormon thread as far as that goes.

We have established, and even a mormon prophet or two have established that they don’t worship the same Jesus that Christianity does.

My question is this. Is the devil we speak of the same? Is it the same Satan?

hhmmmmmmm

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

The Christian Gospel

1. 
   *]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoev-
   er believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16) And
   if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
   (Romans 11:6)
   *]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where
   sin abounded, grace did much more abound (Romans 5:20). There-
   fore it is of faith, that it might be by grace (Romans 4:16).
   *]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: It is
   the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his
   workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath
   before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10).
   *]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
   (Romans 3:24). Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but accord-
   ing to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of
   the Holy Ghost. (Titus 3:5)
   *]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe
   in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
   (Romans 10:9)
   
   The Mormon Gospel
   
   1. 
      *]Grace consists of God’s gift to His children wherein He gave His Only Begotten
      Son that whosoever would believe in Him and comply with His laws and ordinan-
      ces would have everlasting life. (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 353-354).
      
      *]Grace is granted to men proportionately as they conform to the standards of
      personal righteousness that are part of the gospel plan. (Bruce R. McConkie,
      Mormon Doctrine, p. 339).
      *]Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodli-
      ness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your
      might, mind, and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you (Moroni 10:32, Book
      of Mormon)
      *]As with all other doctrines of salvation, justification is available because of
      the atoning sacrifice of Christ, but it becomes operative in the life of an in-
      dividual only on conditions of personal righteousness (McConkie, Mormon
      Doctrine, p. 408).
      *]Certain saved-by-grace-alone fanatics flatter their followers into believing
      they can be saved through no act other than confessing Christ with their
      lips (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 287).
      
      Man not saved by grace alone
      12th LDS **President **Spencer W. Kimball -" One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan
      and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the
      grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is
      needed for salvation. "
      • (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 206).
        **Salvation by grace is a lie **
        10th **President **Joseph Fielding Smith -“One of the most pernicious doctrines ever advocated by
        man, is the doctrine of ‘justification by faith alone,’ which
        has entered into, the hearts of millions since the days of
        the so-called ‘reformation’”
      • (The Restoration of All Things, p.192).
        **The blood of Christ is insufficient **
        10th **President **Joseph Fielding Smith -“But man may commit certain grievous sins — according to his light and
        knowledge – that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of
        Christ. If then he would be saved, he must make sacrifice of his Own life
        to atone – so far as in his power lies – for that sin, for the blood of Christ
        alone under certain circumstances will not avail”
      • (Doctrines of Salvation 1:134).
        Houston, we have a problem!

 

[Kelfa28]

For me…the ultimate litmus test to determine if anyone can be considered Christian is where they stand on the Nicene Creed.

If you agree with every single line of the Nicene Creed (protestants believe that the “catholic” in “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” is a lower case “c” and not upper case) then you are a Christian.

If you don’t then you are not a Christian. End of story.

 

[twopekinguys]

For me…the ultimate litmus test to determine if anyone can be considered Christian is where they stand on the Nicene Creed.

If you agree with every single line of the Nicene Creed (protestants believe that the “catholic” in “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” is a lower case “c” and not upper case) then you are a Christian.

If you don’t then you are not a Christian. End of story.

It is a “small” c. Check out the USCCB website here.

I also double checked it in our Missal, and it is a “small” c there also.

I guess us Catholics and Protestants are closer than originally thought.

 

[Miriam1947]

Ok, here is something I don’t think we’ve addressed in this thread, or any mormon thread as far as that goes.

We have established, and even a mormon prophet or two have established that they don’t worship the same Jesus that Christianity does.

My question is this. Is the devil we speak of the same? Is it the same Satan?

hhmmmmmmm

I don’t know if it is the same Satan. On exmormon boards he is often called Stan.

 

[kimg901]

Ok, here is something I don’t think we’ve addressed in this thread, or any mormon thread as far as that goes.

We have established, and even a mormon prophet or two have established that they don’t worship the same Jesus that Christianity does.

My question is this. Is the devil we speak of the same? Is it the same Satan?

hhmmmmmmm

None of what we speak of is the same Two. If we did they would be catholics. Their doctrine is ever changing to the times and Christ is just another failure like their prophets.