afraid to address this, huh?Jesus ALLOWED Himself to be crucified…and He made no promise He would NOT be crucified. Yet another horrible example.
Your Church is only true if Jesus was a dishonest, weak, cruel God.
The prophecy was not necessarily of the ‘downfall of Israel’ (your words, not mine), but of the fulfillment of the Promise of a Savior to be sent by God, that was made to Abraham. Unfortunately, the fulfillment of that Promise, Jesus Christ, was rejected by most of those who were supposed to be waiting for Him. Because they had lost their true faith, they did not recognize the signs of His coming when they happened. Only a very few that were truly faithful did.Excellent observation! Amos was prophesying of the downfall of Israel. Israel had always been the source of revelation of God to man, “Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” (Amos 3:7) It is clear, as you pointed out, that this downfall would happen shortly after the death of Christ. (Amos 8:10)
When we ‘put on Christ’ through Baptism, we do become Abraham’s seed and heirs of the Promise, but we do not become part of the Old Covenant in any way. Instead, we become members of the New Covenant of Christ. We are not bound by the Old Law. The New Covenant is based entirely on Christ, so the laws are also different. We are now adopted sons and daughters of God and heirs of Heaven.Jesus established the true church of Israel with a foundation of apostles and prophets that could guide the church by revelation from God. We enter the Church by repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Chirst for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:36) This is the new coventant that had been promised to the house of Israel. (Jer. 31:31-34) When we enter this covenant by baptism we “put on Christ” and we also take part in the ancient Abrahamic covenant:
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal. 3:26-29)
The Abrahamic covenant was passed down through Isaac and Jacob (Israel) and the twelve sons of Israel. The downfall of Israel prophesyed by Amos included the removal of revelation from Israel and therefore the entire world. We learn from Amos 8:11 that the absence of revelation was not a good or normal situation. It was a famine sent from God!
You are exactly right! There are more than one definition of a Christian and we are often talking about different definitions. Here are three definitions of a Christian:should not we first define the word christian before evaluating whether or not a particular faith tradition fits that definition.
Jesus ALLOWED Himself to be crucified…and He made no promise He would NOT be crucified. Yet another horrible example.You are exactly right! There are more than one definition of a Christian and we are often talking about different definitions. Here are three definitions of a Christian:
Mormons fit this definition. They did not write this definition, it is part of the English Language. Many Mormons don’t know there is any other definition and therefore don’t understand why some do not considered them to be Christian.
- The dictionary definition: “Christian - A person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ, or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus.”
- The Trinitarian definition: Those who believe in the triune God as described in the Nicene creed. This is the official definition of “Christian” of the Catholic Church and many of the protestant churches. This is OK. Mormons do not believe in the triune God and therefore when they understand the trinitarian definition, they will agree they are not trinitarian Christians.
- The Biblical definition: This definition is put together using three verses from the Bible. The first tells us that a Christian is a disciple of Christ: “And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch”. (Acts 11:26). The other verses tells us how we can know a disciple of Christ in the words of Jesus Himself: “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”. (John 13:34-35)
That is not true because Mormons don’t feel the need to exclude others from the definition of Christian.the mormon definition of christian should read that, “christians are those who can only know Jesus Christ through the teachings of joseph smith”.
As Mormons do:for those others, the definition of christian reads that, “christians are those who put their faith in Jesus Christ as their sole mediator between God and man”.
Joseph Smith and the modern apostles and prophets are important to our salvation in the same way that the Pope and the creeds of the Catholic church are important to your salvation.it is a very important distinction and to be truthful it must be acknowledged.
mormons are the only christians who need someone besides Jesus Christ to be saved.
Christianity includes all three definitions. At its beginning Mormonism did too, until Joseph Smith lead his people into apostasy in 1844.You are exactly right! There are more than one definition of a Christian and we are often talking about different definitions. Here are three definitions of a Christian:
Mormons fit this definition. They did not write this definition, it is part of the English Language. Many Mormons don’t know there is any other definition and therefore don’t understand why some do not considered them to be Christian.
- The dictionary definition: “Christian - A person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ, or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus.”
- The Trinitarian definition: Those who believe in the triune God as described in the Nicene creed. This is the official definition of “Christian” of the Catholic Church and many of the protestant churches. This is OK. Mormons do not believe in the triune God and therefore when they understand the trinitarian definition, they will agree they are not trinitarian Christians.
- The Biblical definition: This definition is put together using three verses from the Bible. The first tells us that a Christian is a disciple of Christ: “And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch”. (Acts 11:26). The other verses tells us how we can know a disciple of Christ in the words of Jesus Himself: “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”. (John 13:34-35)
Yes. LDS Prophets and the Pope are very dissimilar! In fact, that’s one of the “selling” points of the LDS Church: “We have a modern day prophet, seer, and revelator!” There’s an idea that more truth is being revealed to LDS prophets but not so to Popes. Here’s a nice little explanation (from a member of the LDS Church) of the differences.That is not true because Mormons don’t feel the need to exclude others from the definition of Christian.
As Mormons do:
“Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile
yourselves to the will of God, and not to the
will of the devil and the flesh; and remember,
after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only
in and through the grace of God that ye are
saved.” (2 Nephi 10:24)
Joseph Smith and the modern apostles and prophets are important to our salvation in the same way that the Pope and the creeds of the Catholic church are important to your salvation.
That is true. Without Joseph Smith we might not know that the apostles led the church and understood the nature of Christ by revelation:“Joseph Smith and the modern apostles and prophets are important to our salvation in the same way that the Pope and the creeds of the Catholic church are important to your salvation.”
this is not an accurate statement. to the RCC, the Pope and the creeds are important because they ensure that we are hearing the same gospel preached by Jesus to His apostles and by His apostles to their successors and to us.
joseph smith is important to the mormons because without him they could not know that the gospel preached by the RCC is not the gospel handed down by Jesus to the apostles and by the apostles to their successors and to us.
If Contantine and the bishops at Nicea were not men, what were they?"RCCs do not need a man to correct the gospel given by Jesus to the apostles and by the apostles to their successors and to us.
Only because the true knowledge of Christ was restored to the earth by the Prophet Joseph Smith.salvation comes to mormons through joseph smith…
Yes, only because of the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for all of us. He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him:that is not true for other followers of Jesus Christ. for them, salvation comes through the Lord’s own efforts, among which are the Church He started and sustains.
Who are you asserting doesn’t know this?That is true. Without Joseph Smith we might not know that the apostles led the church and understood the nature of Christ by revelation:
Yes, the mystery of our Salvation was not known in the ages before Christ. But Jesus Christ was revealed to us and is an unceasing and continuous revelation.“How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.” (Eph. 3:3-5)
Verse 11 provides a litany of gifts of the Holy Spirit. Verse 12 says these gifts are for the purpose of strengthening the holy ones (baptized) and building the Church. Verse 13 indicates these gifts and their purpose will continue until all come to know of Jesus Christ and are united in Him.And, that the apostles were given to the church “Until we all come in the unity of the faith, and of knowledge of the Son of God.”(Eph. 4:13)
If Contantine and the bishops at Nicea were not men, what were they?
What is your point here?“After the conversion of Constantine, things changed. Now it was possible to invoke the authority of the state to settle a theological question. The Empire had a vested interest in the unity of the church, which Constantine hoped would become the ‘cement of the Empire’ Thus, the state soon began to use its power to force theological agreement on Christians.” [Justo L. Gonzalez, The Story of Christianity, Volume 1: The Early Church to the Dawn of the Reformation (New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1984), p.157.]
Interesting how he is copying from Ephesians 2 the main thought…That is not true because Mormons don’t feel the need to exclude others from the definition of Christian.
As Mormons do:
“Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile
yourselves to the will of God, and not to the
will of the devil and the flesh; and remember,
after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only
in and through the grace of God that ye are
saved.” (2 Nephi 10:24)
Oh Lord!!! So did God fail? If you say no then your church is based on deceit and lies. Why would God start a church only for it to fail Oly? And who led the church after the Apostles died? The Holy Spirit. I just don’t understand why Mormons cant see they are being led astray. I will truly pray for all of you.Was Jesus weak because He was crucified? Did God fail because the apostles were killed who were the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:19-21) and who led the Church by revelation? (Eph. 3:3-5) No! Of course not. God did what the Prophet Amos said God would do:
“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.” (Amos 8:11-12).
Constantine was an Arian and the Bishops were followers of the teachings of Christ and The Twelve. The Bishops received their authority through Apostolic Succession and the laying on of hands from Christ.If Contantine and the bishops at Nicea were not men, what were they?