Are Mormons considered Christians?

[Don_Ruggero]

Anyone who believes something other than the Doctrine and Dogma of the Church Christ established, the Catholic Church, believes heresy. All protestants believe heresy.

I know of no sense in which Mormons could be considered Protestants. They are, if nothing else, sui generis.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I suppose it is also “their place” to appropriate the names and beliefs of established bodies and make claims about the correctness of those beliefs?

How is this different from identity theft?

You have no problem taking a name that others have long (1800 years) called and identified themselves by and appropriating it by claiming the name and identity, with equal or greater merit, belongs to you?

You would have no problem with me taking your name, identifying as you and doing all kinds of things in your name?

I am a Catholic priest and moreover I belong to the Latin rite. That dictates what is orthodox theology and orthodox practice…but it does not prevent me from addressing the Orthodox as “Orthodox” in spite of the fact that, from my theological perspective as a Roman, they hold positions that are I cannot judge to be orthodox…with the profoundest of love and respect to my Orthodox brothers and sisters who may read this post.

Similarly I am not prevented me from using the term “Anglo-Catholic” when I am addressing an Anglican who is, in fact, Anglo-Catholic.

Aspects of Mormon theology are extremely problematic for me as a Catholic theologian. I do not, however, question that Mormons are – according to their best knowledge and understanding – committed to Jesus Christ. I have far too much practical experience with them to contest that.

I find the analogy of identity theft beyond mystifying. We do not hold a copyright. Everyone who is baptised who prays the Nicene Creed rightly says “I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.”

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I know of no sense in which Mormons could be considered Protestants. They are, if nothing else, sui generis.

No, they are not Protestants. Sometimes I think, after reading post after post here, that so many of people here consider anyone who is not Catholic, they must be a Protestant. Ah friends, the Christian world is much, much larger than that.

Sui generis? Let me ponder that. I have a friend - a scholar of contemporary religions - who thinks Mormons should be considered the Fourth Monotheistic Religion. The jury is still out on that one. At least for me.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

No, they are not Protestants. Sometimes I think, after reading post after post here, that so many of people here consider anyone who is not Catholic, they must be a Protestant. Ah friends, the Christian world is much, much larger than that.

Sui generis? Let me ponder that. I have a friend - a scholar of contemporary religions - who thinks Mormons should be considered the Fourth Monotheistic Religion. The jury is still out on that one. At least for me.

It was my way of saying that they are really their own thing.

 

[Peter_Plato]

I find the analogy of identity theft beyond mystifying. We do not hold a copyright. Everyone who is baptised who prays the Nicene Creed rightly says “I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.”

I suppose it isn’t identity theft if the one whose identity is being appropriated says nothing or doesn’t make an issue.

But, of course, this is why the word “Christian” is so time-worn as to be meaningless. Its referent could be anyone and anything because the identity was never protected. Or as you say a copyright was not held.

I also suppose Jesus will have something to say about those who do and say things in his name. Perhaps the solution is not to make any claims with regard to being a Christian (i.e., a follower of Christ) simply because most who claim to be aren’t.

The issue of credal or “I believe” statements is quite apart from the word “Christian,” which was first taken to mean a follower of Christ - a doer rather than a believer.

 

[eddie_too]

while their teachings do not come from Jesus, for the most part, they do honor Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

do they understand the teachings of Jesus and accept the divine mysteries He revealed to mankind? they do not. still, they honor Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

they sure do account for some interesting inter-faith discussions!!!

as with all non-catholics, we accept that their, the Mormon’s, fate lies in the hands of God. we cannot restrict God’s saving grace and infinite mercy, at least in a doctrinal sense. at the same time, we can be certain that their beliefs are not the same as those taught us by Jesus that we have received through the apostles and their successors.

 

[Horton]

No, they are not Protestants. Sometimes I think, after reading post after post here, that so many of people here consider anyone who is not Catholic, they must be a Protestant. Ah friends, the Christian world is much, much larger than that.

Sui generis? Let me ponder that. **I have a friend - a scholar of contemporary religions - who thinks Mormons should be considered the Fourth Monotheistic Religion. **The jury is still out on that one. At least for me.

*Bolding mine

How can the LDS be considered monotheistic when the certainly believe in more than one god? Our God, the God of Christian theology, does not mean the same to the LDS.

lds.org/topics/god-the-father?lang=eng
We are all literally children of God, spiritually begotten in the premortal life. As His children, we can be assured that we have divine, eternal potential and that He will help us in our sincere efforts to reach that potential.

eom.byu.edu/index.php/Christology
Latter-day Saint doctrine can be understood to have appreciation for Christ and applications for man that go beyond traditional Christology. It is LDS teaching that all the Father’s children possess the potential to strive toward the same godhood that the Godhead already has; because in their humanity there is a divinity that is progressing and growing according to the faith, intelligence, and love that abound in their souls. Like the attribute of perfection, divinity is not a static absolute but a dynamic progression (see Eternal Progression).

 

[ComplineSanFran]

How can the LDS be considered monotheistic when the certainly believe in more than one god? Our God, the God of Christian theology, does not mean the same to the LDS.

How can you know that, since humankind can only know or understand God in a very limited way. Every tradition attempts to speak of God in ways that are unique to them, yet we call God God and we recognize the Divine in other faiths. If we see the historical continuity, that is one way of saying ‘That is our God too.’ Or we may see God in attributes. Or in the miracles. Each is one piece of God’s revelation to us.

 

[Horton]

How can you know that, since humankind can only know or understand God in a very limited way. Every tradition attempts to speak of God in ways that are unique to them, yet we call God God and we recognize the Divine in other faiths. If we see the historical continuity, that is one way of saying ‘That is our God too.’ Or we may see God in attributes. Or in the miracles. Each is one piece of God’s revelation to us.

I can form an opinion based on their own writings. Both sites I quoted from are LDS sites and given the tone of the full pieces, written for the LDS or those investigating the LDS. (Investigators are what the LDS call those seeking information about becoming LDS).

I can say a Jewish person may have christian attributes or a Muslim acts in a christian manner but that does not make either one a Christian. How about an atheist? An atheist can have christian behavior but the behavior does not make one Christian. Being a follower of Christ, the true Christ, makes one a Christian. The LDS have a different view of who Jesus Christ is and that keeps them from being a Christian faith.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I can form an opinion based on their own writings. Both sites I quoted from are LDS sites and given the tone of the full pieces, written for the LDS or those investigating the LDS. (Investigators are what the LDS call those seeking information about becoming LDS).

I can say a Jewish person may have christian attributes or a Muslim acts in a christian manner but that does not make either one a Christian. How about an atheist? An atheist can have christian behavior but the behavior does not make one Christian. Being a follower of Christ, the true Christ, makes one a Christian. The LDS have a different view of who Jesus Christ is and that keeps them from being a Christian faith.

You are talking apples and oranges - action or behavior defining a Christian (Lord have mercy on us all if my actions tell the world I am a Christian. It would be wonderful if they DID, but I tend to mess that part up a lot). And then you say that LDS have a different view of Jesus. Well, most Christians have varying concepts of Jesus. True, LDS are pretty outside the box, but THEY recognize Jesus and call Jesus Lord, and that self-definition makes them followers of Christ.

 

[Horton]

You are talking apples and oranges - action or behavior defining a Christian (Lord have mercy on us all if my actions tell the world I am a Christian. It would be wonderful if they DID, but I tend to mess that part up a lot). And then you say that LDS have a different view of Jesus. Well, most Christians have varying concepts of Jesus. True, LDS are pretty outside the box, but THEY recognize Jesus and call Jesus Lord, and that self-definition makes them followers of Christ.

Your point on Christian behavior not defining a Christian is a point I’ve tried to make. We do agree there

I think we may have to agree to disagree on the second point. You and I may not be so far apart on our faith traditions view of Jesus Christ as many Protestant faith traditions are not very different from a Catholic view of Jesus. The LDS, however, are so outside the box in their true identification of Jesus they can not be called Christ followers. Do they follow a “Christ”? Yes, Joseph Smith’s version of a christ is very far from the Christ Christians follow.

In recent years, say the last 20-30 or so, the LDS have worked very hard to be seen similar to mainstream protestant faiths. As the information age has come to fruition and the truth can be found easily the LDS have had to make adjustments, developing doctrine so to speak. It’s somewhat difficult to find the actual meat of their theology when doing a simple online search. Mainly you find these superficial pieces filled with fluff about who & what they are.

religionfacts.com/mormonism/beliefs (probably not an approved LDS site)
*God, the Heavenly Father - Mormonism is unique, however, in its belief that God has a physical body.

Jesus Christ - Mormons do not agree with mainstream Christians that Jesus is the eternal Word of God or God himself.

Holy Spirit - Mormonism departs from mainstream Christianity in teaching that the Holy Spirit is a “one in purpose with the Father and the Son, but is a separate being” rather than an aspect of God or part of a Trinity.*

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Your point on Christian behavior not defining a Christian is a point I’ve tried to make. We do agree there

I think we may have to agree to disagree on the second point. You and I may not be so far apart on our faith traditions view of Jesus Christ as many Protestant faith traditions are not very different from a Catholic view of Jesus. The LDS, however, are so outside the box in their true identification of Jesus they can not be called Christ followers. Do they follow a “Christ”? Yes, Joseph Smith’s version of a christ is very far from the Christ Christians follow.

In recent years, say the last 20-30 or so, the LDS have worked very hard to be seen similar to mainstream protestant faiths. As the information age has come to fruition and the truth can be found easily the LDS have had to make adjustments, developing doctrine so to speak. It’s somewhat difficult to find the actual meat of their theology when doing a simple online search. Mainly you find these superficial pieces filled with fluff about who & what they are.

religionfacts.com/mormonism/beliefs (probably not an approved LDS site)
*God, the Heavenly Father - Mormonism is unique, however, in its belief that God has a physical body.

Jesus Christ - Mormons do not agree with mainstream Christians that Jesus is the eternal Word of God or God himself.

Holy Spirit - Mormonism departs from mainstream Christianity in teaching that the Holy Spirit is a “one in purpose with the Father and the Son, but is a separate being” rather than an aspect of God or part of a Trinity.*

Glad we agree on the first point. And as to the second one, I do think the jury is out on where Mormons belong in the study and classification of religions. Time will ultimately tell. Are they in a category by themselves? A forth monotheistic religion? Within and yet apart from historical Christianity?

For now, you can say two things. One is that Mormons self-define as Christians. And two, most mainstream Christians do not recognize their baptism.

Their theology is unique and very much outside the box. However, it is what they believe, and perhaps Jews in the first century probably said the same thing about the new group of Christ-followers.

 

[Marie5890]

Two questions:

1. Are Mormans Christian?
2. Do they consider themselves Christian?

IGotQuestions,

What criteria do you want used to determine what Christian means?

 

[Peter_Plato]

It’s done all the time. Every branch of Christianity that developed, for instance, in the Great Awakenings, did so. It isn’t theft; it is how our tradition creates branches.

And as far as usurping a history (my words, not yours), I would imagine Jews have a few things to say about that insofar as Christianity took over not only history but Sacred Texts.
We did a bit of re-working there, don’t you think?

Yes, but the Church does not claim to be Israel, Jewish or Judaic. New wine, new skins.

Your whole argument depends entirely upon the presumption that there is no core truth in Christianity that needs to be protected or defended from others who would misappropriate or alter it. As far as you are concerned, anything can be added or changed without substantially making Christianity different because it has no real substance to it to begin with.

Sorry, what is required is for you to better grasp what the essential truths of Christianity are and then weigh whether altering those truths substantially changes the essence of it. I submit that you don’t get what Christianity is to begin with so you are not troubled by alternate presentations or depictions of it.

What would you say is the “essence” of Christianity, then?

 

[drac16]

Why is it “moot?”

Would it be “moot” to hear, say, what Jesus or the Apostles would say about whether Mormons are Christian?

What does it mean to be “Christian,” according to you?

Merely making a claim to be “Christian” reduces every other voice to silence? Doesn’t that simply empty the word “Christian” of all possible meaning?

You do understand that in LDS theology, every god (including Jesus and the Father) were once human who essentially made themselves into gods? You do understand that any Mormon believer can become a god and populate planets somewhere in the universe?

You do understand that the basic Trinitarian doctrines (three Persons in one God) of Christianity from its very beginning are denied by the Mormon church?

Cheers!

 

[Miriam1947]

No, they are not Protestants. Sometimes I think, after reading post after post here, that so many of people here consider anyone who is not Catholic, they must be a Protestant. Ah friends, the Christian world is much, much larger than that.

Sui generis? Let me ponder that. I have a friend - a scholar of contemporary religions - who thinks Mormons should be considered the Fourth Monotheistic Religion. The jury is still out on that one. At least for me.

Mormons should be considered the Fourth Monotheistic Religion? How is that possible since they believe in more than one god? They believe that they themselves can become gods. Doesn’t monothesim mean one God?

 

[Horton]

Mormons should be considered the Fourth Monotheistic Religion? How is that possible since they believe in more than one god? They believe that they themselves can become gods. Doesn’t monothesim mean one God?

They do believe they can become gods. If anything they would be polytheistic.

 

[kimg901]

My reply to the OP is you do some research on the subject. Look at what they teach and what past presidents of the lds faith have said regarding God, Jesus and other things. From there you can get a feel as to whether you think they are Christian or not. Just look at some of the older threads here and you will see.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

I’d agree with everyone else here.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has some pretty odd doctrines that wouldn’t fit into OUR definition of “Christian.” According to them, they are Christian. As for us, we say that Mormon baptisms are entirely invalid since baptism must be done using the Trinitarian formula. In which Mormon baptisms do not.

Personally, I take issue with the notion that Mormons are not Christians. As far as I am concerned, the term “Christian” is generic; anyone who follows Jesus Christ is by definition a Christian. Period.

There are a lot of fundamentalist types out there who do not consider Catholics to be Christians because Catholics do not worship “their way.” So by the same token, the CC should not be telling the Mormons that they are not Christians because of minute technicalities of different beliefs.

You think Mormons have some odd doctrines? Think about Catholics:

Catholics believe that Mary was conceived free of Original Sin.
Catholics believe that Mary was impregnated by divine intervention.
Catholics believe that when they take communion, they are consuming the actual - albeit transubstantiated - body and blood of Christ.
Catholics believe that the Pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals.
Catholics believe in a mystical place called Purgatory.
Catholics pray to others (Mary, the Holy Spirit, the Saints, etc.); not just to God.
Catholics pray to statues (we don’t really, but people think we do).

Those Catholics are rather odd, aren’t they?

Some say Mormons “don’t pray to the same Jesus Christ we do.” Gee. I was not aware that there was more than one Jesus Christ.

 

[Horton]

Personally, I take issue with the notion that Mormons are not Christians. As far as I am concerned, the term “Christian” is generic; anyone who follows Jesus Christ is by definition a Christian. Period.

There are a lot of fundamentalist types out there who do not consider Catholics to be Christians because Catholics do not worship “their way.” So by the same token, the CC should not be telling the Mormons that they are not Christians because of minute technicalities of different beliefs.

You think Mormons have some odd doctrines? Think about Catholics:

Catholics believe that Mary was conceived free of Original Sin.
Catholics believe that Mary was impregnated by divine intervention.
Catholics believe that when they take communion, they are consuming the actual - albeit transubstantiated - body and blood of Christ.
Catholics believe that the Pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals.
Catholics believe in a mystical place called Purgatory.
Catholics pray to others (Mary, the Holy Spirit, the Saints, etc.); not just to God.
Catholics pray to statues (we don’t really, but people think we do).

Those Catholics are rather odd, aren’t they?

Some say Mormons “don’t pray to the same Jesus Christ we do.” Gee. I was not aware that there was more than one Jesus Christ.

The thing about the “strange” beliefs of the Catholic Church is all of them are backed by biblical truth, Tradition, tradition, and the magisterium. I don’t believe anyone on this thread said there is more than one Jesus Christ, just that the Christian understanding of Jesus Christ is different than the LDS understanding.